Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

[Forgetful Coyote]

Obviously this will be a very opinionated question. But what would be yall`s favorite old service rounds? EXCLUDING .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua Mag, .308/7.62x51mm, .50 BMG..

And on average, what rifle would yall say was consistently the most accurate from the period of the Vietnam War and earlier, not including the M40, M14, AR-15/AR-10. Obviously you have good shooters and bad shooters in every batch, blah blah blah, but on average what wouldve been the most accurate and what wouldve been your choice if you had to choose one from 1890-1960 not including those listed above. Feel free to list personal best loads acheived. Pics wouldnt be that bad either.

Thanks yall

 

[RSA-Raven]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I think Mauser K98 in 7x57 was a good rifle/cal combination.

 

[Andy Warhog]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I like the 303 brit. You can pick up an enfield parker hale went over for pretty cheap, and they're not bad. I want to see what they can do with some handloads and a decent barrel. Huber makes a trigger for them too I believe

 

[TorF]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Nothing can touch the 6.5x55 as THE vintage long range caliber.

Even today it'd difficult to beat the current 6.5x55 factory match ammo available in Scandinavia. The Norma Elite field target round has a 130gr, BC=.550@2950fps. This round is safe in the old Mauser M96/M41 sniper. Compare these ballistics to the .300winmag/190gr SMK..

The factory 6.5x55 140gr target rounds duplicate the ballistics of the new issue 300winmag with 220gr SMK.

 

[MJ1]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

6.5X55 I have a friend in the UK who has won the nationals using the 41b he will cut center half the shots at 900M.

 

[longrange223]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

ditto on the 6.5x55,hard to beat even today...

 

[HBAM1]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

30/06 filled the bill for years.
If i recall, the most famous US sniper, Carlos H, used a 30/06 remington 700 or winchester 70 sporter style hunting rifle with redfield scope to obtain most of his legendary kills.
its a classic, imo one of the best.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Some very notable rounds stick out in my mind. First is the WWII K98K 7,92mm that the Germans used. Although they are most notable in WWI (150 gr. Spitzer) for amping up the 'sniper' designation it was really WWII (198 gr. Spitzer) where they showed their best. And specifically on this round, because the bullet was designed to stay stable out to 2500m. Although the intent was to fire it from a machine gun, it worked outstanding from a sniper rifle. Aimed kills up to 1500m.
Second is the Swiss GP-11 Accurized Swiss 1911's and K-31's Could easily run 2km accurately. 174 gr. bullet a full 1/4" longer and pointer than the closest American 175 gr.
Next, I go with the 6.5x55. While I've owned and shot them to 1k, I've never done it with a Swedish or Norwegian dedicated sniper/match round so I don't know how well they would do. I did shoot mine with Norma Golden target, but only loaded to 2800 fps. That out of my CZ-550 and my CG-63.
In fourth place as a sniper round but still pretty impressive is the 7x57. While sharpshooters were employed, true dedicated "snipers" were not in the Spanish American War when the U.S. went against the Spanish at San Jaun and Kettle hills. The Spanish were making kills at 2000m. This was not a sniper/marksman operation though. The U.S. had lined up in formation (like they did in the Civil War) and began moving forward on the hill. The Spanish basically fired into the formation.
However, as our South African compadre noted, the 7x57 was used as a "sniper" rifle in the Boer Wars. Aimed engagements/ambushes were conducted as far away as 1000m with good success. The re-issueing of the classic hunting rifles to the best shots was paramount to this success.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

If you check with the CMP guys, you'll find M1903a3/a4s winning most of the Vintage Sniper Matches.

In the Vintage GSM matches, the Springfields have their own catagory, and if you compare the Garand, Springfield and Vintage Military (All Others) againt the Springfields scores are higher.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Wow, see thats one Ive heard of but really not very much mention of as far as historic snipers, the 7.5x55 Swiss in the K31. For those who have shot both, how would yall say the K31 compares to the M96 Swede? And of course the 03, I meant to ask, with the Garand dont you have to be cautious of not going too much over 2800fps with 155gr bullets or something like that with it? Is this due "over-gassing" the operating mechanism or simply strength of the design? Can the 1903 handle full-tilt .30-06 loads? Whats yalls favorite loads?

Also, with the Swede, can it handle full power 6.5x55 loads? What velocity are yall getting with the Swede with 140gr bullets?

With the Swiss, is the 7.5mm bore the same diameter as an American 7.62? IE can it shoot American .30cal projos? Also, whats the BC of that 174gr bullet you referenced Mr Sandwarrior and what velocity can be acheived/whats a good accuracy node with it?

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can the 1903 handle full-tilt .30-06 loads?</div></div>

You bet they can. A many 1903 Springfields have been converted to 300 Mag Case.

(Assuming of course we're not talking about the low number Springfields and Rock Islands).

 

[MJ1]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I see once again we have run hard up against closed minds or lack of experience outside gram pa's box and little or no imagination. Until you try you try something new you will ever be stuck with something old even if good. LOL I dearly love the 3006 but it's not the only game in the world but it is what most of your CMP vintage guys have the most time with. It should be no surprise they have developed not just the ammo but the skills to use it. All credit to them. But don't limit your selves by specializing.

 

[lash]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJ1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see once again we have run hard up against closed minds or lack of experience outside gram pa's box and little or no imagination. Until you try you try something new you will ever be stuck with something old even if good. LOL I dearly love the 3006 but it's not the only game in the world but it is what most of your CMP vintage guys have the most time with. It should be no surprise they have developed not just the ammo but the skills to use it. All credit to them. But don't limit your selves by specializing.

</div></div>
Wow! Love your collection! Very, very nice!

Thanks for the pic.

 

[HANDYMAN]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I myself love the k31, but the 30-06 is another that's tough to beat. The 1903 variants are super accurate but the k31 will beat them almost every time. In my opinion of course.

 

[az_paul]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

A great thread with much useful information!

 

[bob7-08]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

A sharp in 45-90,i saw one at the range shooting steel with iron sight at 500 m,very impressive!

 

[Devious6]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I am sold on my Mosin Nagant 91/30 snipers. Handload 7.62X54r with 174gn HPBT bullets can hang with anyone, IMHO.

 

[Joop]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Very subjective topic!

Like Devious, I like the 91/30 snipers, too. However, I also have a K98 SSR clone and an Enfield No.4 Mk.I (T). For their intended purpose, they're all more than adequate and pretty much the same in terms of ability. You can split hairs on paper for accuracy and people will have their preferences for whatever suits them, be it in caliber, rifle design, or optics. Another facet of this discussion is what period/type of ammo you're talking about. Vintage spec ammo vs. handloads is really two different worlds and the difference can change everything. Also, I don't find it a fair comparison when you're talking about the current CMP Vintage Sniper competitions, as a lot of those competitors are using custom built guns with new barrels and optics and in combination with carefully crafted handloads using modern bullets of much better consistency. There's hardly anything "vintage" left in the equation anymore. For the guys who are running true vintage rifles, I applaud them for keeping it in the spirit of the event.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very subjective topic!

Like Devious, I like the 91/30 snipers, too. However, I also have a K98 SSR clone and an Enfield No.4 Mk.I (T). For their intended purpose, they're all more than adequate and pretty much the same in terms of ability. You can split hairs on paper for accuracy and people will have their preferences for whatever suits them, be it in caliber, rifle design, or optics. Another facet of this discussion is what period/type of ammo you're talking about. Vintage spec ammo vs. handloads is really two different worlds and the difference can change everything. Also, I don't find it a fair comparison when you're talking about the current CMP Vintage Sniper competitions, as a lot of those competitors are using custom built guns with new barrels and optics and in combination with carefully crafted handloads using modern bullets of much better consistency. There's hardly anything "vintage" left in the equation anymore. For the guys who are running true vintage rifles, I applaud them for keeping it in the spirit of the event. </div></div>

Joop,

Good point. That is why I specified vintage ammunition. Is the Norma Golden target design a later addition or was it introduced pre-1960? The VLD style says to me post '90 or so.

TorF? ...any ideas?

Something else to consider is total function. Remembering that a snipers world is a combat world, you would still like to have speed of cycle and quantity on your side in case the need arises for more than one target or follow up shot. In which case, I'd have to go with the Enfield as the best all-around combat/sniper weapon. Excellent long range is nice. But, as study after study has shown, most kills are within 600m. Follow up shots, would in most cases be required. I believe the L42 is tops in both of those categories for what we are talking about.

<span style="color: #000099">Added:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbhotrodder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

........

With the Swiss, is the 7.5mm bore the same diameter as an American 7.62? IE can it shoot American .30cal projos? Also, whats the BC of that 174gr bullet you referenced Mr Sandwarrior and what velocity can be acheived/whats a good accuracy node with it? </div></div>

jbhotrodder,

Originally the 7.5x55 ammunition was a .300/304 bore. Now it is a .300/.308. I think that change was made with the GP-11. And yes, that is correct two diameters. From the ogive a ways back it's. .300 and the back bearing surface is .308. This does not preclude you from using .308 bullets. The velocity when I last chronoed my mine was around 2625 fps IIRC.</span>

 

[MJ1]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

What Joop said +1

 

[Joop]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

While I do have some experience with 6.5x55, it's not as much as some others, so I would defer to them.

With regards to some of the other points you've brought up, I would agree that the Enfield is a solid choice for the reasons you mentioned. In regards to optics, this is one of the reasons I like the Soviet scopes so much. They are easier to zero to POA/POI than a lot of their contemporaries and can be done so quickly in one or two shots in most cases. While I love Mausers and, in particular, the K98, the optics and mounts of that period do not allow for any fine adjustments of windage "on the fly". So, you're left with holding off for windage. Some people don't mind this and I have even become accustomed to doing it, myself. However, If I shoot a M91/30 PE, PEM, or PU sniper first, then switch to the K98 in the same range session, it's enough to get me frustrated and ask myself "What were they thinking?".

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

jbhotrodder,

The listed G1 BC of GP-11 is .496. I believe it is much better than that. I've compared it to roughly equivalent bullets of .480 G1 and it beats them handily. In fact @ 1000 yds. I have to drop my sight setting from 900m to 800m going from M118 FMJ to GP-11. The length of the ogive is .670 compared to M118 which is about .600 (roughly measured).

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't find it a fair comparison when you're talking about the current CMP Vintage Sniper competitions, as a lot of those competitors are using custom built guns with new barrels and optics and in combination with carefully crafted handloads using modern bullets of much better consistency. There's hardly anything "vintage" left in the equation anymore.</div></div>

That may be true to a point, but when we move to the GSM (Garand Springfield & Military) matches.

The CMP Achievement Awards have cut off scores. The Cut off for Gold, Silver, and Bronze Medals is higher for the Springfields then they are for the "all other" Vintage Military Rifles...they are even a bit higher then the Garand cut off scores.

There is a reason the Army chose the 1903 action for their Mann devices used to test ammo.

Personally my favorate is the '98 Krag, but I know when push comes to shove it can't outshoot my '03-a3.

 

[Joop]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Kraig, I know where you're coming from. I shoot GSM matches with a variety of different rifles (including my 03-A3) and VS matches, so far, with the 91/30s (but probably will try my K98 and No.4(T) this year, as well). The Springfield is one of the most <span style="font-style: italic">consistently</span> accurate platforms, for sure. However, some days it just comes down to the shooter, too.

In the first match I shot last year, there were 25 shooters. Most of them had Garands and '03s with a few oddballs thrown in, including me with my '43 Sako M39. I shot the highest score out of all of us, despite the fact that it was pouring cats and dogs by the last relay, when it was my turn to shoot.

In the only VS match that I got to shoot last year, my brother and I won it, despite the fact that we were shooting against Springfields, including at least one 8x Unertl. Why? because I had spent almost every single day in the preceding year out shooting. Sometimes it's not just the rifle. Like I said, it's subjective.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I like the .30-'06, but as with all service rifles, I think it's crucial to start with an understanding of the rifle's intended performance, and to live within the limits of attainable goals.

As the '06 goes, I never believed the Garand was intended for precision accuracy, and simply put, the Springfield '03 is about 4-5 pounds shy of a good weight that makes the recoil of sustained rifle marksmanship practice tolerable and practical.

I know I'm biased, but the 7.62x54R has some likeable points. Russian Official Literature cites the Mosin-Nagant 91/30 rifle as being customarily capable of Infantry Grade accuracy to 400M, and Sniper Grade accuracy to 800M. I'd add another 20% to those distances with good ammo and a good shooter.

The surplus ammo, steelcase Spammo with bimetal bullets, is still mighty cheap and plentiful, I bought bulk this month at what computed out as $.23/round, including tax and shipping. Taken separately, the components are surprisingly good quality (I speak of 1970's LPS Light Ball from Novosibirsk/Plant 188 in particular), and I find that simply collet pulling the bullets, remetering the powder to the published 49.1gr charge, and reseating the bullets to the longer limit of published OAL spec results in ammo that shoots better in an old, Plain-Mamushka 1943 Izshevsk 91/30 with iron sights than I ever believed I was capable of.

My only accommodation to modernity is an Uncle Mike's slip-on recoil pad, and that mainly to cope with my longer arms, and the 91/30's stock design that intentionally accommodates Russian Conscripts wearing multilayer warm clothes, guarding the Czar/Politburo from their Siberian outposts. At just under 9lb empty weight, the 91/30 and slightly smaller than '06 cartridge makes the Springy '03 feel like Thor's Hammer by comparison.

It's simply a revelation. I am not quite ready yet to admit to any epiphanies. I bought another pair of 91/30's for my Grandkids to learn 'real rifle' marksmanship on. We're gonna go all-whoop-ass on paper Zombies starting after this Spring's thaw.

PPU (Prvi-Partizan) and Winchester sell Boxer/brass ammo, and I find that 49gr of IMR-4064, CCI-200 primers and HDY 150 gr '303 cal.' Interlocks are both accurate and very effective on deer-size game. TulAmmo steelcase 150gr FMJ is onhand for any '2A Contingencies'.

Greg

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Wow, thanks a lot yall. Im really looking to get an old vintage service rifle, preferably one thats not bubba`d to heck and back and not just one. Are any of the old bolt action war horses free-floated from the factory? I imagine it would decrease value but have any of yall had your vintage rifles free floated/glass bedded/any trigger work?

What is it that you have to watch out for when choosing ammo for the Garand? Will it "over-gas" the system with too hot a loads or ??

Also, for anyone that has/shoots of the NON-Garand WWII era semi autos, how do you like it? For example the G-43, SVT-40, AG m/42, etc; hows the accuracy and is the reliability really as terrible as documented?

If you were to just pick one randomly out of the many original-spec K98s/G98s, such as one from James River, what kinda groups could be expected if the shooter does his part?

For anyone with a 8mm Mauser, how would you rate the 8mm bullet selection? Is there some decent VLDs out there? Whats your favorite accuracy load?

Also, does anyone have any pics of groups/targets that theyve printed at 600-800+ yds with their old service rifles?

And out of all of them what would yall say has the best(easiest to get most accuracy from) peep/aperture sights?

Thanks so much

 

[HBAM1]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJ1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see once again we have run hard up against closed minds or lack of experience outside gram pa's box and little or no imagination. Until you try you try something new you will ever be stuck with something old even if good. LOL I dearly love the 3006 but it's not the only game in the world but it is what most of your CMP vintage guys have the most time with. It should be no surprise they have developed not just the ammo but the skills to use it. All credit to them. But don't limit your selves by specializing.

</div></div>

awesome collection, how often do you bring these babies to the range?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

My experience with the Garand is that it's a rock-solid do-no-wrong Main Battle Rifle. 2MOA with surplus ammo is actually a very good performance. You can get a lot closer to 1MOA with glassbedding and handloads using 50gr of IMR4064, HDY 150gr FMJBT, Rem brass and CCI-200's. Mine is a September 1941 Pre-War SA with aftermarket match sights, glassbedding, and an extended solid rubber butt pad; and no longer qualifies as a bonafide 'Service Rifle'. It's an exquisite shooter (for a Garand). One way or another, I will die still owning it.

The Garand, and M1903A3 peep sights rate way up there, IMHO.

The SVT-40 is no Garand. Shoots pretty well, but has a reputation for being delicate/fragile. I never found a no-gunsmithing scope mount that would stay put, and I flatly refuse to do metalwork modifications to vintage service weapons. It responded well to glassbedding along the same lines as how you'd do a Garand. Never tried either wrapping the barrel or floating it. I tried some handloads using Varget and .308/175SMK's with OK accuracy. I left the project when my Daughter divorced the SVT's owner. I think it might run better with 155 Palma SMK's. The rifle has the benefit(?) of an adjustable gas valve.

The 91/30 actually performs better (for me) with the old Russian Conscript's accurizer method; wrapping the barrel with leather strips just beneath the stock where the two stock bands rest. I do mine with 2mm thick Foamies neoprene foam, and accuracy is damned good with that. I couldn't begin to figure out how to reliably float a 91/30 barrel without resorting to major surgery.

The very basic notch and post/globe 91/30 sights work fine for me. I make no efforts to correct the natural higher POI; the Russian/Soviet training regimen stressed a belt-buckle POA, and that delivers MOH (Minute of Hostiles) hits exactly as required. Sights were regulated at the regimental level using the bayonet mounted, and non-bayonet POI's can be off to the (left?) side a little bit. The front sight can be tapped (lightly) sideways (if it shoots to the left of POA, tap the front sight to the left, etc.) to resolve this.

Greg

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jbhotrodder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, thanks a lot yall. Im really looking to get an old vintage service rifle, preferably one thats not bubba`d to heck and back and not just one. Are any of the old bolt action war horses free-floated from the factory? I imagine it would decrease value but have any of yall had your vintage rifles free floated/glass bedded/any trigger work?

What is it that you have to watch out for when choosing ammo for the Garand? Will it "over-gas" the system with too hot a loads or ??

Also, for anyone that has/shoots of the NON-Garand WWII era semi autos, how do you like it? For example the G-43, SVT-40, AG m/42, etc; hows the accuracy and is the reliability really as terrible as documented?

If you were to just pick one randomly out of the many original-spec K98s/G98s, such as one from James River, what kinda groups could be expected if the shooter does his part?

<span style="font-weight: bold">For anyone with a 8mm Mauser, how would you rate the 8mm bullet selection? Is there some decent VLDs out there? Whats your favorite accuracy load?</span>

Also, does anyone have any pics of groups/targets that theyve printed at 600-800+ yds with their old service rifles?

<span style="font-weight: bold">And out of all of them what would yall say has the best(easiest to get most accuracy from) peep/aperture sights</span>?

Thanks so much</div></div>

jbhotrodder,

As far as 8mm today goes, there is NOT a great selection to choose from. The closest 'match/sniper' ammo you can get in regular quantities is Yugo M75. It shoots a bullet very close to what the Germans used, but 200 fps slower.

For reloading, there is the Nosler 8mm Custom Competition, which is accurate but doesn't have the super high BC, Same with the Sierra 200 gr. SMK. They both transition well through the transonic region and maintain accuracy, but they are falling like rocks much beyond 1200. The Sierra 220 gr. SBT is actually an outstanding bullet for long range shooting. It can also be pushed from the Mauser case @ 2500-2600 fps. Most loading books won't go near those pressures, so I suggest you work up to what your rifle will shoot. Find accuracy, these bullets won't go radically unstable. FWIW, Sierra used to make a 150 gr. and 175 gr. SMK, if you can find those anymore.

In general, I would have to say peeps are more accurate than standard. But, in the case of the K-31, there were some cuts made that help with aiming better. Most all of the K-31's used in competition in Switzerland have highly modified peep sights to get the most out of those rifles.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Thanks a lot yall. Does anyone know if there were ever any K98s/G98s chambered for 7x57? Thats what Id really like to get. Ive basically got it narrowed down to either a M96 Swede, M41/41b, Springfield 03, M1917, or Garand. I also havent eliminated a K31/1911. If I could get a 98 in 7x57 that would probably be my first choice though. Also, for yall with Enfields, could yall list some of your favorite accuracy loads/velocities? What would you compare the Enfields recoil to? Also, I recently saw an original Eddystone 1917(or atleast original looking) at a gunshow, how would yall rate the 1917 compared to the 1903 and the .303 Enfields overall as far as accuracy, quality, sights, etc?

Im not too concerned with putting a scope on it right away, I love peep/aperture sights and would like to get accustomed to the rifle with irons before putting a scope on it. Also, Im not just put anything on it, its gonna be a period correct/country correct scope so Im going to wait for the right one to show up on the market.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

jbhotrodder,

Most of the South American countries had 7x57 model '98's. No problem finding a 'model 98' in 7x57. The best of those are the Mexicans; 1910, and 1936. Those two models were made in Mexico and are about the best small ring out there. Don't ask me why gunsmiths rate their actions higher than the Swedes, but they do. The M1924 Mexican is an FN import. They are of good quality and the same as most any other FN-24. Steyr also made them for Chile (1912) Deutsch WaffenMunitions Fabriken made the vast majority of South American Mausers. And, most of them are Model 98's. The Czechs made the next most (a lot) and you find them as 98/22's VZ-24's,

Now if you are talking a 'German' WWII era "K-98" they were made also. But rare enough that you'll need to come up with several thousand dollars to get one, if you can find one. And, if you touch it (start hacking it up) you'll be dragged from your house at night and tortured. Just sayin'....

They were made on a <span style="text-decoration: underline">very limited</span> basis. Not a whole lot different than the K98 in 7.92 but for a special few.*

* Ball, "<span style="text-decoration: underline">Mauser Military Rifles of the World</span>" 4th Ed.

 

[Joop]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Sandwarrior has some good info on the Mausers. I would also add that most 7mm Mausers are going to be actions other than the '98. You'll have to research them, as there are many variations/origins.

Enfield rifles are a delight, in my opinion. While I have owned a couple M1917 rifles, they never felt anything like a British Enfield, to me. They feel more "clunky" in the action and seem more bulky, in general. I don't have any weight specs in front of me to compare with and there may even be no real difference, but it's just the way they feel, to me. Now, having said that, I like the aperture sights on the M1917 and they're certainly very accurate if you get one with a nice bore.

British Enfields in .303 are just as accurate, but don't usually have the same amount of recoil as their American cousins. The Enfield Jungle Carbines, however, can kick like a mule. If I had to carry a WW1/2 era bolt action into a "situation", my pick would be the No.4 Mk.I. I like the combination of ten rounds, super fast action and aperture sights. There are plenty of rifles that will do certain things better, but the No.4 is my favorite "all 'round".

Enfields will vary in their barrel style and the amount of lands/grooves. Most people will tell you that they'll shoot best with a flat based bullet, but that's not always the case. Or, at least, some of them will shoot just fine with BTs. I have great luck with the 174 SMK and 180 Sierra SP over Varget. Prvi is my favorite brass for .303, which is a caliber that is very hard on brass.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

jbhotrodder,

I did forget to add there will also be a number 7x57's that are 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895 and 1896. Each year/model incorporating differences before the 'big change' to the model '98. That is what Joop is talking about. I'd say most of the 7x57's out there are model '98's. But there is still quite a few of the models I mentioned above.

Edit:

Spanish 1916's, which you will see a lot of, are actually a variation of, or reworked, 1895.

 

[MJ1]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

I have shot a 7mm '96 and thought it was super accurate. I have a vintage box of 50 AB. NORMA PROJEKTILFFABRIK 156GR. 7mm pills on my desk but nothing to shoot them in. Very long bullet with gilded plat and soft point. Just cool to look at.

 

[B3dlam]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

At a recent tactical precision rifle competition I shot one of the guys brought vintage bolt gun shooting 6.5x55 swede granted the competition was all inside of 500 yards due to range limitations but the guy placed relatively well. A lot of it was shooter but that round served him well I was quite impressed especially considering he was competing against guys shooting all vareties of modern tactical rifles.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

Another one to think about is the 7.65x53 1909 Argentino. I've seen pictures of the sniper version and were told they were very accurate. Of course, all the components were German; scope, claw/turret style rings, rifle.

<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit:

I've shot my 1909's out to 1k and they have been very accurate. but that was open sights. Again, I have never shot the sniper version.</span>

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Re: Best vintage long range calibers/rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A78063</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJ1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see once again we have run hard up against closed minds or lack of experience outside gram pa's box and little or no imagination. Until you try you try something new you will ever be stuck with something old even if good. LOL I dearly love the 3006 but it's not the only game in the world but it is what most of your CMP vintage guys have the most time with. It should be no surprise they have developed not just the ammo but the skills to use it. All credit to them. But don't limit your selves by specializing.

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awesome collection, how often do you bring these babies to the range?</div></div>

Yes, fantastic collection.