I'm going to get my license and start hunting next year. I have been browsing for a Thermal and there are so many options. I'm a buy once cry once type of guy but would take suggestions for budget friendly thermals as well.
Night Vision Best Thermal Scope for the money.
- Thread starter Biggfella00
- Start date
Lots of options.. what is your budget?
Don't really have a budget but I don't want to go over 8K
What do you think about the Patrol and LWTS?
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8 K opens alot of doors into higher end world of thermals.
There are various versions of the Patrol.. I have the M300W.
640, 12um pitch, 60hz (or 30hz if menu selected) 1x native
Great scanner, great image.. versatile..
Can be handheld, weapon mounted or head mounted.
I can see into woods while moving in a vehicle, quite easily, and clearly... while
scanning.
As many will attest, you will not find a quality actual collimated clip on thermal
for 8 k or under, unless you chance upon a used unit, such as a Lwts, which have
posted here on Hide recently..
There are various versions of the Patrol.. I have the M300W.
640, 12um pitch, 60hz (or 30hz if menu selected) 1x native
Great scanner, great image.. versatile..
Can be handheld, weapon mounted or head mounted.
I can see into woods while moving in a vehicle, quite easily, and clearly... while
scanning.
As many will attest, you will not find a quality actual collimated clip on thermal
for 8 k or under, unless you chance upon a used unit, such as a Lwts, which have
posted here on Hide recently..
I've owned a bunch of thermals in different varieties, the LWTS was by far the best. Great image, lots of features, and a holy shit-inducing image. I sold it because I moved out of hog country, but it was awesome. If you can make that budget $8400 then buy an LWTS from NV devices. Before dropping that kind of coin on a thermal device, make sure you will have time to actually use it. One of my regrets was only getting to go on a handful of hunts with it while I lived in Florida, should've used it a LOT more. Incredible device, though.
As to budget friendly ... probably the best starting point for a hunting usable thermal is the Pulsar Apex, either the 38mm or the 50mm ...
https://www.hueyoutdoors.com/product/apex-xq38-2-2-8-8x32-thermal-riflescope/
https://www.hueyoutdoors.com/product/apex-xq50-2-8-11-2x42-thermal-riflescope/
I know you said "buy once - cry once" ... but I'd say there is a time for that and there is a time for not that. In this case, you're first getting in to thermal ... many of us here have had Apex and can vouch for them ... they don't have all the bells and whistles ... built in video ... built in battery pack .. .that the trails do .. but these thermal scopes can get the job done ... and when I think of "best thermal scope for the money" ... these are definitely what pops into my head. Also, they hold their value. I have an Apex 38mm that is 3 years old and it is still worth 80% of what I paid for it. With the high end thermals, they don't hold value like that. So in this case, I'd definitely recommend starting with an Apex. If you really use it and like it, you'll find one thermal is not enough anyway, then you can step up to the next one and use the Apex as your loaner. That's what I did.
https://www.hueyoutdoors.com/product/apex-xq38-2-2-8-8x32-thermal-riflescope/
https://www.hueyoutdoors.com/product/apex-xq50-2-8-11-2x42-thermal-riflescope/
I know you said "buy once - cry once" ... but I'd say there is a time for that and there is a time for not that. In this case, you're first getting in to thermal ... many of us here have had Apex and can vouch for them ... they don't have all the bells and whistles ... built in video ... built in battery pack .. .that the trails do .. but these thermal scopes can get the job done ... and when I think of "best thermal scope for the money" ... these are definitely what pops into my head. Also, they hold their value. I have an Apex 38mm that is 3 years old and it is still worth 80% of what I paid for it. With the high end thermals, they don't hold value like that. So in this case, I'd definitely recommend starting with an Apex. If you really use it and like it, you'll find one thermal is not enough anyway, then you can step up to the next one and use the Apex as your loaner. That's what I did.
I know you just mentioned thermal but do you already have any night vision gear?
If not, I would highly recommend you get a combination of gear instead of one piece that takes your full budget.
For $8k you could get a decent setup that’s more well rounded for the full hunting trip, not just the shooting. Something like a pvs14 for navigation ($3k), a handheld thermal for spotting ($2k) and a rifle mounted thermal for shooting ($3k).
And with a combination of tools like that you get a lot more options of how to hunt particular game and conditions.
If not, I would highly recommend you get a combination of gear instead of one piece that takes your full budget.
For $8k you could get a decent setup that’s more well rounded for the full hunting trip, not just the shooting. Something like a pvs14 for navigation ($3k), a handheld thermal for spotting ($2k) and a rifle mounted thermal for shooting ($3k).
And with a combination of tools like that you get a lot more options of how to hunt particular game and conditions.
I agree with the get a combination of gear philosophy. The Trijicon units have shockingly good resolution though. Keep in mind we are only a 1-3 years from new thermal units equalling or surpassing current Trijicon REAP units as 1280x720 imagers inevitably make their way into consumer products and digital image upscaling of 640 images onto 1280x720 OLEDs improves. While a great Trijicon image today will still be great tomorrow, it is likely you will be able to get the same image quity for less. NV is pretty mature and you cant really improve much there so a higher end NV unit makes more sense niw with a budget thermal you can upgrade in a year or three might be a better route overall.
It works also ... I'd lump it in with the Apex ... though FLIR CS has had and sustained a poor reputation both before and after the merger. If I had a predator, I'd keep using it, if I didn't and wanted something in that space, I'd get a Apex.
I have a 35mm IR Hunter that I am quite happy with. It's greyscale, no fancy red pictures. I'm not saying it's the best by any means, but I'm very satisfied with it. I got it for $5500 a few years ago. $6000 now. At the time I bought them all they said was US Night Vision. Now they seem to be Trijicon. No idea what's up with that.
I would definitely get a thermal scope and a thermal monocular. Swing your rifle around to see gets old quick.
I've had a couple pulsars. One being the apex xq50 and loved it. Perfect FOV in my opinion with the 2.8 base mag. And a really good picture, easy to use. Sold it to a buddy and got a flir pts536 which is also a really good unit with a lot of features for the money. Gave up some field of view but identification at long range is easy. The flir is definitely a beefier unit. Seems well built and could take some abuse. The pulsars are mainly plastic. Might hold off for a little while. Pulsar coming out with new line that looks very promising.
I just picked up the Pulsar XQ50 LRF....OMG! I can't wait to go zero it. Just took it to scan with the other night and oh I am excited.
Oasys products by FAR. Not even close. If you think otherwise chances are person hasn’t tried them
I have trijicon Mark 2 35mm. Love it and almost traded for xp50 trail. But realized would of been disappointed with loss of ability to range at longer Distance and giving up clarity
I think best bang for buck is xp50 trail if I was just getting my first thermal
I like their built in recording and pip
I think best bang for buck is xp50 trail if I was just getting my first thermal
I like their built in recording and pip
I have owned 2 LWTS units and it does have amazing resolution and if you can find a video cable it does Outstanding for recording video . However, The cost for a LWTS will be above your budget of $ 8K for a new unit and the LWTS only has a 1 year warranty. I have switched to the Trijicon Thermals. I started out with the REAP-IR 35mm , Patrol M250 Monocular and I added the Mark III 60mm. The Mark III 60mm is what I like best since I sometimes want tor shoot longer shots but you do give up some FOV with the higher Magnification. The REAP IR 35mm should be within your budget and would be a great unit, the MK III 60 mm might be in your budget with some negotiation and Trijicon units come with a 3 year warranty.
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Actually, the trijicon warranty covers the housing, lenses, ,knobs, buttons etc. for the lifetime of the original owner. The "electronics" ... i.e. microbolometer, core and display are covered for three years for the original owner.
https://www.trijiconeo.com/contact/
that's for the trijicon units from the entity formerly known as IRD.
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If trijicon ever actually releases any of the "OASYS" units ... those will have a one year warranty.
http://www.trijiconoasys.com/contact.html
https://www.trijiconeo.com/contact/
that's for the trijicon units from the entity formerly known as IRD.
==
If trijicon ever actually releases any of the "OASYS" units ... those will have a one year warranty.
http://www.trijiconoasys.com/contact.html
I totally agree with this. I was ready for a thermal clip-on or dedicated scope but I told myself to wait a few years and keep playing with NV until thermal catches up. PC Gaming is typically done on 140hz+ monitors.. when switching to monitor like 60hz (same hz as a REAP-IR) some games become unplayable. It felt weird dropping 8k on something 60hz
If you go commercial. REAP IR (Trijicon) is hard to beat. However, if you can get your hands on a used UTM or UTM-X that would be the ticket for me. It has internal IR/VIS lasers plus digital compass and built like a tank. Better ergonomic design (for gloved or non gloved hands) and run smoother.
for the money Pulsar with LRF...
Been looking at the Pulsar LRF hard and talking with a couple of users. They have had nothing but positive comments. That being said, I believe they are using them as both a hand-held scanner and scope. I'm a newbie to this, so I have to ask....is using these type of models both for scanning and then quick attach/detach to your rifle when needed a practical and good solution? That would sure ease the pressure of the purchase
Yes, I do use my Pulsar for both scanning and shooting when I bring a second shooter along and need a second thermal sight to put on my ride-along’s weapon (I have an older Zeus that never leaves my sbr). Good thing about the Pulsar Trail for scanning - I mount it on a monopod, periscope it out the sunroof and wifi the image to an iPad. Makes it easy to cover a lot of ground when checking different fields & places.
My Pulsar has the upgraded single lever qd mount that Sellmark sells for $100 or dealers throw in as a sweetener, and it’s just ok for transitioning to weapon, but not near as quick and reliable as the DLOC mount similar to what I have on my old pvs14. However the DLOC for a Pulsar runs $250 and since my Pulsar only occasionally gets dual-role use I haven’t sprung for that DLOC Mount yet. But I f I were needing to transition quickly to weapon after stalking in close to a sounder (like I used to do with pvs14, pre-thermal days) then I would definitely get a DLOC mount for the Pulsar.
My Pulsar has the upgraded single lever qd mount that Sellmark sells for $100 or dealers throw in as a sweetener, and it’s just ok for transitioning to weapon, but not near as quick and reliable as the DLOC mount similar to what I have on my old pvs14. However the DLOC for a Pulsar runs $250 and since my Pulsar only occasionally gets dual-role use I haven’t sprung for that DLOC Mount yet. But I f I were needing to transition quickly to weapon after stalking in close to a sounder (like I used to do with pvs14, pre-thermal days) then I would definitely get a DLOC mount for the Pulsar.
@Dev L , have you heard anything about a timeline for thermals to upgrade their resolution?
@DODGER03 , also have you heard a timeline on the pulsar line?
I'm currently in the process of purchasing a Trail XP38 and I hope I'm not jumping the gun. Of course I don't expect that quality thermal prices will really come down too much from where they're at. Any thoughts from anyone? @wigwamitus from what I can tell, you're the resident expert on all things thermal
Well, as to thermal prices coming down ... in the six years I've been playing with them, thermal prices for hunting usable gear have dropped by almost 70% (from $6k down to $2.5k) ... and in the long run that will continue. Though over the past couple of years (after the pulsar prices stabilized the market at a new low price) things have held steady. "Punctuated Equilibrium" ... as in it drops fast in a short period ... and then holds steady for a longer period.
There are some new widgets coming out that will push the price down in some areas ... so keep watching ... but don't be afraid to buy ... there is always something new coming
There are some new widgets coming out that will push the price down in some areas ... so keep watching ... but don't be afraid to buy ... there is always something new coming
Well, as to thermal prices coming down ... in the six years I've been playing with them, thermal prices for hunting usable gear have dropped by almost 70% (from $6k down to $2.5k) ... and in the long run that will continue. Though over the past couple of years (after the pulsar prices stabilized the market at a new low price) things have held steady. "Punctuated Equilibrium" ... as in it drops fast in a short period ... and then holds steady for a longer period.
There are some new widgets coming out that will push the price down in some areas ... so keep watching ... but don't be afraid to buy ... there is always something new coming
The main reason I have any reservations about buying is because it's so damn expensive! I am pretty set on this Trail XP38, the seller and I have already reached an agreement. It's my first thermal and I plan on using it for hog hunting. The only other tools I have would be a pretty decent chinese light (green). Not sure how I am going to go about spotting them yet, using the thermal only, or trying to spot them with a light and use the thermal to confirm ID and shoot.
So much data to process. I agree find a mix of NV & Thermal. Scanning with that rifle is going to get old fast.
Enjoy the night.
Enjoy the night.
If budget allows for only one thermal or pvs-14, my advice is forget the light, use that $ to upgrade to the DLOC mount for the Pulsar and use it for both spotting and shooting. Practice the transition (in the dark) from handheld or spotter pole to weapon - it only takes a couple seconds when you get it down.
I know some people "poo poo" holding up the rifle to scan ... but that's been by primary modus operandi for 5 years ... only this last year did I start using the tripod primarily at night. But for the most part, I've used thermals mounted on carbines and held up. I rest my elbows on my chest for support and hold the magazine with my trigger hand. I can walk and/or do 360s while walking and holding up.
Now full kit has thermals on my head ...
But when I've just gone out to patrol around the coop, often I just take the carbine by itself and hold up. And that one shown has been #1 for several years ... before that ... another similar one. I have three "Carbines" (a.k.a. sbr in ATF speak).
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Nothing wrong with the trail xp38 ... I still have my olde XD38 Apex from 3.5 years ago and it still works fine. The plus of the 38 over the 50 (and I've had 2 x 50s and 1x75) is the FOV ... and for around the coop, FOV is king !!
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Here's a setup from three years ago ... same idea ... but different crap ...
Now full kit has thermals on my head ...
But when I've just gone out to patrol around the coop, often I just take the carbine by itself and hold up. And that one shown has been #1 for several years ... before that ... another similar one. I have three "Carbines" (a.k.a. sbr in ATF speak).
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Nothing wrong with the trail xp38 ... I still have my olde XD38 Apex from 3.5 years ago and it still works fine. The plus of the 38 over the 50 (and I've had 2 x 50s and 1x75) is the FOV ... and for around the coop, FOV is king !!
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Here's a setup from three years ago ... same idea ... but different crap ...
My recommendation would definitely be a combo of both nv and thermal. All is dependent on the property's. Why I say that is I hunt a lot of different properties and will cover many miles driving blacked out during a night. Sometimes in a truck, sometimes in a side by side, thermal doesn't work through glass and doesn't work well for navigating and being able to see terrain features like nv can. So I use a pvs14 on my right eye and a Flir Breach on my left. Driving is easy with the 14 and can scan out the window with the Breach. I'm strong right eye dominant so I'm really not seeing the thermal at all until I close my right eye.
With that being said, a used pvs14 or 7 can be had for a very reasonable price then put the rest on a thermal. The xp50 would be a solid choice some of my friends have them. I've got the Reap ir and love it but it's around your whole budget. The N-vision Halo is pretty badass as well. Looked through one a few months ago and the image was comparable if not slightly better than the Trijicon.
With that being said, a used pvs14 or 7 can be had for a very reasonable price then put the rest on a thermal. The xp50 would be a solid choice some of my friends have them. I've got the Reap ir and love it but it's around your whole budget. The N-vision Halo is pretty badass as well. Looked through one a few months ago and the image was comparable if not slightly better than the Trijicon.
60hz is plenty fast. That comparison doesn't make sense.
You can get a T50 for $3500-4000. They are perfectly fine for close range to 2-300 yards. Wide fov and rated to .50bmg. Can be used standalone or clip on.
No group buys lol but there's one for $3800 in the for sale section. Couple LNIB Peq2's too
$$$$$$$ It never stops.
Work, Save, Spend, Rest & Repeat. Capitalism at its finest hour.
Work, Save, Spend, Rest & Repeat. Capitalism at its finest hour.
If your budget is 8K NVision HALO LR and end this thread.
If you want "best bang for your buck and the most features" Pulsar XP50. The prices they are going for new is pretty crazy.
If you want "best bang for your buck and the most features" Pulsar XP50. The prices they are going for new is pretty crazy.
Reading comprehension would have served me well on this one.. Y'all can stop laughing and rolling your eyes now.
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