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Rob01 said:
It is a fucked up situation but what you typed is just wrong. Not everyone is entitled to the price LO was offering. Also you don't have to pass the bar to see that Vortex as a company has no liability at all in this. They just fill the orders sent in and then when paid by LO ship them out. Vortex does not have to do squat for anyone here and that they are trying to help shows they care about their customers. That doesn't entitle everyone who bought a scope from another vendor at a higher price the right to get some refund from Vortex for the difference. That is what it boils down to plain and simple. @Scott_at_Vortex and @Shamus Terry are going above and beyond anything they have to do either legally or morally. That is the take away from this situation.
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I didn't mean to open a can of worms, but I'll bite since you want to continue trying to flame me...

I was being hypothetical when I suggested that if Vortex was going to sell scopes to peeps for $1800, then they should offer that price to everyone and maybe even reimburse those who paid more to other vendors who were respecting and honoring Vortex's pricing policies without bending any rules (IDK, like many of the vendors who are paying to keep the lights on around here by advertising on this site like Europtic, Camera Land, etc).

Liberty Optics was offering a killer deal with their pricing and I don't fault anyone who took advantage while it lasted.

But, make no mistake, it was shady. Them (Scott at LO) getting away with skirting the MAP pricing rules hurt the other stocking vendors who were respecting Vortex's rules and put them at a disadvantage, and sounds like it may have contributed to making the line longer for LE/Mil peeps who qualified for that "special" pricing getting their scopes.

I never ordered from Scott at Liberty Optics, mostly because I'm impatient, but also because I recognized that his lead times were longer than my credit card companies' charge-back windows, which was sketchy. Caveat emptor.

I'm not against Vortex helping those who got hosed and lost money, if they can and want to, of course they should.

But if Vortex is going to continue to honor the Liberty Optics price, then they have effectively undermined their other vendors who kept things above board, and it is akin to lowering the official price... which is then a disservice to those customers who weren't as "lucky" and paid more.

Sorry to be so controversial.
 
CK1.0 said:
I didn't mean to open a can of worms, but I'll bite since you want to continue trying to flame me...

I was being hypothetical when I suggested that if Vortex was going to sell scopes to peeps for $1800, then they should offer that price to everyone and maybe even reimburse those who paid more to other vendors who were respecting and honoring Vortex's pricing policies without bending any rules (IDK, like many of the vendors who are paying to keep the lights on around here by advertising on this site like Europtic, Camera Land, etc).

Liberty Optics was offering a killer deal with their pricing and I don't fault anyone who took advantage while it lasted.

But, make no mistake, it was shady. Them (Scott at LO) getting away with skirting the MAP pricing rules hurt the other stocking vendors who were respecting Vortex's rules and put them at a disadvantage, and sounds like it may have contributed to making the line longer for LE/Mil peeps who qualified for that "special" pricing getting their scopes.

I never ordered from Scott at Liberty Optics, mostly because I'm impatient, but also because I recognized that his lead times were longer than my credit card companies' charge-back windows, which was sketchy. Caveat emptor.

I'm not against Vortex helping those who got hosed and lost money, if they can and want to, of course they should.

But if Vortex is going to continue to honor the Liberty Optics price, then they have effectively undermined their other vendors who kept things above board, and it is akin to lowering the official price... which is then a disservice to those customers who weren't as "lucky" and paid more.

Sorry to be so controversial.
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Flame you? LOL No just addressing your post which was not hypothetical so don't try that BS.

Vortex is not going to continue to honor the LO price but might for the people who had them ordered and just help them out. Not hurting other vendors but helping their customers. This situation has nothing to do with other vendors or customers. It was you that brought that in and spoke of refunds. Refunds to other vendors customers are not controversial. They are ridiculous and idiotic. So if someone bought at the MAP from one vendor but someone else got a better deal at another vendor who had a sale, both above board and not a LO situation, then does Vortex owe the person that paid more a refund? Yeah that's how silly it sounds.

This situation is Vortex stepping in to help people who it appears have been taken advantage of and trying to help them. Period. Not setting up new pricing structures or hurting other vendors or customers.
 
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Rob01 said:
Flame you? LOL No just addressing your post which was not hypothetical so don't try that BS.

Vortex is not going to continue to honor the LO price but might for the people who had them ordered and just help them out. Not hurting other vendors but helping their customers. This situation has nothing to do with other vendors or customers. It was you that brought that in and spoke of refunds. Refunds to other vendors customers are not controversial. They are ridiculous and idiotic. So if someone bought at the MAP from one vendor but someone else got a better deal at another vendor who had a sale, both above board and not a LO situation, then does Vortex owe the person that paid more a refund? Yeah that's how silly it sounds.

This situation is Vortex stepping in to help people who it appears have been taken advantage of and trying to help them. Period. Not setting up new pricing structures or hurting other vendors or customers.
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Well, and at the risk of being "that guy", how many other vendors (to LO) have stepped up to the plate and bitten the bullet in the manner that Vortex has done ? My guess is none. Maybe others will in time, maybe not.

That is not to disparage any other vendor. In my personal opinion, they don't owe anything to anyone. But, Vortex really hung it out in the breeze, having taken body shots that weren't their's to take. Quite impressive IME.

The cost of doing this will come out of Vortex's budget somewhere and probably sooner than later. But, they could have either invested those dollars in print/Internet advertising, or by doing this. IMO, this is a far, far better investment.

I firmly believe that because of Vortex's actions, people will be talking about Vortex in a very positive light well into the future.

Brilliant move Vortex, Kudos to you. ;)
 
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Rob01 said:
Flame you? LOL No just addressing your post which was not hypothetical so don't try that BS.

Vortex is not going to continue to honor the LO price but might for the people who had them ordered and just help them out. Not hurting other vendors but helping their customers. This situation has nothing to do with other vendors or customers. It was you that brought that in and spoke of refunds. Refunds to other vendors customers are not controversial. They are ridiculous and idiotic. So if someone bought at the MAP from one vendor but someone else got a better deal at another vendor who had a sale, both above board and not a LO situation, then does Vortex owe the person that paid more a refund? Yeah that's how silly it sounds.

This situation is Vortex stepping in to help people who it appears have been taken advantage of and trying to help them. Period. Not setting up new pricing structures or hurting other vendors or customers.
Click to expand...

You didn't happen to have any scopes on order, did you?

Because IMO, saying that it's ok for Vortex to sell scopes to guys who didn't lose anything beyond getting their feelings hurt, for $1800, "to help them out", is what it BS. There's no need to help them out because they didn't lose anything other than a deal they probably shouldn't have gotten in the first place. And saying this has nothing to do with other vendors or customers when other vendors definitely lost sales due to not being able to match the LO price, and when other customers who didn't want to take a chance on a shady outfit had to pay, or paid, more, is also BS.

It's ok to be pissed at me because you feel like I'm some dickhead from the internet that might make it so you and a few others miss out on some super sweet scope deal... but not because I'm wrong, because I'm not.
 
Threadcutter308 said:
Well, and at the risk of being "that guy", how many other vendors (to LO) have stepped up to the plate and bitten the bullet in the manner that Vortex has done ? My guess is none. Maybe others will in time, maybe not.

That is not to disparage any other vendor. In my personal opinion, they don't owe anything to anyone. But, Vortex really hung it out in the breeze, having taken body shots that weren't their's to take. Quite impressive IME.

The cost of doing this will come out of Vortex's budget somewhere and probably sooner than later. But, they could have either invested those dollars in print/Internet advertising, or by doing this. IMO, this is a far, far better investment.

I firmly believe that because of Vortex's actions, people will be talking about Vortex in a very positive light well into the future.

Brilliant move Vortex, Kudos to you. ;)
Click to expand...
When I said "vendors" I was talking about the selling companies like EuroOptics etc. They are the vendors. Not the scope companies like Vortex that supply their product to the vendors.

Vortex is definitely stepping up and should be commended for it. They care about they customers.
 
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CK1.0 said:
You didn't happen to have any scopes on order, did you?

Because IMO, saying that it's ok for Vortex to sell scopes to guys who didn't lose anyhing beyond getting their feelings hurt, for $1800, "to help them out", is what it BS. And saying this has nothing to do with other vendors or customers, when other vendors definitly lost sales due to not being able to match the LO price, and when other customers who didn't want to take a chance on an shady outfit had to pay, or paid, more, is also BS.

It's ok to be pissed at me because you feel like I'm some dickhead from the internet that might make it so you and a few others miss out on some super sweet scope deal... but not because I'm wrong, because I'm not.
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Nope no scopes on order from LO and if you think what Vortex is doing is BS then that's your opinion. I can find a lot of people who feel the opposite.

And I am not pissed at you. You are just wrong. What if Vortex just wanted to give them a scope to step up. So they should give everyone else a scope too? No. They are taking care of a specific situation. You thinking everyone else should get something too is just wrong. Period.
 
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Rob01 said:
When I said "vendors" I was talking about the selling companies like EuroOptics etc. They are the vendors. Not the scope companies like Vortex that supply their product to the vendors.

Vortex is definitely stepping up and should be commended for it. They care about they customers.
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Not looking to get into sumo wrestling for shrimp. I was intentionally being vague and not naming other "manufacturers". I should have been clearer in that I meant "manufacturers" and not "vendors" (meaning LO competitors).

Yes, I am very impressed by Vortex's actions. They speak far louder than mere words.
 
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Threadcutter308 said:
Not looking to get into sumo wrestling for shrimp. I was intentionally being vague and not naming other "manufacturers". I should have been clearer in that I meant "manufacturers" and not "vendors" (meaning LO competitors).

Yes, I am very impressed by Vortex's actions. They speak far louder than mere words.
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That's fine. I was just clarifying that when I said vendor I meant the selling company and not the manufacturer so it read the right way it was intended.
 
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TheOE800 said:
What does any of this have to do with black Vortex Razors at EO?
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Nothing and sorry for derailing that post. Just rollover from the whole Liberty Optics issue. I'm done in here as I said my part on his post.
 
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TheOE800 said:
What does any of this have to do with black Vortex Razors at EO?
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Don’t harsh the mellow maaan

🌝🚬💨

You know, every time I look at your username I hear the song Jungle Love by Prince…o e o e ooo



3CFBD260-F986-464C-97CD-8D57B2787405.jpeg


— Spicoli
 
Now do I sell mine and buy a black, or try and trade strait up...or try and trade for a slight loss.
Either way, I'd MUCH rather have black.
 
Rob01 said:
Nope no scopes on order from LO and if you think what Vortex is doing is BS then that's your opinion. I can find a lot of people who feel the opposite.

And I am not pissed at you. You are just wrong. What if Vortex just wanted to give them a scope to step up. So they should give everyone else a scope too? No. They are taking care of a specific situation. You thinking everyone else should get something too is just wrong. Period.
Click to expand...

I applaud Vortex for trying to bring some good to a bad situation and helping the guys out who cannot get their money back and didn't get a scope.

That said, ordering from Liberty Optics was a chance some guys decided to take on their own, and while it sucks how things went down, if they were able to recover their funds, then they've already been made whole.

I honestly don't care anymore, just wish I'd ordered one, because $1800 is a steal.

But then it wouldn't be black, so oh well.
 
My google-fu is failing me. Does anyone have a link to an image of the MIL reticle at 6 power? I cannot seem to find one.
 
Last edited:
Nice pics. Makes me miss my Gen 3s. ;)
 
18ish power at 450 yards.
 

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damn...I wanna trade someone for a black one.
I got my 2nd Gen3 like...a week before I saw this get released.
Would have waited for sure...I hate Vortex Purple
 
Scopeye said:
Black Friday sales coming soon.
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I can't imagine it being better than using a EuroOptic 30% off cert off of 2449.
Tax and shipping was still below 2000.
But if it is, I'll probably buy another one
 
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You can't use the 30% cert on the black razors. I asked. Don't think you can use anything to drop the price. Says this on the black razor page: Not compatible with VTX12 or any other promo code at this time.
 
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Rob01 said:
You can't use the 30% cert on the black razors. I asked. Don't think you can use anything to drop the price. Says this on the black razor page: Not compatible with VTX12 or any other promo code at this time.
Click to expand...
I’m waiting for the “at this time” to go away 😀
 
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