best scale within reason

OldmaninNeb

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OK, Hornady's single press./setup comes with a scale that won't even show odd tenths of a grain ... I've heard of Acculab's vic-123 milligram scale... anyone care to pitch in? I want a good one thats going to give me a box of shells with EXACTLY the same powder in each. Thanx,
 

TaterInTheSouth

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Re: best scale within reason

The Veritas S-123 seems to be the equivalent or darn close to the Vic 123.
For the same money. The Veritas is not U.S. Made However, It does suport a Battery.

If your house power is dirty you need a battery option. (Or a UPS)

Veritas S-123
http://www.affordablescales.com/scales_specs.asp?specs=4585&Veritas_S123

Vic-123
http://www.affordablescales.com/scales_specs.asp?specs=678&Acculab_VIC-123

Me, I use a digital scale to backup my 10-10 and 5-10 balances, Then I cut it off.
 

OldmaninNeb

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Re: best scale within reason

ok, I did try n get away with 'within reason' too, I've gotten fairly handy at shaking a little out or a little more in, and all I want is a scale that will notice when a few more grains have hit the dish. I would go as high as $250, because I've about decided an accurate scale is the only way I'm ever coming close to two or more loads being the same. I don't shoot competition, mostly because there isn't any close by, but I do have tunnel vision and when I get into something, i TEND to become boring company until I figure it out.
So, rephrasing, I'm asking those who found a scale that they have found to be quite accurate to share a little with the newguy.
 

MinorDamage

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Re: best scale within reason

popgunz,

If you are going to spend 250 just spent the extra 25 bucks to get an RCBS chargemaster combo. It dispenses to the desired amount, I dump the charge in, replace the powder tray, seat a bullet and the next charge is just about finished.

Josh
 

OldmaninNeb

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Re: best scale within reason

ok, good, thank you minordamage. that's a +1 for RCBS chargemaster combo. I'm also going to buy a cheaper beam scale n see just how exact they are (as a friend swears by his)but if I find one that gets the job done right n moves right along, that'll be the one.
 

427Cobra

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    Re: best scale within reason

    I would recommend a RCBS 10-10, then have it tuned, there is a guy who does it on 6mmbr.com, I think he also posts here, but I don't remember his name
     

    Unsichtbar

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    Re: best scale within reason

    The older scales made by Ohaus for various companies are very good as others have stated they register a single grain drop. I have picked up several for $25 at gun shows. Scott Parker contact info at 6mm BR might have some tuned or send him one for tuning. See below for his info:

    Scott Parker
    661 364-1199
    vld223@yahoo.com




    Also set up a web cam like MX 3000 manual focus an FS viewer to view on lap top the pointer. By setting up scale and pan, powder measure (with soda straw twisted in tube to slow powder down so it does not bounce out) drop straight into pan, set a trickler to trickle up.

    "Is your electronic scale giving you the blues? Does it drift with temperature or not hold accuracy tolerance? I modify balance beam scales to enhance sensitivity and more importantly, repeatability. You can literally count kernels with these scales. Outside of a $250 laboratory scale, this is the most accurate and precise balance you can buy. I offer Ohaus type 10-10 and model 5-10 scales. NOTE 2006 prices The price is $70.00+ shipping. I can also modify your existing 5-10 and 10-10 scales for $20.00+ shipping.





     

    jrob300

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    Re: best scale within reason

    You mention the Acculab in your first post. It's accurate to .02 gr and it can be had for less than $250. An acquaintance who has one and load for 1000 yd BR says it can detect 1 granule of powder.

    Not good enough???

    John
     

    OldmaninNeb

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    Re: best scale within reason

    am plenty sure its good enough, but I've never met anyone with one...sort of what I'm hopin for here ;-) 2 year guarantee too! but I learn by asking and my brain gets plenty of stretching in here. Everyone's input makes me a richer man, so to speak. I've also found out I can get an 8 twist barrel from Cooper installed with their 1/2moa guarantee for a little over $420 ...it didn't take me long to learn that "BOAT" stood for Bring Out Another Thousand...was a good warmup for getting into accuracy shooting. lol
     

    OldmaninNeb

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Thank you, Scott has already gotten in touch with me and I'm waiting for him to wake up before giving him a call. So I guess I need a balance beam scale and maybe one other, just to keep all of them honest. ;-)
     

    Fuzzball

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    Re: best scale within reason

    A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches thinks he knows what it maybe. A man with three watches has little idea of what time it is. Ditto reloaders with multipule scales.

    Actually, precise accuracy of an indicated reading is only casually helpful to a reloader. What reloaders need is precise repeatability and beam scales are best for that. We do need to know that if we develope a load with any given scale we will be able to duplicate that load <span style="font-style: italic">with that scale</span> at any point in the future. Anything electronic less than a lab type digital selling for several hundreds of dollars and professionally maintained isn't likely to do that for long, if at all. And, at best, a digital read-out instrument is typically only accurate to what the display shows +/- one count. That's just another limitation of electronic instruments and many hobbiest grade digital scales aren't very close to being that accurate!

    Only a beam will follow a trickler in real time. Digitals always have a bit of time lag and some have too much hysterisis - reluctance to change - to follow small changes very accurately.

    So, you want good accuracy, precise repeatablilty and long term dependability? Get a beam! All of them are more than sufficently accurate and sensitive for reloading needs.

    My 46 year old Lyman M-5 (made by Ohaus, as RCBS beam scales are today) has a 260.9 gr. weight to extend its range above 500 gr. I can zero the scale, set the poises to 260.9, place the weight on the pan and it will rise to zero and stop there in no more than 2 seconds. I don't need anything more dependable, accurate or faster than that and I doubt my beam is any better than any other scale of its type. And it doesn't drift in calibration or zero due to temp or line voltage changes, etc., either.

    Seems most of the people who think beams are "slow and hard to read" set their's on the bench top; the only worse place would be <span style="text-decoration: underline">under</span> the top! Set a beam on a shelf or sturdy box up near chin-nose level and it will be very easy to read accurately to less than a half tenth grain.
     

    Unsichtbar

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Fuzzball yep it works mine is about $5 years old also, by adding a $40. web cam and using the FS full screen ap ( free) hooked to a laptop it make in much faster and so easy to see. If you have not given it a go, I thing you would be inpressed
     

    MinorDamage

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    Re: best scale within reason

    As stated above...you do not need multiple scales. They sell these things call "check weights" which function just as there title describes. My chargemaster measures to .1 grains and throws the charge for me. It saves a lot of time. If you are so anal that you need to constantly check calibration just throw one of the check weights into the powder tray and see what it reads. If it is a 100 grain check weight and it happens to read 100.0 grains you are good. The chargemaster doesn't suffer from the shortcomings that the vic-123 does with regards to power supplies, fluorescent lighting, etc.

    My old balance beam now collects dust. The chargemaster is THAT much better.

    Josh
     

    yoterunner

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Cabelas 1500 - .1 grain accuracy and less than $80 for a electronic scale. Runs on battery or wall plug. Has adjustable legs for leveling and I have had no problems with mine for 3+ years.
     

    Fuzzball

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    Re: best scale within reason

    ".. by adding a $40. web cam and using the FS full screen ap ( free) hooked to a laptop it make in much faster and so easy to see."

    Now THAT is an electronic "Promethus" I COULD be impressed with! But, since internal case variations exceed the effects of small charge variations I don't think I'll bother.


    Yoterunner, I'm happy you've had good results with your digital and hope it keeps up a long time. You only need to keep it going some 43 more years and it will have equaled what my old Lyman M-5 has done to this point. At that time mine will have worked about 90 years and I fully expect it will last at least that long. Sadly, I really don't believe your's or any other digital will match mine no matter how careful you are with it.
     

    Muttt

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    Re: best scale within reason

    But,

    Over the course of those 90 years of using your beam scale, he will likely have saved about 5 years in accumulated time by using an electronic scale.

    I too have a beam scale. It works really really well. But, it is slower. I have a digital scale and it is much quicker. I use my electronic scale as a quick check scale. I have my uniflow powder measurer set to a specific load. Every ten shots or so, I will drop a load onto the scale to verify that my charge has stayed the same. To do the same thing on my beam scale takes longer. Is my beam scale accurate, you bet. Is my electronic scale accurate, you bet. I use the same check weight for both scales. When/if my electronic scale craps out. I'll go back to using my beam scale.
     

    MinorDamage

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Fuzzball,

    In 43 more years no one is going to be using scales. It will be a simple matter of switching a lever from stun to kill. No more powder. Honestly, what the hell are you guys thinking?
    wink.gif


    Josh
     

    OldmaninNeb

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    Re: best scale within reason

    ahahaha... it's what I Like about this place! OK, I called Scott Parker, and he recommends a beam scale, which he will get, tune, and ship to me for $131. He said it'll be accurate for my kids if I pass it on, and it'll register a single granule! Done deal for me. the Hornady 1500 elect. scale works, but I got real tired real fast in trickling in fresh grains and no registered change...it also would zero back with the check weight, but just not sensitive enough for anal ol me. ;-) Thanks all for the input.
     

    Fuzzball

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    Re: best scale within reason

    <span style="font-style: italic">"Fuzzball, In 43 more years no one is going to be using scales. It will be a simple matter of switching a lever from stun to kill."</span>

    All purely hypothetical Minor but I saw Mad Max and fear it was closer to the truth than Star Trek. Anyway, I'm 70 now so I won't care!
    wink.gif



    <span style="font-style: italic">"Over the course of those 90 years of using your beam scale, he will likely have saved about 5 years in accumulated time by using an electronic scale."</span>

    It would take a lot of reloading to add up to five years at one-two seconds a round.
     

    samnev

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    Re: best scale within reason

    I use an RCBS 1500 Combo and my old Ohaus 10-10 to check the 1500.
    +
     

    OldmaninNeb

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    Re: best scale within reason

    It all started with the target that Cooper sent with the rifle, showing its 3 shot group...also admitting they used a 36x scope and handloads. I wanted to find that spot for myself. As I got further and further into handloading, my interest grew and with that my desire for more precision. Now, I'm hooked! Now, its a hobby and a passion and a good challenge for an old man. I can plant 5 shots @ 100 yards under a penny, but that's still not as good as this rifle will shoot! ;-)
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: best scale within reason

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You mention the Acculab in your first post. It's accurate to .02 gr and it can be had for less than $250. An acquaintance who has one and load for 1000 yd BR says it can detect 1 granule of powder.

    Not good enough???

    John </div></div>

    I can look at the Acculab's readout, feel the correct number of granules between my fingers, and hit the exact number I'm after with it. Yes it registers a change on a single granule of Varget.

    Once you experience that level of precision, it is hard to go with anything else.
     

    OldmaninNeb

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Scott Parker said the 'tuned' scale he'll be sending will detect one granule too. I'm anxious to put that to the test, but alas, everything takes time and it hasn't come yet.
     

    bignada

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Man, all this about scales?

    How many even zero their scale using checkweights for "precision" results? Not many, I'd guess. If you don't zero using checkweights, are you really measuring correctly? No matter what your scale says...


    Also, don't need to worry about weight measurement exactness every case you load. Think that each granule of powder has the same energy potential everytime?

    Tactical Shooter or Precision Shooting ran an article authored by a distinguished Service Rifle shooter about using Dillon 550B to load all the match ammo he and his daughter shot in competition and practice during the year. It was a bout 10,000 rds he loaded every Winter to see them through Spring and Summer shooting. Not like he worried about every granule of powder.

    So many variables. Can only isolate and work on the big and most meaningful.

    Set your scale, any scale, with checkweights and be sure.
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: best scale within reason

    Don't be so quick to make assumptions about who uses check weights and who doesn't as well as what some of us do for loading SR ammo with good results.

    While I don't want to minimize the DR accomplishment, it takes the ability to shoot 95% in order to accumulate leg points. 95% for many of us HP shooters is a dismal disappointment of a score post the DR accomplishment.

    200 and 300 ammo is not picky; 600 on back is. In order to hold the X ring at 1k you need to hold ES below 20 FPS. Dead nuts on powder charges are a part of that, something a Dillon has no prayer of delivering.
     

    OldmaninNeb

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    Re: best scale within reason

    I'm thinking the time spent finding the very best, repeatable load for a particular rifle, using whatever it takes makes perfect sense. Once found, if there is such a thing as a very accurate metering device, one could reload a boatload of shells with only occasional checking.