Where is the best place to get a Steiner T6Xi 5-30x56 from? I'd like to support our site vendors and get a good price.
- Thread starter Thumper580
- Start date
Always our pleasure at Camera Land Sport Optics to assist the members here
FYI, if you get a scope from Liberty and decide you don’t like it, even if unmounted Liberty has a no return policy…
And for the price you get it you can sell it and usually not lose any money. @LibertyOptics has been around a long time on this forum and someone not doing their homework to know what they want and need is not on them.
If you're not buying from us Scott at Liberty would be the next place to buy from. Known Scott a long time and he's a great and honest guy to work with.
This is not true. We have a "no refund" policy, but not a "no return" policy. The policy is in writing on the website. Refunds cost us a minimum of 6% of the purchase price, plus shipping. At the average ticket of what we sell, that is a lot of money. At the low margin that we sell, the cost is magnified. "No fault" returns are very expensive for any business but particularly for a small potatoes outfit like us. Even Amazon is finally dealing with this reality and has changed their policies to tack on fees in certain situations.
It is true that I have said that I would rather make no sale at all than to make a sale where the customer is really wanting to satisfy their curiosity "because nobody local has this scope in stock" and there is at least a 50% chance they are wanting to return the scope for a full refund. I would much rather these types patronize our competition, knowing the time and money costs involved, I consider it a competitive advantage for folks like these to go elsewhere.
Having said all that, are you posting this anecdotally or from experience? Feel free to reach out to me to discuss.
Thanks,
Scott
Based on the reply from Scott/Liberty Optics, It appears @Butleroutdoors should edit his comment to reflect the facts, like I did above.
Valid point. A subject I have taken up with Burris/Steiner and others. With their new guidelines, nearly everybody qualifies for "ExpertVoice"...the only downside is the wait times can make ours look short.
I can’t speak to anyone other than myself, so I have no idea what qualifies other than my military credentials, and more manufacturers offer mil discounts than not. And at the price savings (obviously can’t mention how much) I get on Steiner and others, I can stand to wait a bit. In my experience it hasn’t been THAT long of a wait, and keep in mind what industry we are talking about. What’s a few months on an optic when I’m waiting nearly a year for a stock or action. But I get we live in an Amazon prime society so that may be unbearable to some.
The price savings is below what we pay for the product, direct to the consumer. What is the logic in that? Why bother having dealers?
I'm all for mil/le/fire/emt discounts, but the net has opened up to where darn near anyone qualifies now, millions of people.
I'm all for mil/le/fire/emt discounts, but the net has opened up to where darn near anyone qualifies now, millions of people.
I'm thankful that they offer it, and appreciative. Obviously I want the best price, and I'm also fine with companies making their own business decisions, yourself included.
I'll bow out of whatever this is developing into, OP was asking for the best price, and if he qualifies (which according to Scott he more than likely does), the best price is through Expert Voice by a landslide.
I'll bow out of whatever this is developing into, OP was asking for the best price, and if he qualifies (which according to Scott he more than likely does), the best price is through Expert Voice by a landslide.
OP was also stating he would like to support site vendors, which you conveniently undermined with your "Would hands down beat any of the vendors already mentioned" comment, and now you take the passive/aggressive approach of "I'll bow out of whatever this is developing into" which up to this point was an open and honest discussion of what you brought up. If you were really trying to help the OP and not draw attention to yourself, perhaps a PM with said info would have been more appropriate.
Make no mistake, I am actively lobbying our manufacturers to bow out of the expertvoice deal, given the farce it has become. I also have a compelling business interest to do so, as you clearly illustrate in your post above.
Thanks.
Make no mistake, I am actively lobbying our manufacturers to bow out of the expertvoice deal, given the farce it has become. I also have a compelling business interest to do so, as you clearly illustrate in your post above.
Thanks.
You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder. I'm sure your plan of bitching to manufacturers to cut deals out will get consumers flocking to you. I could honestly care less about your business, likewise how you could care less about anything other than making a buck. We will both do business in our best interests, difference is i'm not on the internet crying about it. I have no reason to support or not support your business (well i didn't anyway), but acting like it's not a relevant to let the op know he can get a great price direct is simply childish on your part. Grow up Peter Pan.
Mea Culpa.
I should have read the policy more closely,
I didn’t not catch that returns are for in store credit.
Not a dig against Liberty Optics, just make sure one is aware of the policy
10/9/2022
Your satisfaction is important to us. If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase we will offer full store credit for items returned in new condition within 15 days of purchase, less a 10% restocking fee and shipping ($18 for riflescopes/binos/spotters, $5.00 for rings and bases, and actual shipping charges for international orders). If you purchased a rifle scope, please do not mount it and then hope to return it for full credit. We examine all returned rifle scopes, and if found to have been mounted we assess a 30% fee. We are committed to your satisfaction and encourage you to call if the item you purchased does not satisfy you or meet your needs. NO RETURNS ACCEPTED WITHOUT PRIOR AUTHORIZATION FROM LIBERTY OPTICS. All special order or pre order items will require a deposit. Should you cancel your order these deposits are non-refundable. However we will allow you to use the deposit as a store credit. In addition, all special order items (where we have to search and locate and order an item for you) are non-returnable.
I should have read the policy more closely,
I didn’t not catch that returns are for in store credit.
Not a dig against Liberty Optics, just make sure one is aware of the policy
10/9/2022
Your satisfaction is important to us. If you are not completely satisfied with your purchase we will offer full store credit for items returned in new condition within 15 days of purchase, less a 10% restocking fee and shipping ($18 for riflescopes/binos/spotters, $5.00 for rings and bases, and actual shipping charges for international orders). If you purchased a rifle scope, please do not mount it and then hope to return it for full credit. We examine all returned rifle scopes, and if found to have been mounted we assess a 30% fee. We are committed to your satisfaction and encourage you to call if the item you purchased does not satisfy you or meet your needs. NO RETURNS ACCEPTED WITHOUT PRIOR AUTHORIZATION FROM LIBERTY OPTICS. All special order or pre order items will require a deposit. Should you cancel your order these deposits are non-refundable. However we will allow you to use the deposit as a store credit. In addition, all special order items (where we have to search and locate and order an item for you) are non-returnable.
Last edited:
And you sir, are obviously an insipid douche nozzle. See how your tone changed when I pushed just a little, it didn't take much. To say all I care about is making a buck shows you do not know me at all.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a consumer-direct selling model. Tesla does it. Practically every other auto maker does not, even if you special order an item, you go through a dealer. The dealer network model has been around for how long?
The problem is when a manufacturer does BOTH. Can you imagine if GM, Ford, Toyota all went consumer direct, selling to customers for thousands less than what the dealers themselves are invoiced? AND still retained all of their dealer network concurrently? What do you think would happen? It doesn't take a rocket scientist. It's stupid and a slap in the face to all those dealers that built their business up to be a good seller and representative of the manufacturer.
Times change, I get it. If the manufacturers want to migrate to a consumer direct model, so be it. But it's not cool to cut my throat when we work everyday to move as much of their product as we can, only to lose out to some sketch third party direct deal with amorphous requirements.
If the manufacturers want to invoice me for 20% below what expertvoice charges to you, then fair game and we will make hay. We would lower our margin and save you even more $$ and everyone would be happy.
In the meantime, I will indeed bitch about it.
I didn't read any of that. The fact that you are working so hard to cut out better deals for guys tells me everything i need to know about you. Fuck everyone else but you, got it. You offer nothing the manufacturer can not. You are a middle man, at best. It's 2023 and you can't even scrap together a half-assed website to sell a product that we can get cheaper by avoiding you altogether. I tried finding steiner prices on your website. It's a loop of dead links and "click above" when theres nothing to fucking click lol. Don't play the poor simple merchant card. I shop local and small business when it makes sense, because I get better service usually, and it's worth the markup. Why should anyone want to pay your markup if they don't have to? So you out yourself as trying to undermine guys getting generous deals, simply because it doesn't benefit you. So you throw a pity party and go on a rant of how you're going on some big campaign to fuck everyone but you. Again, got it. You are a dime a dozen.
Last edited:
And you are a complete moron. I am working hard to level the playing field in the industry, but it is obvious your reading comprehension skills can't grasp any of the big picture, I laid it out in very simple terms. but over your head it goes. So you resort to f-bombs as your trump card because you have no more game. So much for bowing out, poser. Thank you for outing yourself as the piece of trash that you are. Loudmouth keyboard commandos like you are the true dime a dozen. You argue like a woke liberal. Have a Bud Light, seems fitting.
Scott at Liberty is one the nicest people I've metI. I regularly meet up with him personally to get all my purchases as he's local. Every time its a planned stop and grab, however it turns into a long friendly conversation, some about our industry, but most of it is about whats happening in our lives. He's most definitely not about the quick buck. I understand his complaint about expert voice. I believe he's more disgruntled with how easy it's become to get setup with them, as I bet over half of the members aren't legally qualified by their professions or certifications. He recognizes legit emt/mil/Le/fd deserve the break expertvoice gives, and likely believes these public servants deserve it, it's just the ethics/validity are in question.
Expertvoice is just another dealer, of do many companies unfortunately. Their profit margin on such a discounted item, has to be extremely small. They have no overhead, nothings really in stock, it's all manufacturer/warehouse orders as soon as you pay them. I'm sure they welcome anyone who meets or falsifys to get access, as it's just another tiny profit margin in their sales. It all adds up. They're as wholesale as it gets.
Expertvoice is just another dealer, of do many companies unfortunately. Their profit margin on such a discounted item, has to be extremely small. They have no overhead, nothings really in stock, it's all manufacturer/warehouse orders as soon as you pay them. I'm sure they welcome anyone who meets or falsifys to get access, as it's just another tiny profit margin in their sales. It all adds up. They're as wholesale as it gets.
I was fine bowing out, until you decided you were so triggered you’d announce your campaign to wipe out discounts and shoot a low blow at me. You knew exactly what you were doing and then when I just didn’t sit there and take it, you cry foul. You act like you have some moral high ground, yet you’ve also resorted to insults. You’re nothing if not a hypocrite. Apparently you can shoot insults but not anyone else. Again, you’ve found you can’t compete with another vendor, so instead of increasing the value you offer, you try to eliminate their business. You offer nothing that any other middle man doesn’t. Please give me one reason I should purchase from you at a higher cost? I could care less what manufacturers you sell. Again, I can’t even see what prices you’re selling Steiner for because your website is garbage. Maybe if you spent half the time on that as you’ve spent on here trying to insult and project yourself upon a cross, you could improve it.
Liberal? Please lol. I’m not the one trying to dictate how a manufacturer does business. If you really had a spine, you’d prove your point by ceasing to carry their products, but I’m betting you’re such a small fish they wouldn’t care.
Your car dealer analogy doesn’t prove the point you think it does, as I can think of literally nobody who prefers to go through a car dealership. Direct web sales is the way it is going. Nobody wants to call or visit and haggle. Just give me your price, and if it’s competitive, great, if not, the market will reflect.
I also run a business. There are apps and big businesses that offers the same services as me, much cheaper. I do better not because I have more volume than them, I don’t, but because I have a higher quality service. Again, you don’t seem to offer anything one can’t get direct, for a better price. At a time when inflation is stretching everyone’s dollar, you decide to try and undermine people from getting better deals instead of increasing your value. It’s lazy, and I think the fact that you are so triggered by it reflects your inability to adapt.
Again, I’m not sure who qualifies for Steiner, and I’ve ALWAYS had to verify my affiliations in a way they couldn’t be falsified. Do you have any proof or examples of this? Honestly curious. And I see nothing that indicates he’s separated mil expertvoice discounts from anything else. I’m going by what he said “I’m all for mil, Leo, etc, BUT”
I get that he’s disgruntled
, I just disagree how he’s responding to that frustration. He’s coming off as the kid that’s taking his ball and going home. If he doesn’t get to play, nobody does essentially. I can only judge by what I’ve read on here, same as him, but yet it’s fine for him to throw insults while condemning me from doing the same. I don’t care if he bullshits for hours on the phone. I don’t need a “buddy” who is trying to sell me something. Same as us throwing around “supporter” here. Call it what it is “advertiser”. He gets way more out of SH than it gets out of him. He wouldn’t be a “supporter” if he didn’t have anything to sell. Same as guys who pay only to sell in the PX. He’s not local to me, he offers no further value beyond pricing, and he’s actively trying to make me pay more for a product because it doesn’t benefit him. I’ve actually purchased from him before, and he’s had good prices on items that I can’t get a better price on. Based on our conversation, that will no longer be the case because there are countless other dealers that also have good prices that have better value, I.e. websites they put a modicum of effort into, good warranties, good CS, etc. So far he’s done nothing to demonstrate his value, and instead decided he wants to bring down EV down to his level instead of raising his game. I don’t care how nice he is, actions speak louder.
Again, I was fine leaving it be and he decided he would poke back and expect me to just be fine with it and not say a word.
Apparently he took offense that I let the OP know he could get a good deal with someone other than him. Prices are emotionless. I’m all for him explaining why someone should want to patronize him other than paying way less, unfortunately he has focused on shit talking instead. I’m not just going to sit back while he feels sorry for himself.
Also, personally, Steiner is the only manufacturer I get a better deal on EV other than proof. I get roughy the same for Zeiss, Vortex, and NF from dealers like CSTactical and cameraland so I obviously go to them instead. I’m not emotional with my purchasing. I’ve also never had issues getting what I wanted from EV in a timely manner if it’s in stock, which pre/post Covid is almost always. The scope the OP is asking about is in stock currently. Not sure about Liberty having it as his website isn’t showing any Steiner at all so no clue on price there either.
@LibertyOptics
@gr8fuldoug
You both are Great examples of caring business owners.
And I appreciate your contributions to this forum and our community.
Best regards,
Chet
@gr8fuldoug
You both are Great examples of caring business owners.
And I appreciate your contributions to this forum and our community.
Best regards,
Chet
It seems like you’re so wound up you’re missing the Steiner menu on Scott’s website. I’ve bought three of them in the past month with about a weeks wait. I don’t think EV is selling them cheaper than Scott. All you have to do is go to the site and choose “pay through invoice” and you’ll get the price in your email. EV won’t last, established dealers will.
Not really, I have no gain from the op buying or not buying from any specific vendor. And I seriously doubt Scott is selling them cheaper, or he wouldn’t be stomping his feet and demanding Steiner stop the pro discount. I found his pricing an it’s not even close. And sounds like you got lucky as his disclaimer on there says you could be waiting a while. I've never waited longer than a couple of weeks on EV for something in stock. I'm never in so big of a hurry that i'm willing to pay hundreds more just to get it a week earlier.
Even if expert voice doesn’t last (it's actually been around for years, just under "promotive" previously), not sure where your getting that impression other then the Karen campaign he’s waging on them, but other vendors like eurooptic also have a better price than Scott, as they also honor the discount. The whole issue is Scott thinks he should be the authority on what discounts Steiner issues to whom, where I think they should be the one to make that determination. I don’t think it should only be military or first responders, as they aren’t the only ones using the products professionally. I used Steiner binoculars as a wildlife biologist and previously qualified that way. Im fine disagreeing, but I’m also not going to just sit there and listen to his sassy mouth either.
Last edited:
(Cracks open an ice cold Otter Water) Happy Friday Night Hiders! Thanks for the kind words @406shootist, @jetmd , @Precision Underground, @gr8fuldoug, @Milf Dots. Let's not worry about Dylan Mulvaney anymore. Typical of the genre, he(?) doesn't seem to know who he is, what his message is, how to delivery it (first short and sweet, then profanity laced... and now he thinks he's Shakespeare with his long baseless tomes, lol) or even why he is doing it (helping the OP? Plugging for EV? Attacking us? Plugging for other vendors now? Bored and has no life? Shit. Just like a woman.) Dylan, you're an idiot. If you just did some cursory research you could see what the truth is, but you are too busy shooting off at the mouth trying to be a "professional button pusher", but it's your buttons that have been pushed 
The thing is, I don't have to prove or explain myself to anybody. Twenty years in business and thousands of customers served, so many of them Hide members the last 19 years, from the most experienced glass whore to the newbie with their brand new first long range precision rig, we treat them all the same, following the Golden Rule. And make them the best deal we can, always. We support the Hide!
There was a time years ago when I used to mix it up like this somewhat frequently, but Doug @ CamerlandNY taught me by example it is indeed counter-productive and unprofessional, and it's not something I will continue (even if a good old fashion pissing match is entertaining).
Good luck @Thumper580 in your quest, you asked a legitimate question and sorry for the thread drift, hopefully it was somewhat informative and/or entertaining
Peace out!
The thing is, I don't have to prove or explain myself to anybody. Twenty years in business and thousands of customers served, so many of them Hide members the last 19 years, from the most experienced glass whore to the newbie with their brand new first long range precision rig, we treat them all the same, following the Golden Rule. And make them the best deal we can, always. We support the Hide!
There was a time years ago when I used to mix it up like this somewhat frequently, but Doug @ CamerlandNY taught me by example it is indeed counter-productive and unprofessional, and it's not something I will continue (even if a good old fashion pissing match is entertaining).
Good luck @Thumper580 in your quest, you asked a legitimate question and sorry for the thread drift, hopefully it was somewhat informative and/or entertaining
Peace out!
Ain't got no dog on this hunt.....could give a fuck if this or that.
But Scott....I DID look at your site and it's convoluted at best to get to the damn Steiner scopes page.
It's here (after digging thru shit that didn't look like a link)
You could certainly make that shit a ton easier to navigate.
I'm not in the market, but being perfectly honest here...that kinda shit puts me off from using a site.
The guy is right about that part, could give 2 shits about anything else.
But Scott....I DID look at your site and it's convoluted at best to get to the damn Steiner scopes page.
It's here (after digging thru shit that didn't look like a link)
You could certainly make that shit a ton easier to navigate.
I'm not in the market, but being perfectly honest here...that kinda shit puts me off from using a site.
The guy is right about that part, could give 2 shits about anything else.
(Cracks open an ice cold Otter Water) Happy Friday Night Hiders! Thanks for the kind words @406shootist, @jetmd , @Precision Underground, @gr8fuldoug, @Milf Dots. Let's not worry about Dylan Mulvaney anymore. Typical of the genre, he(?) doesn't seem to know who he is, what his message is, how to delivery it (first short and sweet, then profanity laced... and now he thinks he's Shakespeare with his long baseless tomes, lol) or even why he is doing it (helping the OP? Plugging for EV? Attacking us? Plugging for other vendors now? Bored and has no life? Shit. Just like a woman.) Dylan, you're an idiot. If you just did some cursory research you could see what the truth is, but you are too busy shooting off at the mouth trying to be a "professional button pusher", but it's your buttons that have been pushed
The thing is, I don't have to prove or explain myself to anybody. Twenty years in business and thousands of customers served, so many of them Hide members the last 19 years, from the most experienced glass whore to the newbie with their brand new first long range precision rig, we treat them all the same, following the Golden Rule. And make them the best deal we can, always. We support the Hide!
There was a time years ago when I used to mix it up like this somewhat frequently, but Doug @ CamerlandNY taught me by example it is indeed counter-productive and unprofessional, and it's not something I will continue (even if a good old fashion pissing match is entertaining).
Good luck @Thumper580 in your quest, you asked a legitimate question and sorry for the thread drift, hopefully it was somewhat informative and/or entertaining
Peace out!
That was a super cool story. Fine with calling Someone trash, but you clutch your pearls when someone says “fuck”
. Your insults don’t have the effect you’re hoping for. You’ve shown your true colors when someone isn’t going to buy anything from you. You found it more pertinent to sling mud and go on diatribes, that frankly don’t even make sense, rather than actually help the op You literally do nothing but buy optics, mark them up, and resell them. You provide no service, haven’t improved or created anything. Deep down you know you need this forum way more than it ever needed you. I’m sure door to door salesmen thought they’d never be replaced either. Go ahead and get the last word. I know this is eating at you. Meanwhile I’ll forget it ever happened. Although this thread did get me to go look at what’s available at EV and I just picked up a sweet deal on a t6xi 2.5-20x so thanks for that. You are useful for something!
jb0311-
Poor form dude. I highly recommend a lot more fiber in your diet - and get yourself a REAL girlfriend. You are acting pretty pissy over a non-problem...that YOU started as I read this thread. And - NOPE...I don't care what your response to me is. You are not important enough for a response from me. You have clearly shot your wad here with lots of people that just don't see the need for your bashing Liberty or any other vendor for that matter. Buy from who you want. But - let others do the same without denigrating somebody who has a sterling reputation in the optics biz because he gives a damn and will advise you honestly. THAT is worth a little extra. EVERY time. Expert voice ....? Yeah I could order from a website without any help or advice from them. But I won't. I prefer to deal with humans. And, specifically decent folks like Scott and Doug who offer top notch advice on products and give me great prices.
Poor form dude. I highly recommend a lot more fiber in your diet - and get yourself a REAL girlfriend. You are acting pretty pissy over a non-problem...that YOU started as I read this thread. And - NOPE...I don't care what your response to me is. You are not important enough for a response from me. You have clearly shot your wad here with lots of people that just don't see the need for your bashing Liberty or any other vendor for that matter. Buy from who you want. But - let others do the same without denigrating somebody who has a sterling reputation in the optics biz because he gives a damn and will advise you honestly. THAT is worth a little extra. EVERY time. Expert voice ....? Yeah I could order from a website without any help or advice from them. But I won't. I prefer to deal with humans. And, specifically decent folks like Scott and Doug who offer top notch advice on products and give me great prices.
Similar threads
