• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes BigJimFish Shot Show 2017 coverage thread

BigJimFish

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 24, 2011
1,000
704
42
Columbus, OH
So, SnipersHide is back up and running on it's own from it's time at Scout. I started this thread over there and will be bringing the content here to stay. It's good to be back. I will also be back up as a contributor, writing reviews and articles for that section of the site. It's funny, SnipersHide's time a Scout almost perfectly corresponded to the time I didn't do much with rifles and optics after my first child was born. The format and date stamps of this may look a little strange as some of it was posted last month and I am only migrating over only the large article sections not others or my responses.

Anyhow, this shot coverage will be roughly broken into the following little articles:

1) Shot Show day at the range 2017

2) Laser rangefinders and ballistic calculation

3) 2017, the year of the affordable long range scope

4) Running the isles, brief company specific comments on optics from Shot 2017

5) Caliber change rifles and choke tubes (this may be spun into a whole article)

6) Stocks: Chasis, fiberglass, plastic

7) Sundries things I saw

Hope you all enjoy and participate in the discussion.
 
So I'm back to Shot Show this year after taking a couple years off after birth of the first youngin. This thread will be where I post my thoughts, impressions, and pictures.

The world apparently decided, in those 2 years when I was elbow deep in diapers, that social media is where it is at so I even got a twitter account. I figured if a 70 year old man could best the whole of the American media establishment 140 Characters at a time it might be worth doing. I am now @BigJimFish47 and I may even post some stuff there from Shot Show in real time to make you feel like you are there. 140 Characters though? I think that even my 2 year old has a greater attention span than that. Sometimes I feel like the whole world is running in reverse. We moved on from cave paintings to symbolic language to poetry and prose. Now it seems like maybe we are going right back though the resolution is much higher this time. Damn, I feel old, and cranky. That is probably a good mood to be in going to Shot Show. People say I am more entertaining to read when I am cranky.

On that note, the trend for the crap I get sent prior to the show this year was press conferences. People really seem to think that what I want to do is come at a specific time, during the very limited show hours, and sit quietly and listen to them blow smoke up my ass for a while. Some folks are nice enough to try to bribe me with food, a proposition that might actually work, but most think that their company (both meanings) is incentive enough. Why don't you just record your spiel and send me the link before hand, when I have time and might actually watch it since I have a fast forward if you get to thin on information and thick on brown aromatics. Far from robust information most companies don't even tell you what it is they intend to announce but it is always earth shattering and would be a great travesty to miss. I read this as we have some new redundant product that is basically like what 5 other companies make but more special and you just wouldn't understand the special-ness enough to come to our session if we were to just give you some press handout PDF. Arg, I get that it is inconvenient for you to have press and buyers dropping by your booth at all kinds of totally uncoordinated times asking the same questions again and again. Well, that is basically what a trade show is and if you want to make it easier on yourself send me some actual freaking information before hand and not an invitation to the great press conference to reveal the super secret totally unspecific world changing product of the century. I blame apple for this. People get all lathered up to hear that they are not getting touch screens, convertible laptops, genuinely innovative products, or the reanimation of Steve Jobs and now everybody with nothing seems to think that if they just present it right that would be something.

Do you see all those characters, 140 limit, I am screwed. Anyhow, if you are interested in seeing what strikes my fancy or draws my ire it will be here. You could also tune into the twitter to laugh or cry as I twist my beloved English language into 140 characters of OMG, WTF.
 
Range day, yay, content, only 2 days late



A note to those displaying your long range shooting products on the 1k range at Shot Show industry day at the range. Have your rifle’s zeroed, preferably at 100yds, and have a dope worked out for them. Otherwise, you look rather silly, not very serious about precision rifle shooting, and I have to walk over and steal dope from a booth near you that has a similar set up. This is all doubly true if your rifle intends to fire itself so that there is really nothing I can do to help you. More on that later.



1%20view%20of%20range_zpsfmd77wdb.jpg








Steiner T5Xi 5-25x56 on Sako TRG in .308



So I started out my long range shooting on a Steiner T5Xi 5-25x56 sitting atop a Sako TRG switch caliber rifle that was being run in .308. These guys were ready and had some dope numbers for each rifle taped to a sheet on the bench. Bravo. That really left only the wind to deal with and the wind was rather challenging that day. It was coming into us at about 20 or 25 degrees to our left. Despite this, the horizontal component was as high as 7mph meaning the full magnitude was massive. It was also swirling pretty good and quite variable. The longest target set is at 960yds and consists of a 1meter round plate, a roughly half meter by meter white rectangle, and a much smaller, I think half scale, silhouette. At this first station I kept it simple, dialed the dope, saw the splash, adjusted my windage to match, and started hitting them. No problems except my fingers freezing and trying not to shiver the rifle right off target despite the fact I was wearing a full winter ski coat and two shirts. I thought I had overdressed. I guess I misread the wind. Despite all that I was pretty satisfied. I had been wanting to get my mits on a T5Xi which at around $1.5k - $1.7k has become quite popular as many consider it a second tier optic at a 3rd tier price. A very good value on an optic that is good enough to give you a little puff of pride in addition the function. I may pick one up for a review as it looks a very compelling offering.



2%20steiner_zpsdxazbvov.jpg






Minox 5-25x56 on Blaser 6.5CM



I next messed with a Minox 5-25x56 atop a blaser 6.5 CM rifle. Blaser is now the importer for Minox scopes. I have since been told this rifle is pronounced Blaaazoure and not blazer. Odd rifle. They wanted to add a magazine but didn’t have any room in front of the trigger so they just made the trigger part of the magazine. Don’t ask me what that makes the magazine cost. I guess if you can afford a blaser you don’t care. I am not sure why you would chose budget federal American eagle ammo with this rig but if you do you will actually get 10.4 mils of drop at that 960 yard target. That is a little more than the long barreled Sako TRG was getting in .308 which much better ammo (Hornady or FGMM don’t remember which.) You will also get some comical fliers, which we did, but a 1meter target is big so we got there most of the time. In any case, the scope performed fine during the demo but, at around $3k, the market is small and the competition is very stiff. There are a lot of $3k scopes that are about that size, weight, have those features, and perform well. It is very crowded and, to be honest, many of them start to blend together.



3%20minox_zpsmnzjspca.jpg










Leupold Mk 6 3-18x44mm on Ashbury precision 6.5CM



Maybe wanting to feel a little at home I picked up a Leupold Mk 6 3-18x next. This is what I currently have though mine is atop a less than flashy, though particularly tight grouping, .308 Remington 5R. This one was atop an Ashbury precision build using their chassis and a proof barrel in 6.5CM. Pretty shiny stuff. The scope worked just like I remember, well especially if you have to carry it all day as it is light as a feather, and the rifle was very nice. Ashbury is now teaming up with savage so that savage is going to offer one of their chassis systems stock on a savage rifle. I am not sure if that will make the Savage shoot straight as I don’t really have that much love for their factory rifles but I do like their barrel attachment mechanism which, Ashbury uses in general for their custom actions and rifles. These seem quite nice and they struck me as very knowledgeable.







S&B PSR commemorative and Ultra short 3-20x50mm on PGW .338LM and .308



S&B’s reps were also very knowledgeable and, despite the fact that almost all their stuff was stuck in a storm in Nebraska, they managed to scare up a couple of scopes, (I think they unboxed a PSR special edition for this) get them mounted, zeroed, and work up a dope. I shot both that and the Ultra short 3-20x50. I believe both were atop PGW rifles. I had never heard of this Canadian company but the rifles appeared quite nice. On the scopes, it was the 3-20 that stole the day for me and this was despite the fact that that PSR was the only scope that I could make out the splash of the lead on the 960 meter target with. To be fair, it was riding a .338 LM and not the .308 many other scopes had. However, I could tell you just exactly where on the bullet riddled target that it hit so I was impressed nevertheless. The 3-20 really just got lucky. It looked good, not like the 5-20 ultra short that I chastised at Shot a few years back. It was also comfortable to be behind, but it stole my heart because that little .308 round sailed all those 960 yds and dropped right on that tiny half sized silhouette the first shot at it. 10.5mil drop, 3 mil wind, plink, win. It is not really fair. S&B just got the lucky consistent 5 min in the wind all day. They could have been like Kahles and I could have chassed that wind around with a .338LM the whole time while getting the crap kicked out of my shoulder by a .338LM that actually felt like one but they weren’t. They, and I, were lucky then and so I got all the warm fuzzies.



4%20s%20and%20b_zpsmphe24e8.jpg










On the less than lucky side was Kahles. I chassed rounds around the midsized plate with their K624i atop an HS precision .338LM for the whole magazine and only caught one. Was the wind 1 mil left to right, .5mils, nada, .5 right to left or 1 right to left? Well it wasn’t what the last shot was that was for sure and it wasn’t even in that nice linear order. No windage flags so who can really say. Not me, proof is in the dirt clouds I made.







Tracking Point



That brings us to Tracking Point again doesn’t it. I know, I kicked them around once before and I was ready for them to impress me. Opti-Electronics is the future. We all know it. The thing is, I fired probably 20 rounds, the rep did at least 10, and nobody hit shit. I shouldn’t say that. Really, the rifle fired 30 rounds with a couple of different meatbags behind it and powerless to help it as it fired itself into the dirt near, but never on, the target. The shots were consistent in that they all missed about the same amount high. This was actually true on both the .308 and .300 blackout I tried. In addition to the elevation issue, the windage numbers also looked crazy. I think perhaps the thing was just zeroed wrong but the rep didn’t seem to be able to fix it in this that or the other menu. I have now tried this thing out at 2 shows and I have still never been all that convinced I hit anything as the FOV on the first iteration was too small for me to see the hit they told me I got and this one just never had a hit. For what it is worth, the optics are better resolution than they were, the FOV is larger, and it is lighter. I see that opti-electronics is the logical way for things to go but I am never going to be comfortable with a scope that actually activates the firing mechanism in place of the shooter. Not knowing exactly when the shot will come makes the mechanics of shooting very hard to do right. All of the tensions, relaxations, and breathing have a rhythm for consistency. It is not just about where the gun is pointed when the trigger breaks. When a shot is fired, everything moves before the bullet leaves the barrel. The body must dissipate this consistently for accuracy and you can’t do that when you don’t know the timing.

5%20tracking%20point_zps4vrqor7i.jpg








I’ll leave you with some random other observations from my goof off time at range day:



- I love race guns and the STI was slicker than grease. Even I feel like I don't suck at handguns with this.



- You really loose a great deal of the fun of a SAW without the fun switch and what is left feels more like a piece of machinery than a rifle.



- I will never understand why half the media waits in long lines fire a Glock pistol at range day like you can’t do that any time at any range in America with no line. What do you think your going to learn, experience, or write about? It is going to go bang when you pull the trigger just like every other time. Do something remotely interesting people. Or don’t, better you all line up over there so I don’t have to wait everywhere else.

6%20race%20pistol_zpsjojjpbet.jpg


8%20not%20the%20same%20in%20semi_zpsdd2rlznt.jpg



 
Laser rangefinders and ballistic calculation



It doesn't seem like that long ago when a normal setup might include field glass, a mil reticle scope, some sort of calculation device such as a mil-dot master or pocket calculator, and a dope card. The procedure for finding, ranging, and hitting a target was rather long and went something like this: find the target with the field glass, mil it with the scope, calculate the distance with the calculation device, estimate the wind, look up the dope on the card, dial it into the scope, and then fire. Wow, 7 steps with 4 distinct pieces of equipment and without any compensation for a variety of lesser factors such as pressure or temperature. This procedure all varied depending on the situation. On a known distance range with targets, we may have overlooked the cumbersomeness. However, when hunting on unfamiliar land shooting groundhogs, it all came flooding back.



Enter the era of opti-electronics. Optics are not particularly new. We will put their birth at the Galilean telescope of 1609 and they have steadily improved since. Electronics you could date to the transistor of 1947 or the microprocessor of 1972. Either way, they are new and have improved at a pace something faster than steady. As such, the marriage of these two is something less than natural. My field glass, for instance, is a pair of Nikon Venturer 8x32's from about 15 years ago. These were what Nikon would later call their Premier line, a line that has since been discontinued. Nevertheless, they are still really, really good and you will still spend $1k if you want to beat them. Would you like to use a laser rangefinder from 15 years ago? I expect such a beast would probably have been heavy, astronomically priced, pretty short range, and may even have been a military only toy. I don't remember laser rangefinders from 15 years ago. Here we are though with the technology to produce $499 rangefinders that do 2,200 yards, have exceptional accuracy, and weigh practically nothing. We can put this technology in scopes, binoculars, or standalone devices and we can also integrate any calculation and memory functions we want, as well as wirelessly connect any of this to anything else or to a smart phone. This leaves us with some questions: what do we want the total of our kit to look like, and what are we willing to pay?



Ranging built into the field glass



My initial thought on this was that the start of the process is usually field glass and wouldn't it be nice to integrate all the opti-electronics into that. Leica did that about three years ago and has updated it this year with the Geovid HD-B edition 8x42's. These range to 2,200 yards (though only provide ballistic data to 1,200); include temperature, pressure, and angle sensors; and fully integrate your custom ballistic information. Leica also improved the ballistic formulas for this edition and assure me they are good. That range limitation of 1,200 for ballistic data output was confusing to me so I asked for more details. Apparently, this is a German export regulation and basically software limits the device such that if the range measures over 1,200 the unit is restricted to only output the dumb line of sight range. No angle compensated range or ballistic solution will be output to the user at all. Provided you are within that 1,200 yard range, the binos can be set to output your dope in mils or moa, in inches holdover, or in angle compensated range. For archers, the binos automatically switch to archery mode from 10-100yards and give the angle compensated range. The Leica binos are $3k. For those interested, Swarovski also updated their rangefinding binos but they don't range as far and, importantly, refuse to upload your ballistic data, so I feel they are a bit behind and basically choose not to be relevant because, European reasons. Bushnell also offers a notable solution at a street value of about $800 and which goes to ~1,760 yard, a precursor of which I reviewed awhile back. For whatever reason, they still have generic BDC information with "profiles" instead of upload of custom BDC info. Rangefinding binos with ballistic information looks like an elegant solution for the well-heeled. Of course if your field glass integrates rangefinding, you may not be using it 15 years on like I am using mine. The electronic component will be much improved and the optics very little.



leica%20range%20binos_zpsntmjuumb.jpg

Leica 8x42 Geovid HD-B Edition 2200 binos





Ranging built into the scope



Of course, another obvious place to put your rangefinder and ballistic calculator is in, or on, the scope itself. This solution has the downside that it ties all your rangefinding and calculating to one rifle, or at least one scope, but has the added upside that it can adjust your point of aim automatically by turning your turrets for you, moving a digital reticle, or lighting up portions of the reticle. The tracking point system is the most fully integrated of these systems. In fact, it is so integrated that it actually fires the rifle instead of you. Having demo'ed a few versions of this and not actually being convinced I hit any targets, however, I am not sure it works. Given that the tracking point booth went from one of the largest and most ornate at Shot Show to one person sitting with one rifle at the edge of the Shilen booth, I don't think the market is either. Or maybe the market just doesn't like the ~$16k price for the integrated system.



For years Burris has worked on the Eliminator series of scopes. Though designed for the hunting consumer, these have become more sophisticated with each generation, now accept custom ballistic profiles, are capable of reaching 1,200 yards with some cartridges, and now may well appeal to some long range shooters. They seem well-liked and I am rather curious as to their performance in the field. Unlike the tracking point system, the Eliminator is not a totally opti-electronic system where you are viewing your target on a screen, but rather a conventional optical system with light up aiming points and a small LCD in the field of view displaying information. It is also only about $1,500, making it cost less than the long range optics many of us use. I expect for the Eliminator to continue to improve with each generation and would not be surprised to see it begin to appeal to more and more shooters well outside of its initially intended market. In a similar vein to the Eliminator Series, Steiner also has a rather oddball laser rangefinding optic that uses light up points displayed in a conventional optics design. Their ICS (Innovative Combat Sight), at $4k per unit, appears to have been intended for deep-pocketed militaries and might work especially well for those whose basic marksmanship training have mostly been phased out as, presumably, said training interfered with various social program aspects of the institution or resulted in too great an environmental hazard from all that lead. The ICS is a fixed 6x scope that is pre-programmed for various NATO cartridges, ranges out to 800 meters, and otherwise seems rather similar to the Burris Eliminator series except, of course, in price. As Burris and Steiner are one company, it no doubt takes advantage of the years of research and development that have gone into the Eliminator.



Also in the model of integrating opti-electronic information on the rifle scope is the Vampire device from Infrared Research and Development. This device straps to a rifle scope and couples a laser rangefinder out to 1,650 yards with an onboard ballistic computer and tilt, cant, elevation, pressure, temperature, and humidity sensors. It can also link to a Kestrel or to its own remote sensors. They had one of these at range day, but, unfortunately, it was not mounted to a rifle. It also looks very, very expensive as the website appears directed to military customers, has no price list, and I did not find it sold elsewhere. Nevertheless, it was an interesting piece of equipment even if only as a proof of concept to most shooters.



IRD%20Vampire_zpsrlp9xvrt.jpg

IRD Vampire device



From the other direction, Chris Thomas (who you may remember from Premier Reticles) is now with Revic optics and they have a new scope called the PMR. This acronym does not stand for anything and is therefore industry leading as far as acronyms go, as I suspect all acronyms are clearly all destined to sound cool and stand for nothing. The PMR scope is based on a Light Optics 4.5-28x56 optical platform but has integrated just about everything related to range compensation except the laser rangefinder. It has a ballistic calculator, to which you upload your custom data from your smart phone, as well as integrating an altimeter, pressure sensor, temp sensor, compass, incline sensor, and input for latitude. Basically, what the scope does is tell you how many yards your turret is set to based on this data. You just match that to a rangefinding reading from the dumbest of rangefinders. Your rangefinder says 1,200 yards. Point the scope at the target and turn the dial until the scope says 1,200 yards. The idea seems to be that the rangefinder is the most rapidly changing technology in the equation as far as obsolescence, so bake everything into the scope except that. Prices are not yet set on the PMR scope.



Revic%20PMR%204.5-28x56%20total_zpseucsjugx.jpg

Revic PMR through the reticle



Standalone rangefinder



Despite all of this integration though, I expect by far the most prevalent rangefinding tool is a standalone unit. These can be dumb, wherein they read only range, or they can be varying degrees of smart: from giving an angle compensated range, to having some sensors and generic trajectory profiles, to linking to a kestrel, all the way to integrating onboard atmospheric sensors with a ballistic calculator and offering a fully customizable firing solution.



There are a lot of products and I am not going to pretend that I know them all or even remotely care to. I will just cover a few that stood out to me. We will start with the smartest of the smart, the SIG KILO2400ABS. The interesting thing about this unit is that it incorporates Applied Ballistics software and hardware directly into the unit. In fact, the unit is actually compatible with the mil/LEO only version of the applied ballistics software application that is used with the shiny crazy expensive stuff Uncle Sam has. Presumably, the civilian app that you will get with the same unit will be a little more limited. Basically, the LRF part of the KILO2400ABS appears to be essentially a KILO2200 but it has onboard atmospheric sensors and a plug-in wind sensor which all feed into an onboard ballistic solver. In their opinion, those differences add up to a price change from $500 to $1,800, which I read as Applied Ballistics is getting at least $1,100 for their software and sensor chip on what is at most a $700 product without it. It seems to me there may be some military acquisitions thinking at play here which may need some adjustment to the world where the people doing the buying are also doing the paying. It may not seem right or just, but the competitive marketplace generally puts a fairly low value on knowledge or software type components of a product and atmospheric sensing hardware is pretty common and inexpensive. As I was learning about the KILO2400ABS after hearing about the KILO2200, I was expecting a $100 price difference. I actually laughed out loud when he gave me the price. I believe he also expected this as he had started by showing me the KILO2200 unit and did not actually seem to want to talk about the flagship KILO2400ABS. This indicated to me that he expected the 2200 to have the most market interest and was a little embarrassed about the other. The way I figure it, you take a $499 laser rangefinder with an incline sensor and then add a $150 kestrel 2500 for the additional atmospheric measurements, a $30 applied ballistics smart phone app for the software, a $10 TI calculator for the computing, and you subtract about $90 for the cost savings of a combined electronic device instead of four discrete ones and that lands you at about $599, not $1,800. My off the cuff estimation at the beginning therefore tracked pretty close to what should be expected, even though I had not actually looked up all the products needed to get the functionality at that time. Perhaps I am unfair and you should add some more cost for the flagship tax you generally pay in products to buy the single best in a company's line, but that added cost is not $1,200. I expect all this annoyance comes down to the same company, Applied Ballistics, offering similar products in the civilian and military markets and needing to maintain the military price structure even at the cost of competitiveness in the civilian market. Most companies, once they are secure in the military market, simply free themselves of this necessity by eliminating all civilian market presence (think Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, and Lockheed Martin). Those that do not (think Boeing) may have to answer for why they are trying to charge $4 billion to the government for what is essentially $714 million worth of aircraft on the civilian market. Digressions aside, I think the Sig KILO2400ABS is probably the most interesting standalone rangefinder, but that it is also a terrible value: though it's simpler sibling the KILO2200 looks like a very good rangefinder for the cost. I also expect that Applied Ballistics may have some decision making to do in the near future as many companies are very close to offering there own proprietary solutions with similar capabilities to the KILO2400ABS and those solutions will likely land in the $600-$800 range. I'm not going to pretend those solutions will have ballistic data as good as the stuff applied ballistics puts out. Brian is the clear market leader in this segment with about every trophy I can think of to prove it. Nevertheless, I expect the competing products to be good enough and much cheaper.



sig%20kilo%20rangefinders_zpslp4rb3nn.jpg

Sig KILO2200 and KILO2400ABS units



One step further down the list of integration is the Leica CRF 2000-B. This is not the full custom ballistic data of the Geovid HD-B edition 8x42's binos (though it should be), but it does have the integrated sensor suite as well as a slightly less robust ballistic calculator that instead relies on a generic set of "representative" ballistic profiles of which you chose the closest to what you have. I am not really sure, in practice, how far this will get you compared to, say, having a fully custom ballistic solution in the form of a printed dope card with that card being a little off by assuming a temperature and pressure that are not representative of the day's conditions. I suspect you are probably better off with the custom data that is a little off of the day's conditions. I have little use for standard "representative" ballistic curves. Of course, you could just use the $800 CRF 2000-B as an angle compensated rangefinder (and Leica has a good reputation for these) with a set of instruments and one of the wide variety of smart phone apps available to get to a real custom firing solution. It will only give you the angle compensated range out to $1,200 but I do expect that it will range as well, or better, than anything else out to that range. Leica has that reputation.



Summary and current thoughts on the state of rangefinding and firing solutions


For the long range shooter, it is overwhelmingly likely that you are either currently or will soon be using laser rangefinding as your primary distance measurement method. They go a long way now, are fast, affordable (at least by long range shooting standards), and very accurate. Similarly, it is also quite likely that your firing solution for that first shot is now a fully custom one that integrates range, temperature, pressure, angle of incline, and maybe even coriolis. Sadly, all this probably is not integrated into a single, cost conscious, device, or even two devices, but rather is probably the output of a smart phone app coupled with inputs from an angle compensated rangefinder, Kestrel, and the smart phone itself. It is not ideal, but it is much cheaper to do it that way. I still tend to lean, in my boundless avarice, towards full sensor and application integration with field glass and the Leica binos look an excellent unit for the well-heeled, but I do find some of the other options compelling. Certainly, an angle compensating rangefinder with temperature and pressure sensor(s) and a smart phone app together are a cost conscious solution that is somewhat future proofed in that the most rapidly advancing component, the rangefinder, is not tied to the slowest in the field glass or rifle scope. I cannot say that I am currently fully satisfied with any of the offerings, but I am far closer to being satisfied than before and I am becoming very enamored with a laser rangefinder as the primary ranging method. It is only this year that it seems to have become common for rangefinders to be offered that will stretch to a thousand yards and even a little further on targets that are not perfectly reflected, and that is a huge factor in and of itself.
Update on Sig KILO2400ABS

I have learned some more about the pricing on this unit from a variety of sources. In light of Brian's price expectation in his book, I do not think that the $1,200 price increase for the KILO2400ABS over the KILO2200 is mostly due to the AB license fee. I have also learned that the 2400 has a different laser diode and collimating lens that the 2200 in addition to the bluetooth module, environmental sensors, calculator, software, and extras including an LRI the tripod adapter. There is also some additional QC performed. QC as well as design, assembly, programming, calibration, and range testing is all done by hand at the Portland facility. My immediate thought on this was that maybe I would like a Kilo2200ABS for ~$700-800 instead of a Kilo2400ABS for ~$1,500-$1,800. I really would like a laser rangefinder that completely eliminated the separate Kestrel and smartphone app from the equation but I am less keen on the high cost for a very little additional range and some extras. Of course, it may be more than a little extra range in practice as the range ratings on rangefinders are notoriously nebulous. Leica's for instance, are well known for ranging further on average relative to their claimed range than most brands. In any case, the KILO2400 ABS is the cheapest and best featured full ballistic suite laser rangefinder on the market even if I still don't like the price.
 
Affordable long range glass, 2017 is your year.

Remember 2013? That could have been summarized as the year of the expensive scope. You got the S&B 3-27x @ $6k, the Hensoldt 3.5-26x @ $6+k, the Tracking Point system @ $20k, and the Trijicon CCAS @ $don't ask and we wont tell you anyway. You would have thought that incomes around America, and the world, must have been skyrocketing. Just a few short years before that, a S&B PMII 5-25x was listed at over $2k and in 2013 the same scope was close to $4k. I was beginning to think that I must just have missed the boarding for the gravy train.

Well, it seems a lot of other people must not have heard the ‘all aboard’ either. Tracking Point now appears to be one lady sitting in the Shilen Barrels booth, I didn't manage to find the CCAS at the Trijicon booth this year, nobody (figuratively) was at the Zeiss / Hensoldt booth, S&B is simplifying their line and lowering costs, and Swarovski even lost the fountain they used to have in front of their booth. I don't mean to say there was a somber mood, far from it, just that the focus seemed to shift to more cost conscious products. The first thing S&B told me about was not the new knob they have devised, or the 1-8x ffp daytime bright scope that we have been waiting five years for, but rather, that they have slimmed down and restructured their product line and are decreasing costs. So, in light of this clear theme, we will talk today about lower cost long range scope options.

I think it is best to credit Burris with starting this trend. In 2014 they came out with the first generation of XTRII's. These were $1.1k and, I think, Philippines made Light Optics platforms. They were optically lacking, but, not only did mine track, it seems all the other reviewers’ samples did as well. These had all the features you know and need in a long range scope for a grand. While a bit rough around the edges, they were clearly the start of something. Burris (Steiner is the same company) has followed this up with the Steiner T5Xi, a U.S. made scope at about $1.5k that has probably generated more interest than any other scope in the last five years. Does it track or not? How good is the glass? The scope seems to have had something of a rough start. Steiner says they had some issues with tracking in early production that have been worked out. I, for one, am very interested. You don't typically get an up-to-date optical design with the features you want in a U.S. made scope for anywhere near that price. I is something of a category breaker.

Here is where it is probably best to talk about Light Optics. My educated guess is that Light Optics now produces substantially more than 50% of all scopes in the U.S. between $800 and $3,000. I can, off the top of my head, name 14 brands that I think sell L.O. products somewhere in their product line (or everywhere in their product line). I also remember quite a few more booths showcasing L.O. products, but I didn't see any interesting implementations and so kept moving. Some of these makers will tell you exactly who they use, others will be very quiet when asked and you have to ask others or piece it together yourself. Light Optics tries to hide but when you make more than half the products offered, it is like trying to hide a haystack with needles. In no particular order, the brands I remember that use L.O. are: Sig, Vortex, Nightforce, Trijicon, EOTech, Bushnell, Athlon, Burris, Primary Arms, SWFA SS, Norden Performance, Revic, and GPO. From what I can piece together, Light Optics seem to have basically three tiers of scopes that they offer OEM for American and European brands. First is a Philippines made line, the optics of which have never impressed me in the past. These appear to be used in the Burris XTR II's and Vortex Viper PST's as well as many others. I expect this line is probably improving rapidly as Light Optics is bringing in money hand over fist. Certainly, the perfect tracking Burris XTR II's have shown is a good sign. Hopefully the optics will be what I consider good at some point, maybe they are now, but in the past I have been disappointed. I am a little curious about this year’s Viper PST II Vortex update. They are rather expensive for a Philippines optic. Hopefully, they represent an improvement in the general quality coming out of the Light Optics Philippines facility. Light Optics also seems to have two Japanese lines. One of these can be had for around $1,500 and the other for more like $2,500. The highest end line is used in the Vortex Razor HD II's and new Sig stuff, as well as many others. I have tested one of these in the form of the Razor HDII 4.5-27x56 and it was very good though hella heavy. Many of the European brands seem to be kidding themselves into thinking they are way ahead. They do not appear to be to me. The Light Optics high-end optics are as good as, better even, than some European and American models, though the weight is far greater. Everything Light Optics makes is comparatively heavy. The lower end Japanese made line appears to be in some Bushnell DMR stuff but is generally less commonly found. I believe the Razor HD and Norden Performance/ GRSC CRS that I tested in the past were also of this line. This line has earned a reputation for reliability while also being pretty good optically. Frankly, the scopes in this middle line may be the best value Light Optics offers, as they don't seem to cost much more than the Philippines stuff but they do perform significantly better. Companies selling Light Optics OEM'd scopes differ greatly in how much design work they do to change the base platform: Sig, Vortex, and Nightforce, for example, make substantial changes, but the core optical platform is the same between many brands. You cannot understand mid-priced optics without understanding Light Optics, as many of the scope brands you look at amount to choosing a feature set and warranty package to go with the same Light Optics design that is in every option you are considering.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i363.photobucket.com\/albums\/oo73\/BigJimFish\/vortex%20viper%20pstII%203-15x44_zps263petap.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Vortex Viper PST gen II 3-15x44mm

On that note, this year, the options in this $500 to $1,500 range just exploded. Bushnell has some new DMRII's at around $1,500. These appear to be of the mid-priced Japanese Light Optics variety. Since many companies price the Philippines Light Optics products in at this price point, the DMRII’s appear to be a value. The DMR II's are 10mil/turn, ffp, have ZS, and locking windage: very full-featured. Similarly, Primary Arms and SWFA offer L.O. Japanese product at near this cost. Basically, at about $1,500 you have a number of choices between full featured ffp, 10mil, ZS products with good reticles that basically boil down to the Steiner T5Xi and a variety of Light Optics produced products.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i363.photobucket.com\/albums\/oo73\/BigJimFish\/steiner%20t5xi%205-25%20resize_zpsisd1wiam.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Steiner T5Xi 5-25x56mm showing the windowed turrets

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i363.photobucket.com\/albums\/oo73\/BigJimFish\/Bushnell%20mid%20priced%20LO%20stuff_zpsnbk5prk4.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Bushnell Mid priced L.O. Stuff

One step lower than this, around $1,000 or less, you actually get a little more variety. Athlon now has a Chinese made Ares FFP line with full 10mil/turn and ZS for about $850 for the 4.5-27x. At the same price, Leatherwood has the 5-30x56 Phenom scope with 12mil/rev but no ZS. I had a long talk with the Sightron guys. Though I did not care for any of their new products at all, we did discuss the possibility of a 5 mil/rev, 2fp, mil/mil scope at $500. That would be a solid scope at $500. A little further out, will be some new Optisan ffp and 2fp scopes with reticles I will design. These will be strong scopes in the low cost range and will have 5 mil/turn knobs. Optisan's optics have proven remarkable for the price, so I am excited about these.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i363.photobucket.com\/albums\/oo73\/BigJimFish\/Leatherwood%20phenom%205-30x56%20ffp_zpsl8vpn3rp.jpg"}[/IMG2]
Leatherwood Phenom 5-30x56mm

The overall message from SHOT this year is a simple one: you don't have to pay $2,500 for the features you need for long range shooting. This core feature set, 10mil/turn, ZS, and mil/mil, has moved down the price structure as far as $800. There are now some very compelling products at low and mid-range prices to tempt shooters to simply spend less of their shooting or household budget on glass. This seems to have been noticed even by very high cost scope makers as price drops across the board are the current trend.

I think next up I may do a little summary about what was happening at each optics booth. I may put a little more inside baseball stuff in that. That may be of interest as a lot of moves are being made. Also, I was about halfway through that caliber change rifle article and have encountered a research bunny trail to run down regarding the Sig Sauer products based on the TR200 action, so that one may be awhile now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TireMan