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Best Rimfire Match elements?

Emerson0311

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Minuteman
Feb 17, 2018
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I’m looking for the things that really make midpack match shooters decide to come back and maybe bring a few match first timers. Maybe there is an MD whose match you always want to attend. Are things are stale for you in the barricade bench rest world? This is in the context of me running local matches and hoping to get a few podium capable shooters to stop buy and enjoy now and then, along with being interesting for the experienced hunters giving a match a try. I shot someone else’s blind stage field match and the experienced competitors really enjoyed the change up. Stage times, target numbers, shooting positions, rnds/stage, all on the table.

My thought is easier and harder targets/positions on the same stage. Lots of shooters close points wise in the mid pack, separated by a timed stage or 2. It fine if the 1-2 national level shooters can hit 100% in practice and 90%+ on match day. In reality, unless it’s a regional or national championship, the match is for the mid pack folks.
 
I assume you're talking about PRS type matches. Spinners are always well liked. Points for making it spin, or points for hits without making it spin. We're also working on modifying a spinner so that it moves sideways as well as forwards/backwards when hit, and building a moving target. Different sanctioning organizations have different rules which may limit creativity in stage design.
 
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I'm not totally dead set on what elements make matches enjoyable, but I have pretty strong opinions on how to eff one up. I absolutely hate the stages ( And NRL22 is notorious for this) that put the game behind the firing line. If I wanted to draw cards or move candy from one spot to the next, I'd stay home with the whole deck, a 10# bag of Skittles, and knock myself out.
 
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I've noticed a few things that seem to make a match feel more welcoming, relaxed, and fun. Mostly it hinges on the people: Are we having a good time? Are we celebrating people's successes? Are we "in it together," even though we're competing?

There are other factors too of course: Impacts are super fun, so try to make sure most stages allow for plenty. Feel free to put a tiny target on most stages, but if you can get a shooter to hit over 60-70% of targets, that's pretty exciting and rewarding. "Rung what you brung" can be very discouraging depending on your kit so having a loaner rifle, or just sharing one that can be adjusted for different shooters quickly and repeatably, really lowers the barrier to entry.

Do you really feel like you're struggling to get midpack shooters to come back? Usually those are the folks that have decided it's a fun game and they're generally going to play when they don't have something else going on. I feel like the hardest people to keep coming back are those on a budget who come out, try it once with a rifle that really isn't appropriate, miss tons of targets, see a ton of pricey rigs, and get a lot of advice on all the crap they need to buy. Scheduling matches on accessible dates at accessible locations will improve midpack attendance, but getting a first-timer to leave and be thinking "Oh hell yes I'm doing this again" is a better barometer of how fun your match is in my opinion.

Other thoughts:
- Too many safety restrictions can be very intimidating, confusing, and stressful to a newcomer. There's really not much you can do about range rules, but try not to pile on if it's unnecessary. The four firearm rules of safety should honestly be good enough; the whole "The range has to be hot for you to get the rifle case out of your truck" thing is asinine.
- Long-range stages need big targets. If you want to have a weighted target array, that rewards people who gamble successfully on smaller targets, go for it, but zeroing a stage sucks, and there really isn't any good reason for it unless there's a catastrophic gear issue.
- Allow people to do reshoots if something went very wrong. We're here to shoot at targets; not shooting at targets cause you had a mag jam three times in a row just isn't fun.
- Let people game the props before the clock starts. Figure out their bipod heights, parallax, bag strategy, whatever. Most people don't dry-fire at home, and while we can assert "well that's on them," if your goal is to get people to come back, let them do their tinkering on the line.
- Consider setting up a mentor for a new shooter. A lot of times a newcomer will have a lot of advice thrown at them from everyone on the squad, and let's be honest, this game is pretty complicated. Designate one experienced shooter that day to take the new person under their wing, and try to keep the firehose to a drinkable pace.

I dunno man, it seems like you're trying to make a match for everyone. You want midpack shooters to be more separated in score, come back, and maybe bring a first-timer friend. You also want to entice "podium capable shooters," and experienced hunters for the first time also? That's a lot going on in your objectives list. If you're trying to appeal to everyone, focus on making it more fun than competitive. Everyone seems to love the Guardian matches, I'll shoot my first one this year cause I haven't heard a bad thing said about them yet. Those are very much about collaboration, fun, and a good cause; nobody is cranky about some RO/MD decision that affected a score by one shot and cost somebody some place or other.

As for things that are stale: I'm pretty over shooting off of utterly inappropriate rope crap. Rope ladder, rain chain, whatever it is. I wouldn't take the shot at a rabbit off that prop, I'd use a tripod, fence post, or just walk my butt a little closer. Just my two cents.
 
I've noticed a few things that seem to make a match feel more welcoming, relaxed, and fun. Mostly it hinges on the people: Are we having a good time? Are we celebrating people's successes? Are we "in it together," even though we're competing?

There are other factors too of course: Impacts are super fun, so try to make sure most stages allow for plenty. Feel free to put a tiny target on most stages, but if you can get a shooter to hit over 60-70% of targets, that's pretty exciting and rewarding. "Rung what you brung" can be very discouraging depending on your kit so having a loaner rifle, or just sharing one that can be adjusted for different shooters quickly and repeatably, really lowers the barrier to entry.

Do you really feel like you're struggling to get midpack shooters to come back? Usually those are the folks that have decided it's a fun game and they're generally going to play when they don't have something else going on. I feel like the hardest people to keep coming back are those on a budget who come out, try it once with a rifle that really isn't appropriate, miss tons of targets, see a ton of pricey rigs, and get a lot of advice on all the crap they need to buy. Scheduling matches on accessible dates at accessible locations will improve midpack attendance, but getting a first-timer to leave and be thinking "Oh hell yes I'm doing this again" is a better barometer of how fun your match is in my opinion.

Other thoughts:
- Too many safety restrictions can be very intimidating, confusing, and stressful to a newcomer. There's really not much you can do about range rules, but try not to pile on if it's unnecessary. The four firearm rules of safety should honestly be good enough; the whole "The range has to be hot for you to get the rifle case out of your truck" thing is asinine.
- Long-range stages need big targets. If you want to have a weighted target array, that rewards people who gamble successfully on smaller targets, go for it, but zeroing a stage sucks, and there really isn't any good reason for it unless there's a catastrophic gear issue.
- Allow people to do reshoots if something went very wrong. We're here to shoot at targets; not shooting at targets cause you had a mag jam three times in a row just isn't fun.
- Let people game the props before the clock starts. Figure out their bipod heights, parallax, bag strategy, whatever. Most people don't dry-fire at home, and while we can assert "well that's on them," if your goal is to get people to come back, let them do their tinkering on the line.
- Consider setting up a mentor for a new shooter. A lot of times a newcomer will have a lot of advice thrown at them from everyone on the squad, and let's be honest, this game is pretty complicated. Designate one experienced shooter that day to take the new person under their wing, and try to keep the firehose to a drinkable pace.

I dunno man, it seems like you're trying to make a match for everyone. You want midpack shooters to be more separated in score, come back, and maybe bring a first-timer friend. You also want to entice "podium capable shooters," and experienced hunters for the first time also? That's a lot going on in your objectives list. If you're trying to appeal to everyone, focus on making it more fun than competitive. Everyone seems to love the Guardian matches, I'll shoot my first one this year cause I haven't heard a bad thing said about them yet. Those are very much about collaboration, fun, and a good cause; nobody is cranky about some RO/MD decision that affected a score by one shot and cost somebody some place or other.

As for things that are stale: I'm pretty over shooting off of utterly inappropriate rope crap. Rope ladder, rain chain, whatever it is. I wouldn't take the shot at a rabbit off that prop, I'd use a tripod, fence post, or just walk my butt a little closer. Just my two cents.
Agree with everything here - great post. (I HATE rope stages!)
We try to make it very welcoming for new shooters. Lots of help with everything, including reshoots when problems arise. We almost always even have a "loaner" rifle available. And keep it friendly with lots of banter. We are also introducing "Tactical Benchrest" for one squad per match - shooters shoot all stages from a bench. Allows new and oldguy/disabled shooters to focus on targets, shooting sequences and dope without having to deal with all the movement.
 
Recently been to a few local matches a good friend hosts. He allowed corrections to be called for all shooters. It was fun. New guys really got a good experience.

Instead of hearing silence for 6 of their ten rounds, they were hearing skilled shooters or just people with good glass calling their misses.

There was no prize table or money. It was just a bunch of guys that love to shoot, enjoying the sport together. I think alot of the inexperienced guys gained alot of knowledge.

2 minute stages and one 45 second stage at 440. It was a blast.

Just hosting a enjoyable non rushed, and educational shoot for all was what will bring more guys back to his matches. There will be many more matches that there are no corrections called; but I think it's good to have a match like then every now and then.
 
Recently been to a few local matches a good friend hosts. He allowed corrections to be called for all shooters. It was fun. New guys really got a good experience.

Instead of hearing silence for 6 of their ten rounds, they were hearing skilled shooters or just people with good glass calling their misses.

There was no prize table or money. It was just a bunch of guys that love to shoot, enjoying the sport together. I think alot of the inexperienced guys gained alot of knowledge.

2 minute stages and one 45 second stage at 440. It was a blast.

Just hosting a enjoyable non rushed, and educational shoot for all was what will bring more guys back to his matches. There will be many more matches that there are no corrections called; but I think it's good to have a match like then every now and then.
That’s a great idea, especially for hunters just switching over. Probably helps sell some new optics too.
 
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As a perennial mid- (or back-) pack shooter due to age & arthritis, I always take great interest in posts like this. I have no pretensions of "doing well" in PRS matches because I'm too slow - but there are only a few things that would keep me away from matches. Among them:
  • Everything caters to the top-rung shooters, with targets, COF, and attitude that tell the new or occasional shooters they don't matter
  • Crazy props/positions like sitting on a bucket to shoot off a rope
  • As one poster noted, "behind the line" crap like rolling dice to determine targets/order
  • Lots of stages where the shooter has to perform "rifle yoga" to even get started
  • Matches where a high degree of athleticism is necessary
  • Matches where, if there is rain, shooters have to literally walllow in standing water or mud to shoot
  • I personally don't like gimmicky targets like swingers one has to hit repeatedly to make it spin or somesuch. A buddy of mine had one of those weighted swingers on the range one day; said he got it because he'd been to an NRL match or two that had them. So he burns up most of a box of ammo banging on that swinger trying to make it spin. O hell no. I don't care if it's little or moving; that's fine, but I hit the damned thing. Enough.
Elements which are attractive:
  • Good match flow, competent ROs (duh... but I did shoot a little match once where the MD's teenage son and one of his buddies RO'ed a stage and the kid was an arrogant incompetent idiot - I told daddy about it [he was apologetic] and never went back)
  • Canopies or similar to get out of the rain or sun
  • Obvious interest in making newbies - everyone, really - feel welcome.
  • Slightly more generous par times. I'm aware of potential issues for MDs with matches running longer, but I also know from experience that allowing another 30 seconds doesn't really extend the day much if the match is otherwise well-run. And the truly competitive shooters who realize that allowing themselves to use all of a 120-second par time can hurt them in bigger matches with 90-second times will just stay in their normal rhythm.
Someone mentioned COF elements oriented toward old/disabled shooters. That's me. Sigh. I loudly advocated for "seniors matches" in my region of NC featuring regular PRS target sets but using benches or other modified prone positions without the usual movement/gymnastics requirements. Several of my geezer buddies - all with competition experience but no longer doing PRS-style matches - were "o yeah that's great I'd do that!" Then one of the clubs actually puts on such a match... and all that enthusiasm evaporated- only 15 people entered - only myself and one other from my "bubble." The MD was a competitive PRS shooter in his 30s or early 40s... yeah, the positions were much more "senior friendly" than normal PRS, but there were still all-prone or kneel-behind-a-prop stages that were difficult for some people who simply cannot shoot prone or from their knees, regardless of the rifle's support. After all the hoopla about a seniors match and having a sh!^^y turnout like that, I doubt there will be another.

At the end of it all, though, running matches is a relative pita, and I'm very appreciative of the people who put them on.
 
Solid props, no circus stuff. I shot a big match this year where every other prop was suspended and no rear support allowed. I wanted to leave by stage 3. I also think gear restrictions are retarded. If you want to make people deploy on the clock its one thing to tell them they cant use a expensive piece of kit they spent lots of time practicing with is crap especially if the props are sketchy. Foster a environment of helping each other get better. During the safety brief make sure any new guys are known so other can help or loan gear to them. I know points matches come with some rules but being lax on them to help people who have no chance for the top 3 spots really makes it more enjoyable. If most guys are laughing and smiling you're doing it right(theres always a few who are way too serious- its rimfire). Having a small prize for a certain stage is fun like fastest skill stage.
 
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Prizes. I just thought of this. At every rifle or pistol matches in which I've participated, only the top shooters in a very few classes - none of them based on known skill level - win awards (Guardian matches are an exception, but that prize table is actually a raffle). If there's a prize table, the same few shooters always walk it and get stuff they don't need and will almost certainly sell. The "lesser" shooters never, ever stand a chance.

Enter Lewis class scoring. Everyone gets a chance to win a prize, it's impossible to sandbag, and only the top gun is guaranteed to win. I'm surprised more venues aren't aware of and use it. Many many years ago, one of the clubs to which I belong did a little Tuesday night pistol match. Five bucks to enter. Lewis class winners got their entry fee back.

Screen Shot 2022-12-26 at 10.49.28 AM.png
 
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Some great valid points made here. Welcoming helpful people are key. I have only been shooting nrl/prs Type matches a few years, and am still learning every time I go. So far everyone seems to be willing to help each other and have a collective good time.

having shot competition in various forms since the late 1970’s what I generally see every competition evolve to:

early on a laid back friendly environment
people start getting naturally competitive and the friendliness starts to fade
the equipment race inevitably starts
then the competitors break into groups-
the win at all costs guys
often the above are also the expensive gear snobs, who look down on new shooters or those with a budget- I have heard at times people say “ if you are not going to buy x or y or show up with a certain type of gear, don’t bother coming, which is utter nonsens.
the mid pack shooters working on getting better
and new or budget limited people. As mentioned often this last group gets discouraged but we need them to grow the sport.
from a personal perspective I accept I will never be top tier with the gear I use or the skill I have, but still enjoy it, and simply ignore/ do not take to heart negative comments of others.
 
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Prizes. I just thought of this. At every rifle or pistol matches in which I've participated, only the top shooters in a very few classes - none of them based on known skill level - win awards (Guardian matches are an exception, but that prize table is actually a raffle). If there's a prize table, the same few shooters always walk it and get stuff they don't need and will almost certainly sell. The "lesser" shooters never, ever stand a chance.

Enter Lewis class scoring. Everyone gets a chance to win a prize, it's impossible to sandbag, and only the top gun is guaranteed to win. I'm surprised more venues aren't aware of and use it. Many many years ago, one of the clubs to which I belong did a little Tuesday night pistol match. Five bucks to enter. Lewis class winners got their entry fee back.

View attachment 8030405
Competed with Lewis class in shotgun events. Hated it. Pure random win/lose.
 
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- Let people game the props before the clock starts. Figure out their bipod heights, parallax, bag strategy, whatever. Most people don't dry-fire at home, and while we can assert "well that's on them," if your goal is to get people to come back, let them do their tinkering on the line.

Speaking as an competitor and a MD of both monthly and NRL22X matches this is a mixed bag for me. I understand the premise behind your answer but this specific thing can really DRAGS down a stage timewise.

Eight shooters X 120 seconds with safety/brief is 20 minutes a stage. Add gaming time and that is now 30-45 minutes as there is always a person that will have to try five different things before running their stage and blowing their game plan anyhow.



 
As someone who has participated in only a handful of matches of any kind, one of the important things (IMO) if you want newbies to come back, make sure you present a "friendly face". Nothing turns off a newcomer more than being ignored all day. I don't need anyone to hold my hand, but just a simple conversation or two during the day, maybe a helpful tip from a more experienced shooter if it seems I'm struggling with some aspect, really makes it seem like you want me there. Make the "club" exclusive, and that's what it will continue to be.

IMO, it's very difficult to be all things to all people. You might be better off alternating the matches for your focus on the attendees...one match for the guys at a higher level of experience and competitiveness, and one for the newer people and less competition-driven shooters.
 
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For new shooters, calling corrections really seems to help bring them back. I've brought a few new guys to matches and the new guys have the most fun at ones that allow corrections to be called (usually I'll ask the MD before the match begins). It can definitely get frustrating when you're missing, don't see splash and you end up zeroing out a stage.

Also I'm surprised at the disdain for the rope/suspended stages. I find them a ton of fun because they're challenging and not something I would normally shoot off of!
 
Best rimfire match is a PRS style match with multiple stages. Elements to suit my taste are:
  1. Be challenging to me. Force me to use all my skills and push me out of my comfort zone. This builds a better marksman over time.
  2. Include several stages but don't make the event last 8hrs long. If it is that big use multiple squads and if necessary, limit the numbers.
  3. Design stages that require shooter to think, and analyze the challenge presented by each stage. Leave it flexible enough to present multiple ways to complete the stage depending on the shooter skill, physical limitations, etc.
  4. I am not a fan of the NRL22 design. The stages are known in advance and are limited in most cases to 100y ranges and I get that but they are too contrived and too often can be "Gamed" with technique and gear.
  5. Include a time limit for most if not all stages. This keeps things moving. It adds a mental stress element.
  6. Include long range prone or supported stages with up or downhill elements. One I recall had a large format Know Your Limits rack at 265y but with a very strong cross wind. 20rds in 2min. You had to take rest off a sawhorse, sitting or kneeling and shoot the largest of the five plates. Once you hit it, you advanced to the next. If you hit all five and still have ammo left, you could repeat the process from big to small. The smallest was very hard to hit.
  7. Challenge the shooter to take risks. One of the best stages I competed in last year was a one-shot-one-kill stage. We had 10 plates to hit in 2 min with 10 shots from 55y to 103y. But there was also a 3/4" plate at 115y to be shot taking rest off a ladder. Shooter had the option of trying the one shot challenge. If he hit it, he got a perfect score of 10 and was finished. If he missed it, he still got to try the 10 plates but his time limit was now reduced to 90sec.
  8. Include short range, stages that require speed, off-hand shooting skill or both. Also includes some full prone stages.
  9. Include stages that are deceptive. Example. A jungle walk stage of 10 plates along a 100y trail in the woods. The shooter had 20rdds and 2min to complete the stage. Find and engage each tog at they are seen. The first three were from the start box. Distances were unknown but we were told that tgts ranged from 65y to 250y. We could use any position and any rest. But, going prone made many tgts impossible to see. The first three tgts consisted of #1 at 65y, #2 at 75y. But #3 looked like the same distance as #2 but it was really a larger plate placed at 110y. It created an optical illusion that was just enough to force a low miss if the shooter did not hold over the 2mil needed for a hit. We could not laser these because the thick foliage fooled the range finder. It took me five shots to see the deception and get a hit and the rules did not allow the shooter to advance until he hit each tgt. It was fun, and challenging and very few shooters were able to clean it. The last two shots were at 150y and 250y and offered prone, sitting or standing positions. We were shown the location of all the plates and Then each shooter ran the stage. Taking rest off of trees was one move that helped on some. Time did not allow prone except at the last location at the end of the trail. Those two shots were at a 20deg downhill angle and were open enough to verify the range. The trick was to shoot fast and well enough to get there before time ran out, lol.
  10. Prizes? Well, they are nice but if you choose which matches to shoot based on the prizes, you are missing the most important elements of rifle match competition. i.e. Camaraderie, the challenge to you the shooter, the fun from doing well on a tough stage. The mental reward of beating a worthy opponent if you are lucky enough to do so, and the opportunity to hone your skill at arms.
My marksmanship skill has gotten 100% better since I began competing in regular 22lr matches both high level BR for learning how to hold and fire a rifle and to read wind and long range PRS style for learning how to estimate range and adjust for ballistic drop, wind and spin drift and other elements which are less of an issue at a BR match. Both are important and both help you to improve. To do this with a 6.5CM or even a 308 would require some much shooting and ammo, that you would be on your 3rd or 4th barrel before you gained the skills needed. With Rimfire, you can learn and grow a lot and then apply those skills to your centerfire rifle and stretch out the distance. I used to think a 500y centerfire shot was long until I tried this with rimfire. Any centerfire shooter who is not doing rimfire practice is missing the boat IMO.
 
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Competed with Lewis class in shotgun events. Hated it. Pure random win/lose.
That's the point. Everyone stands a chance. You know, "fun." Don't like "fun" matches? Don't play. Stay with the "serious" shooters who want no part of the unskilled proletariat. Heaven knows I've met those people, and in my skeet days I was one of them. But, even when I was a AAA shooter, had there been a chance to play a Lewis purse, I would have... why not?

OP was asking for ideas to bring new shooters in or bring them back. Something built around Lewis scoring is just one idea.

Also I'm surprised at the disdain for the rope/suspended stages. I find them a ton of fun because they're challenging and not something I would normally shoot off of!
For me, I readily admit a personal bias: I want the challenge of utilizing a precision rifle to hit a small target far away, isolated from the necessity of being physically fit enough to shoot from awkward positions. My age- and old-injury-related limitations make it impossible for me to complete some of the PRS stages I've seen. I don't expect anyone to dumb down a match to accommodate me and people like me - but it seems that ignoring that population (which temporarily includes newbies) is leaving $$ on the table. I think that's what OP was alluding to, directly or indirectly.
 
I’m looking for the things that really make midpack match shooters decide to come back and maybe bring a few match first timers. Maybe there is an MD whose match you always want to attend. Are things are stale for you in the barricade bench rest world? This is in the context of me running local matches and hoping to get a few podium capable shooters to stop buy and enjoy now and then, along with being interesting for the experienced hunters giving a match a try. I shot someone else’s blind stage field match and the experienced competitors really enjoyed the change up. Stage times, target numbers, shooting positions, rnds/stage, all on the table.

My thought is easier and harder targets/positions on the same stage. Lots of shooters close points wise in the mid pack, separated by a timed stage or 2. It fine if the 1-2 national level shooters can hit 100% in practice and 90%+ on match day. In reality, unless it’s a regional or national championship, the match is for the mid pack folks.
I consider myself a mid-pak guy myself. There are days I shine, and days I feel like I’m moving underwater. I alway come back short of illness, not for a prize table, but for the love of the game.
I would suggest looking at past successful games with a critical eye. The “everyone wins a trophy” doesn’t last as people realize what a hollow victory it is. Likewise matches where only the best can score 1/4 of the possible points. Rimfire Silhouette is fun because, even though it’s fired offhand with light sporters, the environment is relaxed to the point of being festive. Food and good natured razzing, cheers, and a pin to acknowledge a particularly good run on the targets, keeps the game alive.
For those who complain about “circus like” stages, where’s your counter suggestions? Spending the day shooting prone, I might as well punch paper. A day on the bench? Boring to me, I’m sorry.
I’m not competing against the best, I’m competing against myself. Always trying to do better than the last event.
When I ran a local version of the CMP Rimfire Sporter event, the one thing constantly repeated by new shooters was “heck, I know I can do better, next time”…
And they kept coming back.
A very generous target, slow and rapid fire stages which demand equipment familiarity, and scoring thresholds that gave a target other than being “overall winner”, something to strive for, made for a perfect storm to hook the budding competitive shooter.
This game is fun- partly because it’s always evolving. As a course designer and infrequent MD I’ve laid a few goose eggs in my day, but that’s how we learn. Having a group or even just 1-2 others to feed/bounce ideas off will help avoid pitfalls.
Great thread👍
 
As someone who has participated in only a handful of matches of any kind, one of the important things (IMO) if you want newbies to come back, make sure you present a "friendly face". Nothing turns off a newcomer more than being ignored all day. I don't need anyone to hold my hand, but just a simple conversation or two during the day, maybe a helpful tip from a more experienced shooter if it seems I'm struggling with some aspect, really makes it seem like you want me there. Make the "club" exclusive, and that's what it will continue to be.

IMO, it's very difficult to be all things to all people. You might be better off alternating the matches for your focus on the attendees...one match for the guys at a higher level of experience and competitiveness, and one for the newer people and less competition-driven shooters.
As far as the top competitors, only 1 or 2 will travel to where I am. I just need to make sure the last 10% of the points are a real challenge. As far as prizes go, whatever I can collect will be always random draw for all the shooters.
 
That's the point. Everyone stands a chance. You know, "fun." Don't like "fun" matches? Don't play. Stay with the "serious" shooters who want no part of the unskilled proletariat. Heaven knows I've met those people, and in my skeet days I was one of them. But, even when I was a AAA shooter, had there been a chance to play a Lewis purse, I would have... why not?

OP was asking for ideas to bring new shooters in or bring them back. Something built around Lewis scoring is just one idea.


For me, I readily admit a personal bias: I want the challenge of utilizing a precision rifle to hit a small target far away, isolated from the necessity of being physically fit enough to shoot from awkward positions. My age- and old-injury-related limitations make it impossible for me to complete some of the PRS stages I've seen. I don't expect anyone to dumb down a match to accommodate me and people like me - but it seems that ignoring that population (which temporarily includes newbies) is leaving $$ on the table. I think that's what OP was alluding to, directly or indirectly.
The matches I have attended, especially local ones, are very comfortable making adjustments for mobility challenged folks. It might be worth writing it into the COF considering an MD has plenty of time to adjust it beforehand. Making the adjustments consistent might help.
 
No stupid long range targets, anything over 200yards is just dumb and 95% of targets should be within 150yards.
If I wanted to test my ability to sort ammo/batch test 22lr then I'd shoot bench rest.

I really enjoy positional shooting or stages than benefit people who can use a shooting sling.
While many mid pack shooters are probably not super proficient with sling use, many top pack shooters will often drop a lot of points once its not just barricade benchrest.

If you want to try even out the pack make it so 80% of targets are fairly achievable for moderately good shooters and the remain points are on some seriously difficult/testing targets.
Mid pack shooters probably won't engage many if these anyway so you really want to test the top shooters without penalising the mid/bottom pack shooters.

No unnecessarily complicated stage rules or stupid props that only the top shooters know how to use.

The top shooters are always going to be the top shooters regardless so other than a few stages or few targets per stage don't try cater to them.
 
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The match I have been shooting the last few months is a lot of fun. I think some of the targets have shrunk a little bit because some guys were cleaning almost all the stages. We self RO/spot and time each other. Most everyone there are really cool friendly people. Cheap entry fee, $25. A pretty good lunch. The first couple times I was there First, Second, Third place got pies. Now they have small wood plaques painted with stencil.
The guys I shoot with will hand you their bag and say "here, try this".
The only downside is it's a little over an hour away. By the time you meet up and have breakfast with your squad, then get to the range and fire a couple shots to make sure you're on, shoot the matcha and then get home.... Thats your whole Sunday.
 
In regards to designing stages for those somewhat physically limited by age injury or handicaps, a novel idea would be to design a match or stage that forces everyone to shoot with the same limitations- like a stage where everybody has to shoot from a wheel chair, or something similar. Adds a challenge, encourages inclusion of those that have limitations and perhaps gives the non limited shooter an insight into the challenges those with limitations face.

regarding stages, I much prefer to shoot off props that have multiple prone stages, which get a bit mundane for me.
 
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My matches might be boring to some but I get a lot of PRS/NRL competitors coming every month just for the challenge. Various sized and shaped targets along with some gamble targets keep it pretty competitive. I allow 5 sighters a shooter can use at their discretion so using them wisely can be beneficial. shooters that are new or struggling are given plenty if needed to help as they learn.

Ya gotta let shooters hit targets but having a few harder and gamble targets let the better shooters work for a win. My final shoot of the year is a timed event, 100 rounds in a bowl, 75 targets and 1 ten round magazine. I only will call a miss as the shooters works their way thru the course so you have to pay attention to your hits or misses. Score is calculated similiar to Comstock scoring. Gotta be fast at reloading and shooting, accurate to hit targets and hope to have rounds left over. The second video is the reigning King running thru the course, it may appear slow but your finding the correct rack, adjusting scope for distance, shooting and seeing where the shot went and also watching for a condition change.

I'll just say that I've had some really good PRS/NRL competitors try to win the bounty on Chris and so far my money has been safe. Funny how things change when the buzzer goes off.

During the regular matches changing a couple of the racks to KYL really adds some tension, reversing a large to small target to small to large changes when to use a valuable sighter. Never a good thing to gear a match towards only better shooters, you'll lose shooters that don't feel they can have a chance to not look bad. Most take a match setup for granted but there is a lot of thought and experimentation on where each rack is placed.


Regular monthly match.



Timed event.

 
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Good thread. Lots of good information so far.

I don't have much experience in administrating rifle matches, but I do have 40 years experience doing IDPA and USPSA pistol matches. Shooters want the same thing no matter what they are shooting. They want to have fun and leave happy they came and have the desire to come back.

Shooters want to hit a lot of targets. You'll need something to separate the shooter level. DO NOT design something thinking you can "get" the top shooters. Won't happen. The only thing that will happen is the top shooters will meet the challenge, but the mid to lower level shooters will be discouraged and not come back. I don't like trick circus stages. Make your match a test of shooter ability not some luck thing. Make your targets an appropriate size for the distance.

I shoot Topstraps matches and he has a good distribution of target size with options giving you the opportunity to be a hero or zero. :)

A new range not for from Topstrap started shooting ARA last year. The plan this year is to continue ARA on Sunday and have an ABRA match during the morning on Saturday, followed by an outlaw PRS style 22 match for old guys following the ABRA match on Saturday. These are being scheduled so as to not interfere with Topstrap's and Butch's matches. The plan is to move the props up so they can be shoot standing or leaning with no prone stuff. There are several of us who have bad backs and can't do the up and down. Testing will be done over the winter to see what will work. The goal is for everybody to be able to shoot the same stages the same way.
 
Personally I think the key for maximizing participation is make a fair match, reasonable target sizes, reasonable target distance, solid props, minimize the luck factor and focus on testing skills, keep the circus stages out of the match and most importantly is keep it safe. Every stage should be a separator stage as the match should not be decided on one or two stages. A common problem with 22 is there is no recoil so match directors get cute with shooting off ridiculous props at targets too small which causes luck to be a big factor. I would recommend looking into the Midwest Precision shooting director handbook bit.ly/3vMWON4 as they really have done a great job in outlining what makes a great match.
 
Running a few and shooting a few there are things I try to do and like and things I don't like and will not incorporate.

1) try to take gaming out of most stages with clear but concise stage descriptions and instructions. Sometimes those are mutually exclusive because if you are trying to remove the gaming and assume that everyone will understand what you are saying, that can take a lot of words.
2) try to allow one or two stages where the descriptions are somewhat open that allow a bit of what you eliminated in 1.
3) this goes back to #1, don't assume that everyone will read your instructions as written and be prepared to make rulings that are fair to everyone.
4) I try to use common shaped targets on almost all stages that aren't "hunting" themed.
5) I mix painted and unpainted targets in each match. I try to have clean targets on the "first" stages for everyone, then subsequent stages are not clean.
6) I try to have at least one stage with targets out to 275. However, the average distance is under 100 yards.
7) In an eight stage match, I try to have one "hard" stage, 2 "medium" stages, and 5 relatively "easy" stages. This can all go out the window with wind, I try to have backup targets to switch to if the wind is absurd, but sometimes that isn't possible for the whole match. The difficulty of the stages could vary due to a variety of factors. Time constraints, target sizes, engagement order, movement, etc.
8) try to have 3 prone stages per match. Usually one of those will be a "harder" stage with no movement.

Don't likes
1) Bank targets
2) gimmicky COF... big one for me is rolling dice or some other apparatus to determine targets unless everyone shoots the same targets just maybe not in the same order.
3) color designations in the COF or targets... some folks (including myself are color blind) red and green look a lot a like to some, especially after fading.
4) overly tight spaces for rifles, everyone has spent their hard earned money on their rig and you shouldn't go into a stage wondering how bad you're going to scuff something up. If you do it yourself that's on you and will happen.
5) probably not popular, but I don't like "pick" your point targets, this is big in nrl22 and I understand the logic behind it, but I just don't care for them.
 
I realize we are all invested in our opinions and our own ideas, but wow! I’ve read this thread a couple of times and honestly, it’s like the only way for such an event to prosper is for it to fracture into two or three separate games? I can’t say any of the above opinions are wrong, but many do sound diametrically opposed to the games I’ve fired.
In no particular order-

The steady barricade and prone shooters. Closest game I can think of would be a form of NRL22-X, but eliminate the card shuffling/dice rolling/candy movement. Regular targets, regular props, ranges not exceeding 300yds.
Times are generous.

The circus shooters.
Every match is different, round counts, target styles, moving props and moving targets, as well as the random elements.
In many ways a MARS type event from what I’ve experienced.
Distances can exceed 400yds, and fate favors the trained and prepared. Times add their own pressure.

Accuracy and precision shooters.
The folks who have zero desire to speedily get in or out of position, no position transitions on the clock, and distances could be limited by the available range.
No reason not to have a wide variance in multiple target distances per stage, or targets spacing across the line.
Deliberate and rapid fire, while starting in position, could be just the challenge some are looking for. I honestly don’t know of any events with this platform.
 
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I realize we are all invested in our opinions and our own ideas, but wow! I’ve read this thread a couple of times and honestly, it’s like the only way for such an event to prosper is for it to fracture into two or three separate games?
I hope not (split into separate games). I was speaking to my own likes/dislikes, which are definitely not the likes/dislikes of other posters. We all have our preferences. For me, the only thing that would turn me away from a conveniently-reached, decently-run, appropriately-priced match is a predominance of stages I physically couldn't complete.

Heck, one of my favorite events is a little monthly shooting-gallery-style match where people engage racks of 20 knock-down steel targets at 50, 100, and 150 yards from the bench. Many people would find this boring... in fact, in one division (50, 100 yards, 40 targets total plus a much-smaller bonus to be engaged with a clean score) I cleaned the course, including the little 41st bonus target, four times out of six matches this past season. Too easy? Well, in many ways this match rewards the best equipment & ammo, especially on no-wind days - for the past three years, Vudoos have dominated, with one Anschutz and this year a RimX vying for the lead. Someone who shows up with a bone-stock CZ-45x and "meh" ammo, let alone a 10/22 and bucket'o'bullets, is going to struggle at best with the small targets at 100, and the 150-yard rack's smaller targets challenge even top-shelf rigs with the best ammo. But the camaraderie, the tee-time shooting rotations, cheap entry, and the end-of-season awards - where everyone gets decent stuff off a prize table - are attractive to me.

That's the only never-changing match I shoot. I prefer PRS-style matches with new target presentations each time - but, at the end of it, my goal is to shoot the best I can, have a good time, and hopefully meet new friends.
 
I would say don't make the COF overly complicated. I shot a fun match this summer and the COF was nearly impossible to memorize, I don't have a great memory for that stuff and it was my first match but everyone else was struggling with it also.
 
As a regular long range .22 MD, I found this to be an interesting read. As usual, and honestly to be expected, there is a wide range of favored versus detested stage and match styles. There really is no way to please everybody. That’s reality no matter how much you strive to do so.

Add to that the restrictions placed upon the MD by his venue and some things are just not going to happen, no matter how much you, they, we or me might like it to be so. Ultimately, about the best you can do is to try and create a balanced cof based upon what your or your group’s mission is (what you think you want to accomplish and who you think you want to attract).

Then, once you’ve run a few, re-evaluate based upon who actually is showing up, actual attendance and the scores of the stages that you have run to date. A spreadsheet is quite helpful to gather and evaluate whether some stage designs might be too easy (I.e. everybody or most shooters cleaned it) or too difficult (even top shooters were zeroing the stage and hit percentages were very low across the board).

In the end, as an MD, I wish for people to have a fun, but challenging match that’s both accessible to young and new shooters and challenging enough that top shooters are pressed to do their best.

And yes, I do occasionally create a dud stage that looked good when I dreamt it up, but the reality doesn’t pan out. I’d like to think that I do this very infrequently, but to that end, I’m constantly soliciting shooters opinions. I’m looking for feedback from experienced and new shooters alike, since I’m striving for that balance.

Being restricted by my location and frankly the amount of time I can put into creating a match, there is no way that I can or will try and create stages with multiple options. Yes, that does mean that older shooters are somewhat left out and getting up there myself and shooting these myself, I literally feel your pain. However, despite those that say they would attend a more sedentary match, actual attendance at matches that tried this was sparse at best.

Lastly, for every twenty people that tell me they really want to do this, shoot that, etc., etc. only one or two will actually come and even try to shoot a match. That means that I’m going to tailor my matches largely to accommodate those that actually do attend matches versus those that say they would attend a match if I changed it thus or so.
 
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