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Gunsmithing Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Great write up, appreciate the information. Struggling with my first barrel (MMi) and believe the second will be easier.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Great post thanks.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

i got the same results, after 800 rds i remeasured the throat of my 243 AI and it only moved .004', very happy with the treatment, from now on all my barrels will get it.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Has anyone had an action or barrel done in the tan melonite pictured in Ring's linked article?
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Ohiofarmer, I think your on to something. Someone tell me if I am thinking right. The tan looks cool, but being softer, wont do as good as job preventing barrel erosion as black correct?
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

After reading a thread some time ago regarding the desirability of having a difference of at least 5 or 7 points of hardness on the HRC scale, between bolt and action, it got me thinking of doing the action body in tan (if it does exist - Ring's article with the one handgun slide pictured is all I have been able to turn-up) and the bolt and barrel in black.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

I've herd once you have the barrel nitraded you can not cut the barrel shorter and crown it is this true. If this is true you would not be able to shorten up a long barrel once you shoot it out. What good would that be thin to have it done.Was thinking about having it done till hearing this.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rottenron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've herd once you have the barrel nitraded you can not cut the barrel shorter and crown it is this true. If this is true you would not be able to shorten up a long barrel once you shoot it out. What good would that be thin to have it done.Was thinking about having it done till hearing this.</div></div>

this is not true, I have cut down and rethreaded a nitrided barrel and no il effects what so ever

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...901#Post2935901
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Thanks Adam B I will be sending mine in to have it done then
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Interesting vid, thanks for posting the link.

I'll be getting my barrel and bolt back from H&M on Monday.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Any idea how deep this stuff penetrates, do you get higher velocities, better accuracy, is the bore easier to clean, how many more shots can you take before cleaning barrel.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

I was told to shoot the gun about 10-15 times before having it nitided so the bullets help to slicken the barrel, otherwise once it`s nitrided, the machine marks, especially in the throat area is going to foul more.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was told to shoot the gun about 10-15 times before having it nitided so the bullets help to slicken the barrel, otherwise once it`s nitrided, the machine marks, especially in the throat area is going to foul more.</div></div>

u want the barrel "broke in"... as for why it can do for you... read my review here
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

I sent them a bolt from a Polytech M-14 a month ago, still have not received it. I was told three different times that it was mailed back to me.Each time they told me a different date when it was mailed. I guess i am not getting my bolt back.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Anyone know about accuracy before and after? I wanna do this, but I have to know that my rifle will maintain accuracy.
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone know about accuracy before and after? I wanna do this, but I have to know that my rifle will maintain accuracy. </div></div>

I know this doesn't make two shit's, but my 308 didn't lose accuracy after I had the barrel Melonited. YMMV....

IMAG0036.jpg
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Sorry if this is common knowledge, but is there any reason this couldn't be applied to an action and bolt?
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ohiofarmer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone had an action or barrel done in the tan melonite pictured in Ring's linked article? </div></div>
I was about to ask the same. I have heard of tan ionbond, but never tan melonite. I am very interested
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

Does anyone know if you can Cerakote over this?

John
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toolmaker64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I sent them a bolt from a Polytech M-14 a month ago, still have not received it. I was told three different times that it was mailed back to me.Each time they told me a different date when it was mailed. I guess i am not getting my bolt back.</div></div>

who.. H&M?
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkmckinley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry if this is common knowledge, but is there any reason this couldn't be applied to an action and bolt?</div></div>

they were doing BAT actions and bolts when i was at H&M... i also have 3 savage actions, bolts done and 5 AR15 bolt carriers..
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

just a BIG reminder.... MAKE SURE YOU CLEAN OUT ALL OF THE NITRIDING FROM THE BARREL!!!!!!

i took a 260 bbl for a buddy, told him how to clean it and told him to fallow my instructions to a T...

he says he did... we go out and he is running the same load i use, he is blowing 50% of the primers...

i ask if he is sure he cleaned it good... he says yes....

i take it home and run a tight wet patch down it... real slow... i can feel the 1st 4" of the bbl by the chamber as rough...

so i re-scrub with a tight brush and use the JB bore compound untill i feel it smooth out...

take back to his house and he puts 20 shots threw it and all is fine, no psi signs....

but now he has to order a new ejector since it was so hot before it broke the ejector pin...
 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

did my MK2

had it done by www.blacknitride.com H&M

got sick of the back strap rusting all the time...

its was a pain i the ass to fully take appart and put back, the mainspring took some MAJOR effort and jury rigged compressor and still took close to 30min to put back together,,,

 
Re: Black nitrade / melonite review of the guns i have

how about this?...
after 11,000 documented rounds.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3795644.0

some posts from there...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some have been wondering about the usefulness of barrel nitriding (meloniting, QPQ, salt bath nitriding). I can report some results based upon my barrel.

I shoot Across the Course competitively. The barrel on my spacegun is a cut rifle barrel, in 223, 26" long, with a 7.7 twist. The barrel has been shooting well since it was put on the rifle, and is still shooting well today after 11,000 documented rounds.

I wanted to see the condition of the bore, since most competitive barrels are long gone after this many rounds. A bench rest shooter friend has a bore scope, so we decided to take a look. I brought along a new barrel from the same manufacturer, chambered the same way as a comparison. What we found was astonishing (to us).

The 11,000 round barrel showed some wear and very minor pitting in the first half of the lead in area. In the new barrel, there was a small step where the rifling started for the lead in. That step was worn smooth in the 11,000 round barrel. After that, there was no visible signs of wear, pitting, firing cracking, or any other signs of defects. After the lead in, the rifling was sharp all the way to the muzzle which appeared in perfect condition compared to the new barrel. Unfortunately, I didn't measure how the seating depth has changed since new.

Most of the loads used were mild, with 55gr bullets. The rifle has also had many rounds of max loads 90gr bullets at 2800fps.

We looked at another non-nitrided 17Rem barrel after 7,000 full power rounds. This barrel had stopped shooting, meaning the bullets were hitting sideways. This barrel had no rifling for the first 1"-2", was severely firecracked for the first half of its length and had chunks of torn metal away. It was clear why this barrel wouldn't shoot.

This is merely one data point. My results are not scientific. I didn't have a control barrel, and didn't measure the throat as time progressed. I used mild loads with relatively light bullets which may have contributed significantly to the good barrel life.

Barrel nitriding has been available to shooters for the past several years, but I haven't seen much data on long term results. Perhaps others can share their experiences so we can determine if this process has merits for the shooting community. My results thus far are positive.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will second that. I have only a 5,000 round PPC barrel to talk about. I have others and am still shooting them.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great to know 1st hand documented info on nitrated bbls. A pal had 3 new bbls nitrated for his Rugers.

I documented 40K+ rounds in a .223 bbl. before it gave up the ghost using a moly coated 50g vmax @ 3300 fps since day one and all I got was jumped on for being a liar when I posted my personal experiance with moly.

I looking to have 2 bbls nitrated for my varmint rigs and that helps what you posted.</div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was the Armorer for the Army Reserve Shooting Team for over a decade so I do have quite a bit of experience with both processes.

As I am sure you know, most G.I. barrels are made from chrome molly steel which is more susceptible to corrosion than stainless steel. Chrome lining is used on G.I. bores both to extend their shooting life and to protect them from corrosion that can be a problem in battlefield conditions where maintenance is sometimes sporadic or insufficient. Chrome lining does a pretty good job of protecting battlefield weapons. One of the objections to chrome lining is that it is thought to decrease accuracy. This seems to be a valid criticism and is backed up by machine rest tests I have conducted of identical barrels (same manufacturer but half chrome lined and half not).

As you are aware most barrel "wear" is in the throat area. So eventually the hot gasses from the burning of the gunpowder will eat thru the chrome lining at the throat. It is rumored that at this point accuracy will plummet but I have not found that to be true. (Or if true, it is overstated or maybe only occurs for that short period when there is both chrome and bare steel in the throat simultaneously - just at the point of initial break thru.) Chrome lined barrels can continue to shoot well for thousands of rounds after the bare barrel steel at the back of the barrel (throat) has been exposed due to erosion of the chrome lining. Another criticism of chrome lining is that it can flake off later in the life of the barrel resulting in poor accuracy. Obviously, this could also cause maintenance problems if the user is depending on the chrome to ward off corrosion and thus is careless in his bore cleaning. If corrosion is allowed to occur pitting will result and that will ruin accuracy for sure.

Barrel pitting was one of the reasons I got involved in Salt Bath Nitriding. I was loosing nearly as many expensive match grade barrels to improper maintenance (causing pitting) as I was to wear out. This was under the relatively benign target shooting conditions. Obviously given the reputation of degraded accuracy, using chrome lining wasn't an option. So for the past couple of years I have been Salt Bath Nitriding all of my match barrels and haven't had a single one exhibit any pitting. During that 2 yr. period shooters have put anywhere from a few hundred rounds to thousands of rounds on said barrels. I don't know how long the coating will persist so at this point I am still evaluating it as a preservative. I don't know what will happen in another year or two when these barrels get more wear on them. Salt Bath Nitriding goes on both inside of the bore and on the outside surface. So, instead of 2 manufacturing steps you have combined them into one. Salt Bath Nitriding doesn't degrade accuracy one iota, unlike chrome lining. This was the first thing that I verified when I began using the process. I broke in a bunch of barrels and then machine rest tested them for group. I recorded and kept the targets, cleaned up the barrels, and sent them to MMi TruTec for the Isonite process. When they came back I reassembled them on the same receivers with the same torque settings, same bolt carrier assemblies, same flash suppressors, etc. Then they were retested with the same ammo lots. NO degradation in accuracy and about a 1% increase in muzzle velocity.

Chrome lined barrels seem to clean up rather easily after a range session. I found the ease of cleaning of Isonite coated barrels to be similar to chrome lined barrels. The Isonite barrels clean up the easiest of any non chrome lined barrels I have ever used. Isonite can be applied to either stainless or chrome molly but the factory needs to know what steel you are sending them because the application process varies a bit. Again, I only have about 2 yr. of cleaning experience with Salt Bath Nitrided barrels. I don't know if the ease of cleaning will continue as the barrels get more rounds on them. Generally speaking, most non coated barrels get harder to clean later in life. Although stainless has a reputation of being corrosion resistant it isn't corrosion proof (I have had plenty of them return pitted) so I coat both my C.M. and my SS barrels. The Isonite on the outside of the stainless barrels cuts reflection down so my shooters like it.

I mentioned flaking of chrome lining inside the bore. Joel Kendrick is my contact at MMi TruTec, the company in Arkansas that does my Salt Bath Nitriding (they call it Isonite). He was mentioning using the Salt Bath Nitriding inside the bore prior to chrome lining it to get a better adhesion. He is currently working with one of the military contractors (maybe F.N., but don't quote me on that) relative to this process. He has given me permission to give out his contact information so I have cc'd him in my reply to you. He can give you the specifics of any testing and evaluation that has been done relative to this process and can give you quotes, etc. should you just be interested in the Isonite by itself as I use it.

One last quick note on chrome lining. Such barrels have the reputation of changing point of impact when heated up. I have found this to be very true. It may be due to the way the different metals (chrome molly and chrome) expand inside the bore. What ever the reason, it does happen and, again, this was verified on a state of the art machine rest. Isonite doesn't exhibit this characteristic.

I am sure you are well aware of some of the things I covered. Lacking specific questions, I just sort of used a shotgun approach which ended up being fairly long. If I left anything unanswered please feel free to get back to me. I have enabled my Spam Blocker to allow your e-mails to come in with out the automated hate responses that Earth Link sends out. I am sure Joel would also be glad to clarify the technical aspects of the Salt Bath Nitriding process. So far I am very pleased with it.

Best of luck!


At the present Mimi Trutec is not doing receivers as they do not have their FFL. They will do your non serialized parts.</div></div>
 
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