Night Vision  Best LRF for use with thermal?

HaroldCoulter

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If you had a rifle, say set up with the trijicon MKIII 35mm, what are the options as far as laser range finders go? I know the silencer co radius, but any other/better options? What works for ya'll?

*I also realize the trijicon MKIIIs have a stadiametric rangefinder*
 

Eliteuas

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If you had a rifle, say set up with the trijicon MKIII 35mm, what are the options as far as laser range finders go? I know the silencer co radius, but any other/better options? What works for ya'll?

*I also realize the trijicon MKIIIs have a stadiametric rangefinder*
Radius is the only route unless you wanna dish out 4.5-6 k on a rangefinder...
 

Eliteuas

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haha well I definitely don't, but what are the 4.5-6k options out of curiosity? A man can dream can't he?
raptar and I think the other one is called the vampire if I remember correctly... both are rifle mounted. Both function very well as does the radius... the major difference is the price. I'm sure wig will chime in soon enough and shed some light on the differences as he's owned all three. Me personally I run a radius. Post a WTB ad in the exchange.. someone will have one and part with it for the the right price.
Regards
Felipe
 
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Eliteuas

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I wonder why SiCo discontinued the Radius?
From what I heard it was not as popular initially as they had hoped/expected and when they failed to sell at 1k they discontinued them and put a sale on the remaining units. Nowadays they are worth their weight in gold (not literally, but figuratively speaking) as for night vision hunting or thermal hunting nothing comes close in price... and their performance is top notch.
Regards
Felipe
 
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wigwamitus

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Sorry, missed this thread yesterday. I have 2 radiae and one VSO ("Vampire") and have also had a RAPTAR.

All of them work fine as range finders. In fact, that's why I sold the RAPTAR as it didn't seem to offer any benefit over the Radius and yet cost considerably more.

==
As to using with a Trijicon Mk2/3 thermal (or any thermal) ... here's my "night spotter carbine" ... i.e. a night spotter with a barrel.

That's a mk3 60mm on top ...

30955549347_97d184fae5_k.jpg


And the Radius is on the 9 o'clock ...

44078236160_7d73c04d35_k.jpg


Here's the steps I used to zero the radius to the thermal reticle


==
01 - Setup 5.56(10.3) on RRS tripod
02 - Setup 7.62(22) on Manfrotto tripod just to the right of the 5.56(10.3)
03 - Aim reticle of mk3 60mm on 5.56(10.3) at center of mineral feeder at 415yds.
04 - With PVS-14 on rear of NF scope, aim center of 7.62(22) reticle at the mineral feeder.
05 - Turn on the radius aiming laser.
06 - Adjust the radius aiming laser so it is pointed at the mineral feeder, use helmet mounted 14 to get into the ball park.
07 - Keep checking the 5.56(10.3) to make sure the center of the thermal reticle is aimed at the center of the mineral feeder.
08 - Fine tune the Radius on the 5.56(10.3) by checking on the 7.62(22) with the 14 behind.
09 - Once the Radius on the 5.56(10.3) is zeroed, test several known distance targets. Aim the 5.56(10.3) thermal reticle at the target and check the range. Repeat steps 07, 08 and 09 if needed
==

This ^^ is the one person process ... there are other ways to do it, but this way works well with one person.
 
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Killswitch Engage

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or you could put your thermal cross hair on a target at 100yd. zero the visible laser to the mechanical off set which is around 2.7" in in whatever direction you have the laser mounted from center bore. when the radius is oriented at 3/9 oclock like that the beam divergence isnt as accurate anyhow due to its shape so you have a bit of vertical challenges. when the laser is mounted at 3/9 and you range something close to ground level such as an animal your beam ends up doing this > where part of it catches ground and the animal. it can give a false reading just be aware of that. pay attention to the near/far readings on the display and ask yourself if it makes sense when you ping.
 
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HaroldCoulter

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Sorry, missed this thread yesterday. I have 2 radiae and one VSO ("Vampire") and have also had a RAPTAR.

All of them work fine as range finders. In fact, that's why I sold the RAPTAR as it didn't seem to offer any benefit over the Radius and yet cost considerably more.

==
As to using with a Trijicon Mk2/3 thermal (or any thermal) ... here's my "night spotter carbine" ... i.e. a night spotter with a barrel.

That's a mk3 60mm on top ...

30955549347_97d184fae5_k.jpg


And the Radius is on the 9 o'clock ...

44078236160_7d73c04d35_k.jpg


Here's the steps I used to zero the radius to the thermal reticle


==
01 - Setup 5.56(10.3) on RRS tripod
02 - Setup 7.62(22) on Manfrotto tripod just to the right of the 5.56(10.3)
03 - Aim reticle of mk3 60mm on 5.56(10.3) at center of mineral feeder at 415yds.
04 - With PVS-14 on rear of NF scope, aim center of 7.62(22) reticle at the mineral feeder.
05 - Turn on the radius aiming laser.
06 - Adjust the radius aiming laser so it is pointed at the mineral feeder, use helmet mounted 14 to get into the ball park.
07 - Keep checking the 5.56(10.3) to make sure the center of the thermal reticle is aimed at the center of the mineral feeder.
08 - Fine tune the Radius on the 5.56(10.3) by checking on the 7.62(22) with the 14 behind.
09 - Once the Radius on the 5.56(10.3) is zeroed, test several known distance targets. Aim the 5.56(10.3) thermal reticle at the target and check the range. Repeat steps 07, 08 and 09 if needed
==

This ^^ is the one person process ... there are other ways to do it, but this way works well with one person.
Badass setup (y)
 
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wigwamitus

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The Wilcox RapTar has many benefits over the Radius , it has a much longer range , it has IR & visible lasers plus an integrated ballistic software , the only downside is the price

There are actually four flavors of RAPTAR:

01 - ES - Lite
02 - ES
03 - S/ES
04 - S

The ES, S/ES and S have range finding capabilities
The S/ES and S add the ballistics capabilities

==
... it has a much longer range ...

It should in theory due to the nature of the 1550nm ranging laser ... but it practice sp far in the day time, those of us posting in the "range finding" thread in this subforum, have insifficient data to validate.

Also, some of us have observed huge performance differences between day and night ranging. We are recording those experiences in the "range finding" thread.

... it has IR & visible lasers ...

Yes, but these attributes don't make RAPTARs better range finders. We're comparing the radius to the ES ... and the VSO to the S/ES ... personally I don't particularly want to use my range finder as an aiming laser or illuminator. Some people might, but I do not.

... plus an integrated ballistic software ...

Yes, the S/ES and S RAPTARs also have ballistics, like the VSO. But we are usually comparing the Radius to the ES raptar (same feature set) and the VSO to the S/ES raptar, again same feature set.

==
... the only downside is the price ...

Yes.
Comparing more apples to apples or oranges to oranges

The Radius street price vary a bit these days, but let's average as around $550 each
The RAPTAR ES street price is around $3,000

The VSO are around $4,500
The S/ES RAPTAR is around $6,000
 

deersniper

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    Can the S model raptors be set to output ballistic data in moa?
    Here's one for 4600$
    This model doesn’t have the ballistic solver .
    And to your question, I believe MOA is an option. I have to confirm with manual.
     
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    wigwamitus

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    @deersniper

    There are 4 models of RAPTAR

    01 - ES Lite - no range finder
    02 - ES - range finder only (the units we had in the Group Buy)
    03 - S/ES - Commercial version with the range finder and ballistics module
    04 - S/HP - Military version with the range finder and ballistics model and full power aiming and and illuminating lasers.

    Note units 02, 03 and 04 all have the same full power 1550nm ranging lasers.

    ==
    Per page 57 in the 15 March 2018 version of the manual I have, MOA output is a selectable option.
     
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    wigwamitus

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    Well, the Radius is a $400 to $700 range finder. It does 3,000yds consistently at night for me ... and 1,100 yds consistently in the day for me.

    Next up after that is the more rare Armasight ranger finder. I've never had one. They are supposed to be good to 2500 meters, but I'd divide that by 2 until someone we know has tested them. But that still exceeds your 1,000 yards. Those can probably be had for $1,500 - $2,000 though you'll have to hunt them down. And not sure who is supporting them these days. But then that's true for the Radiae as well.

    Next after that are the Newcom Optik M units shown price $3,000 and stated distance 3,000 meters.

    Then the Wilcox RAPTAR ES units, shown price around $4,500, though street prices are less. These have 1550nm ranging laser.

    Then the IR&D VSO units, shown price $4,500 but you would have to contact them directly in Belgium to get one. This unit has ballistics. I had one of these (see Range Finder thread for more info).

    Then the Newcom S units, $6,000 for 6,000 meters ... these have 1550nm ranging laser.

    And then the RAPTAR S/ES I think shown prices for these are around $7,500 now. With 1550nm ranging laser. This unit has ballistics.

    Those are the rifle mountables I recall off the top of my head.

    ==
    Now if you just want a handheld unit, then $2,000 will get you several options with ballistics.
     
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    wigwamitus

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    Well, save up your pennies and get either a RAPTAR or a VSO !! The 950nm VSO is $4,500 ... you might be able to negotiate. I can put you in touch with the guys in Belgium if you are serious. They are a great bunch !!! The 1550nm VSO is $7,000 and at that price, you'd probably be better off negotiating with OPtics Planet or PRG for an S/ES model.
     

    Squibbler

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    Functionality of a Sig kilo 2400 ABS with eyepiece trimmed off for size and weight savings. Add small HUD. Solid, repeatable Q.D. mount. 10 target data (yardage and drop) scrolling feature with remote. Live/lock atmospherics, ballistics, and gun profiles accessible thru Bluetooth. With Sig's price point = game changer
     

    rlsmith1

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    Reviving an old thread.

    Does anyone know of a Radius replacement in the pipeline? Seems like with technology continuing to evolve, we could get a more compact compact LRF around $1k if we didn't have to pay Wilcocks for it. Integrated LRF is probably where things are headed but a separate unit is nice in certain scenarios (CNVD, spotters, etc.)
     

    stefan73

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    From what I heard it was not as popular initially as they had hoped/expected and when they failed to sell at 1k they discontinued them and put a sale on the remaining units. Nowadays they are worth their weight in gold (not literally, but figuratively speaking) as for night vision hunting or thermal hunting nothing comes close in price... and their performance is top notch.
    Regards
    Felipe
    My opinion is their marketing was not there. But that is just me.
     
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    Pbjunkiee

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    I doubt it, after they flopped and got liquidated i doubt sico will revisit.
    That and the cost of electronic componets are through the roof, would be a bad time to try and manufacture a new one.
     

    stefan73

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    I doubt it, after they flopped and got liquidated i doubt sico will revisit.
    That and the cost of electronic componets are through the roof, would be a bad time to try and manufacture a new one.
    Bad time for manufacturers and consumers period! In three weeks time the cost of the steel for my carport more than doubled! It's crazy
     
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    rlsmith1

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    We are still seeing thermals come in cheaper and higher quality though (HALO LR, HALO X, YOTER C, HOGSTER R, etc.) so I would think rangefinders could see the same benefit
     

    wigwamitus

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    Well we just sold four Halo 50mm with integrated LRFs ... 3 sold while they were still on the truck and the 4th lasted on the shelf a few hours.
    We have four more Halo 50mm with integrated LRFs in bound. Let us know if you want to hold a place in line.
     
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    Glassaholic

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    Get a radius ! They're out there.
    Seems like a missed market opportunity, with the boom in nightshooting on the rise (lots of states offering no time limits on pigs and predators) you'd think someone would come out with a new Radius-like LRF, even if SilencerCo opened back up the molds... ahem. When does demand catch the attention of the manufacturer, or when does a manufacturer take a gamble on new kit?

    Another question, if the terrain limits do not allow for shots greater than 300 yards, is an LRF even necessary?
     
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    wigwamitus

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    ... if the terrain limits do not allow for shots greater than 300 yards, is an LRF even necessary?

    If you shoot a fast enough bullet where 300yds is less than your PBR then no. But some people shoot big bullets at slow speed, so for them, yes.
     
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    rlsmith1

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    @Glassaholic inside 300 I have no use for a LRF. The reason I haven't jumped on a Radius yet is because I know the areas I hunt pretty well and distances are rarely over 600 yds. I can usually guess pretty close based on past experiences. The LRF would give me that same capability regardless of where I find myself.

    Also, the 22 trainer at night an LRF is definitely needed. Cheap thrills with the 22's haha
     
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    stefan73

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    Well, the Radius is a $400 to $700 range finder. It does 3,000yds consistently at night for me ... and 1,100 yds consistently in the day for me.

    Next up after that is the more rare Armasight ranger finder. I've never had one. They are supposed to be good to 2500 meters, but I'd divide that by 2 until someone we know has tested them. But that still exceeds your 1,000 yards. Those can probably be had for $1,500 - $2,000 though you'll have to hunt them down. And not sure who is supporting them these days. But then that's true for the Radiae as well.

    Next after that are the Newcom Optik M units shown price $3,000 and stated distance 3,000 meters.

    Then the Wilcox RAPTAR ES units, shown price around $4,500, though street prices are less. These have 1550nm ranging laser.

    Then the IR&D VSO units, shown price $4,500 but you would have to contact them directly in Belgium to get one. This unit has ballistics. I had one of these (see Range Finder thread for more info).

    Then the Newcom S units, $6,000 for 6,000 meters ... these have 1550nm ranging laser.

    And then the RAPTAR S/ES I think shown prices for these are around $7,500 now. With 1550nm ranging laser. This unit has ballistics.

    Those are the rifle mountables I recall off the top of my head.

    ==
    Now if you just want a handheld unit, then $2,000 will get you several options with ballistics.
    So, you are saying I should test that range finder from Armasight that I bought through you? 😁

    I just realized how old that comment is you made.
     

    Pbjunkiee

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    @Glassaholic inside 300 I have no use for a LRF. The reason I haven't jumped on a Radius yet is because I know the areas I hunt pretty well and distances are rarely over 600 yds. I can usually guess pretty close based on past experiences. The LRF would give me that same capability regardless of where I find myself.

    Also, the 22 trainer at night an LRF is definitely needed. Cheap thrills with the 22's haha

    I want to buy a rpr .22 just so i can use my clip ons with it
     
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    jstokes1

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    InfiRay has one that's only available overseas... and it's unfortunate because it's a sweet unit. Pretty much an MH25 640x480, but with LRF capability. It's small too.