I'm wondering what powder would work the best for a 16" carbine length AR barrel shooting mostly 55gr FMJ. I've tried H335 with 40gr V-Max but wasn't that impressed. I felt that I had to really load them up hard and yet still didn't get the velocities I was looking for (not like Black Hills Match 40gr V-Max load). Should I use a faster burning powder?
- Thread starter johngfoster
- Start date
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
Try something faster, I have heard very good things about RL-10X with a 22" tube from a 22-250 AI. Thinking 5000 fps (yeas, 5k) with the 30gr pills.
Most likely you need something faster. Have you compared the BHM ammo over a chronograph or just basing this "feeling" on gut reaction?
Try something faster, I have heard very good things about RL-10X with a 22" tube from a 22-250 AI. Thinking 5000 fps (yeas, 5k) with the 30gr pills.
Most likely you need something faster. Have you compared the BHM ammo over a chronograph or just basing this "feeling" on gut reaction?
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
I switched to Benchmark from Varget for my AR-15 shooting 55 grain bullets and am very happy with the results.
I switched to Benchmark from Varget for my AR-15 shooting 55 grain bullets and am very happy with the results.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
I'm experimenting with Reloder-7, H335, BL-C2, H4198, and H322. Might try some pistol powders like blue dot or unique for some subsonic loads. So far BL-C2 has been giving me great results, it meters very well too. I have yet to clock the Re-7 or H335 loads, waiting for the range to open again.
Will be using Federal no. 200, Federal no. 205, and Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers in Remington/Peters, Lake City, Black Hills, Hornady, and Royal Ordnance(nato) brass.
I'm experimenting with Reloder-7, H335, BL-C2, H4198, and H322. Might try some pistol powders like blue dot or unique for some subsonic loads. So far BL-C2 has been giving me great results, it meters very well too. I have yet to clock the Re-7 or H335 loads, waiting for the range to open again.
Will be using Federal no. 200, Federal no. 205, and Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers in Remington/Peters, Lake City, Black Hills, Hornady, and Royal Ordnance(nato) brass.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
I read a caution somewhere against using 4198,something about it being too fast to reliably function the gas system,may just be an urban legend,plenty of them concerning AR's.
I usually use H335 or H322,just got a pound of 10X,I've heard (and seen)a lot of good about this powder for the AR,good plus is that it's not as pricy either.
My 204 AR liked N140,try even finding it,and the price........
I read a caution somewhere against using 4198,something about it being too fast to reliably function the gas system,may just be an urban legend,plenty of them concerning AR's.
I usually use H335 or H322,just got a pound of 10X,I've heard (and seen)a lot of good about this powder for the AR,good plus is that it's not as pricy either.
My 204 AR liked N140,try even finding it,and the price........
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
Powder choice is independant of barrel length. What gives best speed in a 24" barrel will also give the best speed in a 16" barrel.
Never saw any reason to believe any powder has an accuracy advantge based on barrel lenght. If one rifle shoots with XYZ-100 powder the next one off the same assembly line will just as likely love ABC-444, etc.
Powder choice is independant of barrel length. What gives best speed in a 24" barrel will also give the best speed in a 16" barrel.
Never saw any reason to believe any powder has an accuracy advantge based on barrel lenght. If one rifle shoots with XYZ-100 powder the next one off the same assembly line will just as likely love ABC-444, etc.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
H335 is a good powder. You do need to kick it up quite a bit to get the performance, though.
Book max on H335 is about 25 grains with a 55 grain bullet. Military M193 is more like 29 grains of the same powder. 20 years ago, the book max was 27 grains, but the lawyers have forced them to back it down.
Point is...if you work up...you'll find that there's performance to be found beyond current book max in .223. I wouldn't suggest that with other calibers, however.
H335 is a good powder. You do need to kick it up quite a bit to get the performance, though.
Book max on H335 is about 25 grains with a 55 grain bullet. Military M193 is more like 29 grains of the same powder. 20 years ago, the book max was 27 grains, but the lawyers have forced them to back it down.
Point is...if you work up...you'll find that there's performance to be found beyond current book max in .223. I wouldn't suggest that with other calibers, however.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read a caution somewhere against using 4198,something about it being too fast to reliably function the gas system,may just be an urban legend,plenty of them concerning AR's.
</div></div>
FWIW, nothing less than 20gr. of 4198 under a 62 gr. bullet will reliably cycle my piston .556 rifle, but it seems to be a perfect solution to the thing being over-gassed with a can on. 19 gr. will push them about 2500 fps.; pretty worthless beyond 200 yards but a great soft-shooting solution for stopping swarming zombies in close without alarming the neighbors.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read a caution somewhere against using 4198,something about it being too fast to reliably function the gas system,may just be an urban legend,plenty of them concerning AR's.
</div></div>
FWIW, nothing less than 20gr. of 4198 under a 62 gr. bullet will reliably cycle my piston .556 rifle, but it seems to be a perfect solution to the thing being over-gassed with a can on. 19 gr. will push them about 2500 fps.; pretty worthless beyond 200 yards but a great soft-shooting solution for stopping swarming zombies in close without alarming the neighbors.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powder choice is independant of barrel length. What gives best speed in a 24" barrel will also give the best speed in a 16" barrel.
Never saw any reason to believe any powder has an accuracy advantge based on barrel lenght. If one rifle shoots with XYZ-100 powder the next one off the same assembly line will just as likely love ABC-444, etc. </div></div>
I'm not sure I agree with you completely. I would think that a load that gives the best speed from a 26" barrel may not even be completely burned up by 16" and be spewing unburned powder out the end of a short barrel. The gas port is also even closer to the chamber in a carbine gas system. I would think that a faster burning powder would allow a more efficient burn of the load in a shorter barrel so that you get a more complete burn of the powder (redundant? sorry). The AR barrel is not like that of a bolt gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powder choice is independant of barrel length. What gives best speed in a 24" barrel will also give the best speed in a 16" barrel.
Never saw any reason to believe any powder has an accuracy advantge based on barrel lenght. If one rifle shoots with XYZ-100 powder the next one off the same assembly line will just as likely love ABC-444, etc. </div></div>
I'm not sure I agree with you completely. I would think that a load that gives the best speed from a 26" barrel may not even be completely burned up by 16" and be spewing unburned powder out the end of a short barrel. The gas port is also even closer to the chamber in a carbine gas system. I would think that a faster burning powder would allow a more efficient burn of the load in a shorter barrel so that you get a more complete burn of the powder (redundant? sorry). The AR barrel is not like that of a bolt gun.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
I personally use Varget for my AR loads (20" barrel, 69gr Sierra MKBT, LC brass) and have been very pleased. That said, I use a different setup than you.
Let me try some things out in Quickload and see what I can provide for you. Can you tell me which brand of 55gr FMJ bullet you plan on using?
I personally use Varget for my AR loads (20" barrel, 69gr Sierra MKBT, LC brass) and have been very pleased. That said, I use a different setup than you.
Let me try some things out in Quickload and see what I can provide for you. Can you tell me which brand of 55gr FMJ bullet you plan on using?
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
There is something to the rumors regarding 4198. Its not a well suited powder for 55gr fmj. I could only get the rifle to cycle when approaching near max charges with IMR 4198*. That was with a regular carbine length gas system and buffer.
*IMR 4198 and Hodgdon's 4198 are more or less equivalent but differ slightly in that the IMR powder is just slightly faster.
There is something to the rumors regarding 4198. Its not a well suited powder for 55gr fmj. I could only get the rifle to cycle when approaching near max charges with IMR 4198*. That was with a regular carbine length gas system and buffer.
*IMR 4198 and Hodgdon's 4198 are more or less equivalent but differ slightly in that the IMR powder is just slightly faster.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
Look at the pistol data in some reloading manuals. The TC/XP100 data are typically listed with a 16" barrel.
Look at the pistol data in some reloading manuals. The TC/XP100 data are typically listed with a 16" barrel.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H335 is a good powder. You do need to kick it up quite a bit to get the performance, though.
Book max on H335 is about 25 grains with a 55 grain bullet. Military M193 is more like 29 grains of the same powder. 20 years ago, the book max was 27 grains, but the lawyers have forced them to back it down.
Point is...if you work up...you'll find that there's performance to be found beyond current book max in .223. I wouldn't suggest that with other calibers, however. </div></div>
I use H335 in my 16" 6X45,27.5gr with a 65gr VMAX,Chrono's about 2950,I back it off to 27gr for hot weather,seems the H335 is temperture sensitive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H335 is a good powder. You do need to kick it up quite a bit to get the performance, though.
Book max on H335 is about 25 grains with a 55 grain bullet. Military M193 is more like 29 grains of the same powder. 20 years ago, the book max was 27 grains, but the lawyers have forced them to back it down.
Point is...if you work up...you'll find that there's performance to be found beyond current book max in .223. I wouldn't suggest that with other calibers, however. </div></div>
I use H335 in my 16" 6X45,27.5gr with a 65gr VMAX,Chrono's about 2950,I back it off to 27gr for hot weather,seems the H335 is temperture sensitive.
Re: Best powder for carbine length AR
Here is the data I was able to pull for you given these specs:
16" barrel
Hornady 55gr FMJ w can
223 Rem case
Varget powder 26.0gr
Velocity = 2898fps
Pressure = 52355psi (SAAMI max 55000psi)
Powder burn = 88%
I do see this is a compressed charge though. 109.9% fill
Here is a list of other suggested powders. Both H335 and H322 are there as we could have probably guessed.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
SF-033 fl 93.2 23.3 1.51 2908 99.7 48125 10591 0.829 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 97.7 25.7 1.67 2894 91.1 48125 11155 0.813 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 98.1 23.3 1.51 2883 94.9 48125 10737 0.812 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 92.2 23.3 1.51 2883 94.9 48125 10737 0.812 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0832 97.8 25.2 1.63 2875 95.0 48125 10608 0.813 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 95.4 22.0 1.43 2872 98.0 48125 10505 0.829 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 92.6 24.7 1.60 2871 93.6 48125 10797 0.818 ! Near Maximum !
Standard disclaimers apply with starting 10% below and working up. YMMV.
Here is the data I was able to pull for you given these specs:
16" barrel
Hornady 55gr FMJ w can
223 Rem case
Varget powder 26.0gr
Velocity = 2898fps
Pressure = 52355psi (SAAMI max 55000psi)
Powder burn = 88%
I do see this is a compressed charge though. 109.9% fill
Here is a list of other suggested powders. Both H335 and H322 are there as we could have probably guessed.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
SF-033 fl 93.2 23.3 1.51 2908 99.7 48125 10591 0.829 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 97.7 25.7 1.67 2894 91.1 48125 11155 0.813 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 98.1 23.3 1.51 2883 94.9 48125 10737 0.812 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 92.2 23.3 1.51 2883 94.9 48125 10737 0.812 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0832 97.8 25.2 1.63 2875 95.0 48125 10608 0.813 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 95.4 22.0 1.43 2872 98.0 48125 10505 0.829 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 92.6 24.7 1.60 2871 93.6 48125 10797 0.818 ! Near Maximum !
Standard disclaimers apply with starting 10% below and working up. YMMV.
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