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Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5 year old video.... </div></div>
still interesting - and i just seen it now - sorry if that bothers you
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5 year old video.... </div></div>
still interesting - and i just seen it now - sorry if that bothers you
Re: blackwater in iraq
The video sucks.
What good is it if there isn't a story going with it.
How about finding out why they were rushing and why. Might make a whole lot of difference.
It's like posting a video of a cop running with lights and sirens. Without the story as to why, you could assume he's heading for lunch, when he could very well be rushing to an injury accident.
I never worked for Blackwater, but I do understand a bit of what they do. From what I understand they're pretty good at it.
I'm not into condemning anyone without knowing the whole story.
The video sucks.
What good is it if there isn't a story going with it.
How about finding out why they were rushing and why. Might make a whole lot of difference.
It's like posting a video of a cop running with lights and sirens. Without the story as to why, you could assume he's heading for lunch, when he could very well be rushing to an injury accident.
I never worked for Blackwater, but I do understand a bit of what they do. From what I understand they're pretty good at it.
I'm not into condemning anyone without knowing the whole story.
Re: blackwater in iraq
rather over there than over here disarming and intimidating law-abiding citizens.
rather over there than over here disarming and intimidating law-abiding citizens.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rather over there than over here disarming and intimidating law-abiding citizens. </div></div>
^^^^^^^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rather over there than over here disarming and intimidating law-abiding citizens. </div></div>
^^^^^^^
Re: blackwater in iraq
I have ridden with them and they were very good at what they do.... The numbers speak for themselves. The methods might not be the best but were very effective.
The shit in LA, they knew it was wrong and had no business doing it. Any of them involved should never be able to put a dick beater on a weapon of any sort for the rest of their life.
This thread is about Iraq though.
I have ridden with them and they were very good at what they do.... The numbers speak for themselves. The methods might not be the best but were very effective.
The shit in LA, they knew it was wrong and had no business doing it. Any of them involved should never be able to put a dick beater on a weapon of any sort for the rest of their life.
This thread is about Iraq though.
Re: blackwater in iraq
It looks as if they were warning shots. They don't want to be boxed into a kill zone/box especially if they are guarding some one of importance.
It looks as if they were warning shots. They don't want to be boxed into a kill zone/box especially if they are guarding some one of importance.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks as if they were warning shots. They don't want to be boxed into a kill zone/box especially if they are guarding some one of importance. </div></div>
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks as if they were warning shots. They don't want to be boxed into a kill zone/box especially if they are guarding some one of importance. </div></div>
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks as if they were warning shots. They don't want to be boxed into a kill zone/box especially if they are guarding some one of importance. </div></div>
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly. </div></div>
I don't think they shot it out.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks as if they were warning shots. They don't want to be boxed into a kill zone/box especially if they are guarding some one of importance. </div></div>
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly. </div></div>
I don't think they shot it out.....
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly.</div></div>
He was shooting at the right front tire, as the car, via the driver's behavior, indicated, in his vehicular motion, that he might infiltrate the convoy.
The video information claims all this occurred on 2 June 2008 which I have a hard time believing because I never saw BW operate that way in Baghdad during that time period. If there was a reason, it was likely relegated to the bowels of context known only to the men at that moment or on that day, or in that neighborhood, etc.
This could have occurred on a day of a lot of intel activity regarding various groups indicating desire to attack, possible indications of a car bomb in that neighborhood matching that description, etc.
I saw nothing out of place in terms of expected PSD procedures as per the time and place, and the threat level; we operated that way as regular Army in 05 when situation dictated, including ad hoc PSD missions.
Is it something that is desired? Not really. Is it something that the combat environment of certain times and places dictates? Yep.
War ain't pretty, and it would behoove the American people to get over the idea of it being so.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly.</div></div>
He was shooting at the right front tire, as the car, via the driver's behavior, indicated, in his vehicular motion, that he might infiltrate the convoy.
The video information claims all this occurred on 2 June 2008 which I have a hard time believing because I never saw BW operate that way in Baghdad during that time period. If there was a reason, it was likely relegated to the bowels of context known only to the men at that moment or on that day, or in that neighborhood, etc.
This could have occurred on a day of a lot of intel activity regarding various groups indicating desire to attack, possible indications of a car bomb in that neighborhood matching that description, etc.
I saw nothing out of place in terms of expected PSD procedures as per the time and place, and the threat level; we operated that way as regular Army in 05 when situation dictated, including ad hoc PSD missions.
Is it something that is desired? Not really. Is it something that the combat environment of certain times and places dictates? Yep.
War ain't pretty, and it would behoove the American people to get over the idea of it being so.
Re: blackwater in iraq
"Hey honey, dinner's ready. How was your day?"
"It was fine until it turned to a load of camel shit. Some American fucks drove by and shot at me!"
"Whaaat? Why? What did you do?!?"
"Bitch please. This is Baghdad, Haji don't need to be doin' a damn thing to get shot at. I was coming back from the goat market, heard some noise, slowed down gently so as not to bruise the goat in the back and they fucking shot at me. Blew my tire and windshield."
"Those pig-eating motherfuckers! What are you going to do?"
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
To be honest, that vid looked like a scene from a shoot-'em up game. If they were transporting someone of that much importance you'd think a helicopter would have been better...?
"Hey honey, dinner's ready. How was your day?"
"It was fine until it turned to a load of camel shit. Some American fucks drove by and shot at me!"
"Whaaat? Why? What did you do?!?"
"Bitch please. This is Baghdad, Haji don't need to be doin' a damn thing to get shot at. I was coming back from the goat market, heard some noise, slowed down gently so as not to bruise the goat in the back and they fucking shot at me. Blew my tire and windshield."
"Those pig-eating motherfuckers! What are you going to do?"
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
To be honest, that vid looked like a scene from a shoot-'em up game. If they were transporting someone of that much importance you'd think a helicopter would have been better...?
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly.</div></div>
He was shooting at the right front tire, as the car, via the driver's behavior, indicated, in his vehicular motion, that he might infiltrate the convoy.
The video information claims all this occurred on 2 June 2008 which I have a hard time believing because I never saw BW operate that way in Baghdad during that time period. If there was a reason, it was likely relegated to the bowels of context known only to the men at that moment or on that day, or in that neighborhood, etc.
This could have occurred on a day of a lot of intel activity regarding various groups indicating desire to attack, possible indications of a car bomb in that neighborhood matching that description, etc.
I saw nothing out of place in terms of expected PSD procedures as per the time and place, and the threat level; we operated that way as regular Army in 05 when situation dictated, including ad hoc PSD missions.
Is it something that is desired? Not really. Is it something that the combat environment of certain times and places dictates? Yep.
<span style="font-weight: bold">War ain't pretty, and it would behoove the American people to get over the idea of it being so.</span></div></div>
Isn't that the truth ^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So that gives them the right to shoot out the window of the car in front of them. BULLSHIT, and thats putting it mildly.</div></div>
He was shooting at the right front tire, as the car, via the driver's behavior, indicated, in his vehicular motion, that he might infiltrate the convoy.
The video information claims all this occurred on 2 June 2008 which I have a hard time believing because I never saw BW operate that way in Baghdad during that time period. If there was a reason, it was likely relegated to the bowels of context known only to the men at that moment or on that day, or in that neighborhood, etc.
This could have occurred on a day of a lot of intel activity regarding various groups indicating desire to attack, possible indications of a car bomb in that neighborhood matching that description, etc.
I saw nothing out of place in terms of expected PSD procedures as per the time and place, and the threat level; we operated that way as regular Army in 05 when situation dictated, including ad hoc PSD missions.
Is it something that is desired? Not really. Is it something that the combat environment of certain times and places dictates? Yep.
<span style="font-weight: bold">War ain't pretty, and it would behoove the American people to get over the idea of it being so.</span></div></div>
Isn't that the truth ^
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
</div></div>
Isn't THIS the truth.
Do I like it? No. Do I blame them? No.
If a foreign military invaded the US...what would you do... Food for thought.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
</div></div>
Isn't THIS the truth.
Do I like it? No. Do I blame them? No.
If a foreign military invaded the US...what would you do... Food for thought.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
</div></div>
Isn't THIS the truth.
Do I like it? No. Do I blame them? No.
If a foreign military invaded the US...what would you do... Food for thought.</div></div>
If I had mind control powers, what would I do?
Might as well ask that. Who cares. Why cater to empathy with the enemy?
That's a piss-poor way to fight a war. What would you have done if you were a proud, young nationalistic German man in his early 20's? What about a proud Japanese man who had the training to fly, and the courage to die?
"What would I do in their shoes?" is great for when you are trying to circumvent, or at least develop contingency TTP's in case of Random Idea X actually happening. It's called falling to propaganda when it then seeps into the psyche of the home stands.
It's like friggin Vietnam all over again. Get a bunch of good men dead for what? So some fuckstick can continue to rob his people blind? Impose an environment of coercion, bribery, and, for certain groups, fear? Duck, Duck Dictatorships? WTF?
We lost this war at home, but we kicked a lot of ass overseas.
Do I support the war? No. It's run like shit and impossible anyway. But I'm not going to go down empathy lane, as it ends in defense of the indefensible.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
</div></div>
Isn't THIS the truth.
Do I like it? No. Do I blame them? No.
If a foreign military invaded the US...what would you do... Food for thought.</div></div>
If I had mind control powers, what would I do?
Might as well ask that. Who cares. Why cater to empathy with the enemy?
That's a piss-poor way to fight a war. What would you have done if you were a proud, young nationalistic German man in his early 20's? What about a proud Japanese man who had the training to fly, and the courage to die?
"What would I do in their shoes?" is great for when you are trying to circumvent, or at least develop contingency TTP's in case of Random Idea X actually happening. It's called falling to propaganda when it then seeps into the psyche of the home stands.
It's like friggin Vietnam all over again. Get a bunch of good men dead for what? So some fuckstick can continue to rob his people blind? Impose an environment of coercion, bribery, and, for certain groups, fear? Duck, Duck Dictatorships? WTF?
We lost this war at home, but we kicked a lot of ass overseas.
Do I support the war? No. It's run like shit and impossible anyway. But I'm not going to go down empathy lane, as it ends in defense of the indefensible.
Re: blackwater in iraq
I have no love for Blackwater (Backstabber) not because of what they have or haven't done overseas but because of what they did here on US soil.
Having said that, I wrote that dialog purely for comedy.
Having said that, the video was not a war being fought, it was a private enterprise at work. Different thing altogether.
I have no love for Blackwater (Backstabber) not because of what they have or haven't done overseas but because of what they did here on US soil.
Having said that, I wrote that dialog purely for comedy.
Having said that, the video was not a war being fought, it was a private enterprise at work. Different thing altogether.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Hey honey, dinner's ready. How was your day?"
"It was fine until it turned to a load of camel shit. Some American fucks drove by and shot at me!"
"Whaaat? Why? What did you do?!?"
"Bitch please. This is Baghdad, Haji don't need to be doin' a damn thing to get shot at. I was coming back from the goat market, heard some noise, slowed down gently so as not to bruise the goat in the back and they fucking shot at me. Blew my tire and windshield."
"Those pig-eating motherfuckers! What are you going to do?"
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
To be honest, that vid looked like a scene from a shoot-'em up game. If they were transporting someone of that much importance you'd think a helicopter would have been better...?</div></div>
ROTLMAO..same thing we did in Beirut. No internet back then or assholes with cameras.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Hey honey, dinner's ready. How was your day?"
"It was fine until it turned to a load of camel shit. Some American fucks drove by and shot at me!"
"Whaaat? Why? What did you do?!?"
"Bitch please. This is Baghdad, Haji don't need to be doin' a damn thing to get shot at. I was coming back from the goat market, heard some noise, slowed down gently so as not to bruise the goat in the back and they fucking shot at me. Blew my tire and windshield."
"Those pig-eating motherfuckers! What are you going to do?"
"Bitch, I'm gonna strap a bomb to my pissed off ass and blow some shit up."
"Ok honey, do you want your dinner first?"
Just trying to see it from the other side... lol
To be honest, that vid looked like a scene from a shoot-'em up game. If they were transporting someone of that much importance you'd think a helicopter would have been better...?</div></div>
ROTLMAO..same thing we did in Beirut. No internet back then or assholes with cameras.
Re: blackwater in iraq
so what exactly did they do in LA ? Was this a katrina related event disarming ?
so what exactly did they do in LA ? Was this a katrina related event disarming ?
Re: blackwater in iraq
I guess you had to be there to understand what its like to drive around in a country where folks are looking for an opening to kill you.
No person, country or orginization is perfect but one thing is certain,. War suck and folks get killed. Blackwater took all the bad assed details that no one else would do. They did a good job but had some bad things happen as well.
I suggest you go look at some VBIED ( Vehicle Born Improvised Explosive Device) Videos and see how close you want folks to you. My first week in Iraq I got to see what a VBIED could do when hundreds died from one bomb. That will open your eyes.
Add the every other night Rocket/Mortar attacks, and seeing US Personell being sent home in bags and well you start to understand why some bad things happen.
The only way to avoid this is to bring our folks home, then bitch when we start having bomb attacks here.
God bless and save all who protect in what ever uniform they wear.
I guess you had to be there to understand what its like to drive around in a country where folks are looking for an opening to kill you.
No person, country or orginization is perfect but one thing is certain,. War suck and folks get killed. Blackwater took all the bad assed details that no one else would do. They did a good job but had some bad things happen as well.
I suggest you go look at some VBIED ( Vehicle Born Improvised Explosive Device) Videos and see how close you want folks to you. My first week in Iraq I got to see what a VBIED could do when hundreds died from one bomb. That will open your eyes.
Add the every other night Rocket/Mortar attacks, and seeing US Personell being sent home in bags and well you start to understand why some bad things happen.
The only way to avoid this is to bring our folks home, then bitch when we start having bomb attacks here.
God bless and save all who protect in what ever uniform they wear.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Speaking as someone who's lived with terrorist bombing threats against civilians (thanks IRA, may you all go fuck yourselves) and also as someone who lost a close friend to the assholes on the July 7th bombings 2005 in London, I get your point.
However, In regards to 'folks are looking for an opening to kill you'. Whatever happened to 'we will be greeted as liberators'?
It is possible to think that the chain of fuck-ups that allowed the insurgency to establish and flourish is also linked to allowing the type of actions and free-license that BW seemed to enjoy in the early days before it got kicked out?
Cause & Effect. Most people wish to treat and respond to the effect because digging into the cause of things usually brings light to things that some would rather leave in the dark.
I agree though, once things reach a certain level of FUBAR there is no alternative than making the best of it however ugly and counterproductive it might prove to be ultimately.
Speaking as someone who's lived with terrorist bombing threats against civilians (thanks IRA, may you all go fuck yourselves) and also as someone who lost a close friend to the assholes on the July 7th bombings 2005 in London, I get your point.
However, In regards to 'folks are looking for an opening to kill you'. Whatever happened to 'we will be greeted as liberators'?
It is possible to think that the chain of fuck-ups that allowed the insurgency to establish and flourish is also linked to allowing the type of actions and free-license that BW seemed to enjoy in the early days before it got kicked out?
Cause & Effect. Most people wish to treat and respond to the effect because digging into the cause of things usually brings light to things that some would rather leave in the dark.
I agree though, once things reach a certain level of FUBAR there is no alternative than making the best of it however ugly and counterproductive it might prove to be ultimately.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking as someone who's lived with terrorist bombing threats against civilians (thanks IRA, may you all go fuck yourselves) and also as someone who lost a close friend to the assholes on the July 7th bombings 2005 in London, I get your point.
However, In regards to 'folks are looking for an opening to kill you'. Whatever happened to 'we will be greeted as liberators'?
It is possible to think that the chain of fuck-ups that allowed the insurgency to establish and flourish is also linked to allowing the type of actions and free-license that BW seemed to enjoy in the early days before it got kicked out?
Cause & Effect. Most people wish to treat and respond to the effect because digging into the cause of things usually brings light to things that some would rather leave in the dark.
I agree though, once things reach a certain level of FUBAR there is no alternative than making the best of it however ugly and counterproductive it might prove to be ultimately. </div></div>
We where greated as liberators. We took the country and then politics kept us there. Politics brought the insurgents. By the way you do understand we are fighting mostly foreign nationals they are not Iraqi citizens dont you?
A brief, basic dummies guide to whats going on. By going to sand box we made it easier for the nuts to attack US Persons as we brought the victims to them. We had no choice once they attacked on 9/11. We needed to attack back and hit them in there bases. That brought us to Afghanistan ( By the way I was in Afghanistan in 2003 and we where treated very well then) Insurgents only have to make it to Iraq or Afghnanistan to attack us. They pour across the borders because,Pakistan Syria and Iran, let folks enter there countries and then exit into Iraq and Afghanistan to harm us and weakin the governments of Iraq and Afghnaistan.
Its a power play. Iran wants to have Iraq as there own. Pakistan wants to run Afghanistan. They all use the "Insurgents" to there own good. We stay to keep this from happening because we dont want more oil problems and for radicals to get an even stronger foothold in the world.
If we pull out we lose that part of the world and while we dont want to be there, we no longer have a choice. Newer version of cold war, only this time its aginst radicals being used by governments
If we go back to head in sand we will get hit again and with bigger weapons.
We did not start it but we need to keep the defense up.
Contractors have played a major part in this and to demonize them is wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking as someone who's lived with terrorist bombing threats against civilians (thanks IRA, may you all go fuck yourselves) and also as someone who lost a close friend to the assholes on the July 7th bombings 2005 in London, I get your point.
However, In regards to 'folks are looking for an opening to kill you'. Whatever happened to 'we will be greeted as liberators'?
It is possible to think that the chain of fuck-ups that allowed the insurgency to establish and flourish is also linked to allowing the type of actions and free-license that BW seemed to enjoy in the early days before it got kicked out?
Cause & Effect. Most people wish to treat and respond to the effect because digging into the cause of things usually brings light to things that some would rather leave in the dark.
I agree though, once things reach a certain level of FUBAR there is no alternative than making the best of it however ugly and counterproductive it might prove to be ultimately. </div></div>
We where greated as liberators. We took the country and then politics kept us there. Politics brought the insurgents. By the way you do understand we are fighting mostly foreign nationals they are not Iraqi citizens dont you?
A brief, basic dummies guide to whats going on. By going to sand box we made it easier for the nuts to attack US Persons as we brought the victims to them. We had no choice once they attacked on 9/11. We needed to attack back and hit them in there bases. That brought us to Afghanistan ( By the way I was in Afghanistan in 2003 and we where treated very well then) Insurgents only have to make it to Iraq or Afghnanistan to attack us. They pour across the borders because,Pakistan Syria and Iran, let folks enter there countries and then exit into Iraq and Afghanistan to harm us and weakin the governments of Iraq and Afghnaistan.
Its a power play. Iran wants to have Iraq as there own. Pakistan wants to run Afghanistan. They all use the "Insurgents" to there own good. We stay to keep this from happening because we dont want more oil problems and for radicals to get an even stronger foothold in the world.
If we pull out we lose that part of the world and while we dont want to be there, we no longer have a choice. Newer version of cold war, only this time its aginst radicals being used by governments
If we go back to head in sand we will get hit again and with bigger weapons.
We did not start it but we need to keep the defense up.
Contractors have played a major part in this and to demonize them is wrong.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Yes, I realize the insurgents are mostly foreign, but I don't buy the Iraq/9-11 thing. That was all politics from beginning to end.
I've no reason to believe BW didn't add value overseas. However, like the insurgents, I'd rather they stayed over there than whore themselves out here to subvert the Constitution. Let's face it, 9/11 was a wound but not fatal to our country. What is fatal is the ability of politicians to make use of willing and unthinking men to subvert the freedoms of their own country. What's the point in killing insurgents abroad if only to destroy the very same freedoms they were helping to defend?!?
I just don't see or understand how anyone can view BW without putting LA into the context. Forget shooting out Haji's tires, what about going door-to-door, 4 to 6 deep, fully loaded and demanding the arms and oftentimes sole means of defense from people hiding from looters in their own homes?!?
Yeah, seems like they'll take any bad ass job...
Yes, I realize the insurgents are mostly foreign, but I don't buy the Iraq/9-11 thing. That was all politics from beginning to end.
I've no reason to believe BW didn't add value overseas. However, like the insurgents, I'd rather they stayed over there than whore themselves out here to subvert the Constitution. Let's face it, 9/11 was a wound but not fatal to our country. What is fatal is the ability of politicians to make use of willing and unthinking men to subvert the freedoms of their own country. What's the point in killing insurgents abroad if only to destroy the very same freedoms they were helping to defend?!?
I just don't see or understand how anyone can view BW without putting LA into the context. Forget shooting out Haji's tires, what about going door-to-door, 4 to 6 deep, fully loaded and demanding the arms and oftentimes sole means of defense from people hiding from looters in their own homes?!?
Yeah, seems like they'll take any bad ass job...
Re: blackwater in iraq
Definition of "Insurgent" I believe has very little to do w/ a persons country of origin.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurgent
Definition of "Insurgent" I believe has very little to do w/ a persons country of origin.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurgent
Re: blackwater in iraq
Not Speaking for all contractors but majority had no business there and caused a lot of problems.. Majority of insurgents in Iraq were Iraqis..so please tell me what nationality were the enemy you encountered Afghanistan in 03 since I was there too that year.
Not Speaking for all contractors but majority had no business there and caused a lot of problems.. Majority of insurgents in Iraq were Iraqis..so please tell me what nationality were the enemy you encountered Afghanistan in 03 since I was there too that year.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Well, I havent been over there buy I can say that the animals that are overthere fighting against our military dont seem to follow the rules set out to our guys. So fogive me for my two cents but Im not mad at the Marines for pissing on people. Im not mad for Abu Gharib (SP)... It is a WAR.... Life is not fair, being Americans we know that. Most people work hard for what they have, some times no matter what you get dealt a shit hand. Wars are fought to conquer nations. Period, so if our boys have to get a little dirty and fight with the same mentality I want to be a juror on their trial. GO USA
Well, I havent been over there buy I can say that the animals that are overthere fighting against our military dont seem to follow the rules set out to our guys. So fogive me for my two cents but Im not mad at the Marines for pissing on people. Im not mad for Abu Gharib (SP)... It is a WAR.... Life is not fair, being Americans we know that. Most people work hard for what they have, some times no matter what you get dealt a shit hand. Wars are fought to conquer nations. Period, so if our boys have to get a little dirty and fight with the same mentality I want to be a juror on their trial. GO USA
Re: blackwater in iraq
Many guys who worked Contractor jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq refused to work contractor jobs in LA. I turned down many contractor companies for LA because Ijust did not want to do that. I had spent a career as a cop and did not want to point a weapon at US Citizens in a mess. I have no first hand knowledge of what anyone did there, but I do know which hunts happen all the time AND MAKE THINGS LOOK FAR WORSE THAN THEY ARE.
Contractors are like everyone else out there. Good and bad. Some of the High Speed Contractor Direct Action Teams are as good as most any military unit, since they have mostly highly experienced ex military personell on them.
Some of the contractors did give a bad name. Heck when I saw some guys working some convoy duty. The wild bunch so to speak, but that was a limited amount of folks. I just lowered my head and thanked God I was an LEPP Contractor, in US Army Uniform so guys did not think I was a contractor. Yes a stinking contractor, embedded in military as many others who work ever day to keep military folks safe
In 2003, Afghanistan had Afghan born Taliban, Pakistan born Taliban, Arabs, and Chechnian born insurgents, that I knew of. My Iraq experience is 2009/2010 and depends on what part of country your working on where the insurgents are from. One thing certain is bomb makers where either form Iran or trained by Iran and many explosives where from Iran.
Think of this a coule of US Military folks have gone over the edge and done wrong shit but that is such a small number its hardly noticeable in the scheme of things. Contractors have run so many missions without problems.
The war would not have run without contractors unless some more folks joined up and served the country. But what would Nintendo do if suddenly folks actually did something instead of bitching. Basically all non combat and non air ops are contractor run these days.
I wish I could still be there. Cant as I destroyed my back last gig. Best job I ever had and had some coin to out the kids through college, since my PD Retirement sucks. Nothing like going after real bad guys and brother Iraq and Afghanistan are full of Bogie Men you dont want near the children
Many guys who worked Contractor jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq refused to work contractor jobs in LA. I turned down many contractor companies for LA because Ijust did not want to do that. I had spent a career as a cop and did not want to point a weapon at US Citizens in a mess. I have no first hand knowledge of what anyone did there, but I do know which hunts happen all the time AND MAKE THINGS LOOK FAR WORSE THAN THEY ARE.
Contractors are like everyone else out there. Good and bad. Some of the High Speed Contractor Direct Action Teams are as good as most any military unit, since they have mostly highly experienced ex military personell on them.
Some of the contractors did give a bad name. Heck when I saw some guys working some convoy duty. The wild bunch so to speak, but that was a limited amount of folks. I just lowered my head and thanked God I was an LEPP Contractor, in US Army Uniform so guys did not think I was a contractor. Yes a stinking contractor, embedded in military as many others who work ever day to keep military folks safe
In 2003, Afghanistan had Afghan born Taliban, Pakistan born Taliban, Arabs, and Chechnian born insurgents, that I knew of. My Iraq experience is 2009/2010 and depends on what part of country your working on where the insurgents are from. One thing certain is bomb makers where either form Iran or trained by Iran and many explosives where from Iran.
Think of this a coule of US Military folks have gone over the edge and done wrong shit but that is such a small number its hardly noticeable in the scheme of things. Contractors have run so many missions without problems.
The war would not have run without contractors unless some more folks joined up and served the country. But what would Nintendo do if suddenly folks actually did something instead of bitching. Basically all non combat and non air ops are contractor run these days.
I wish I could still be there. Cant as I destroyed my back last gig. Best job I ever had and had some coin to out the kids through college, since my PD Retirement sucks. Nothing like going after real bad guys and brother Iraq and Afghanistan are full of Bogie Men you dont want near the children
Re: blackwater in iraq
i guess you know thats travis haley? they were actually going in to get people out... stopped largest scale attack at that point in time.
i guess you know thats travis haley? they were actually going in to get people out... stopped largest scale attack at that point in time.
Re: blackwater in iraq
I always supported the idea blackwater, as tactical said labeling all of Blackwater for the actions of a couple is wrong. Kind of like the marine situation with the pissing on dead bodies, regardless of opinion of right or wrong you can't condemn the entire Marine Corps for the actions of 4-5 men. This is my personal opinion but i always felt blackwater gave the soldier the payment he deserved. And that can be misconstrued to an extent but i like the idea of a soldier getting paid well for doing good more than i like the idea of a non educated athlete making millions for catching a ball. Which is of zero importance.
Also since the civilian shooting over seas they've had to rebrand to XE IIRC.
Just my take on things.
I always supported the idea blackwater, as tactical said labeling all of Blackwater for the actions of a couple is wrong. Kind of like the marine situation with the pissing on dead bodies, regardless of opinion of right or wrong you can't condemn the entire Marine Corps for the actions of 4-5 men. This is my personal opinion but i always felt blackwater gave the soldier the payment he deserved. And that can be misconstrued to an extent but i like the idea of a soldier getting paid well for doing good more than i like the idea of a non educated athlete making millions for catching a ball. Which is of zero importance.
Also since the civilian shooting over seas they've had to rebrand to XE IIRC.
Just my take on things.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Frankly, I don't give a fuck how they run things over there. War isn't supposed to be pretty. Go over, get the job done with the least amount of US casualties, and get the fuck out. I don't care if you have to turn the entire country into glass, because I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
Frankly, I don't give a fuck how they run things over there. War isn't supposed to be pretty. Go over, get the job done with the least amount of US casualties, and get the fuck out. I don't care if you have to turn the entire country into glass, because I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Mike,
I appreciate, truly, your conscience ruling over your wallet and not taking the LA jobs. However, there were enough who did and the presidence has been set and now so has the plan should forced civilian disarmament be in the works again.
Has BW or Xe, made a statement that they regret their role in LA and will never provide services that are blatantly illegal and anti-Constitutional against US Citizens on US soil? If so, I've missed it.
One serious 'bad' can and in this case, does, cancel out the good done elsewhere. Given that it was my tax dollars that paid for BW/XE it makes me sick.
Mike,
I appreciate, truly, your conscience ruling over your wallet and not taking the LA jobs. However, there were enough who did and the presidence has been set and now so has the plan should forced civilian disarmament be in the works again.
Has BW or Xe, made a statement that they regret their role in LA and will never provide services that are blatantly illegal and anti-Constitutional against US Citizens on US soil? If so, I've missed it.
One serious 'bad' can and in this case, does, cancel out the good done elsewhere. Given that it was my tax dollars that paid for BW/XE it makes me sick.
Re: blackwater in iraq
so what did you see wrong in very edited 19 second video?
i saw a job very well done..
i see two vehicles that crept through towards the convoy as they approached while the other vehicles around them didnt have any problem coming to a stop..
a big ass truck coming towards the intersection at a good rate of speed in wich the driver of that truck would have had plenty of time to see the convoy approaching and failed to reduce speed and stop.
and the suzuki truck failing to get to the right side of the road and attempting to slow and control the speed of convoy making them an easier target for attack. and he was gently pushed out of the way by the humvee.. and yes that was gentle, i have seen iraqi psd teams completly t-bone a vehicle into a building then every truck in that convoy that passed shot at it..
up gunner used controlled , aimed, short bursts of fire at the tires and engine block when he followed the ROE's that were in place (that are State Dept approved.) when the vehicles became threats.
video shows the view from the lead truck, there are at least four more subs behind him running lights and sirens and prob another humvee bringing up the rear, and possibly two little birds scouting the route and flying low around the convoy..not exactly low profile, easily seen and heard with markings written with warnings of stay back.. very loud and very visible 99% of the locals will stop or yield way.. then there are knuckle heads that do dumb things, and then there are bad guys who do worse things..
you can complain and moan about it all you want, but nothing was done wrong in this video that fell outside of the Rules Of Engagement.
so what did you see wrong in very edited 19 second video?
i saw a job very well done..
i see two vehicles that crept through towards the convoy as they approached while the other vehicles around them didnt have any problem coming to a stop..
a big ass truck coming towards the intersection at a good rate of speed in wich the driver of that truck would have had plenty of time to see the convoy approaching and failed to reduce speed and stop.
and the suzuki truck failing to get to the right side of the road and attempting to slow and control the speed of convoy making them an easier target for attack. and he was gently pushed out of the way by the humvee.. and yes that was gentle, i have seen iraqi psd teams completly t-bone a vehicle into a building then every truck in that convoy that passed shot at it..
up gunner used controlled , aimed, short bursts of fire at the tires and engine block when he followed the ROE's that were in place (that are State Dept approved.) when the vehicles became threats.
video shows the view from the lead truck, there are at least four more subs behind him running lights and sirens and prob another humvee bringing up the rear, and possibly two little birds scouting the route and flying low around the convoy..not exactly low profile, easily seen and heard with markings written with warnings of stay back.. very loud and very visible 99% of the locals will stop or yield way.. then there are knuckle heads that do dumb things, and then there are bad guys who do worse things..
you can complain and moan about it all you want, but nothing was done wrong in this video that fell outside of the Rules Of Engagement.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I realize the insurgents are mostly foreign, but I don't buy the Iraq/9-11 thing. That was all politics from beginning to end.
I've no reason to believe BW didn't add value overseas. However, like the insurgents, I'd rather they stayed over there than whore themselves out here to subvert the Constitution. Let's face it, 9/11 was a wound but not fatal to our country. What is fatal is the ability of politicians to make use of willing and unthinking men to subvert the freedoms of their own country. What's the point in killing insurgents abroad if only to destroy the very same freedoms they were helping to defend?!?
I just don't see or understand how anyone can view BW without putting LA into the context. Forget shooting out Haji's tires, what about going door-to-door, 4 to 6 deep, fully loaded and demanding the arms and oftentimes sole means of defense from people hiding from looters in their own homes?!?
Yeah, seems like they'll take any bad ass job...
</div></div>
Did BW actually go door kicking in LA? I knew they were there protecting the hospitals and whatnot, but I didn't realize they were doing that. If you have any further info on the subject, I would love to see it. Not calling you a liar, I'm just curious about these sort of events!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I realize the insurgents are mostly foreign, but I don't buy the Iraq/9-11 thing. That was all politics from beginning to end.
I've no reason to believe BW didn't add value overseas. However, like the insurgents, I'd rather they stayed over there than whore themselves out here to subvert the Constitution. Let's face it, 9/11 was a wound but not fatal to our country. What is fatal is the ability of politicians to make use of willing and unthinking men to subvert the freedoms of their own country. What's the point in killing insurgents abroad if only to destroy the very same freedoms they were helping to defend?!?
I just don't see or understand how anyone can view BW without putting LA into the context. Forget shooting out Haji's tires, what about going door-to-door, 4 to 6 deep, fully loaded and demanding the arms and oftentimes sole means of defense from people hiding from looters in their own homes?!?
Yeah, seems like they'll take any bad ass job...
</div></div>
Did BW actually go door kicking in LA? I knew they were there protecting the hospitals and whatnot, but I didn't realize they were doing that. If you have any further info on the subject, I would love to see it. Not calling you a liar, I'm just curious about these sort of events!
Re: blackwater in iraq
BW in LA post Katrina was contracted to do security.
Any "disarming of citizens" was done under orders of state officials.
If you are looking to demonize anyone for shit during Katrina, look to the NOLA PD.
BW & NOLA PD had an armed stand off when BW was protecting an affluent home and NOLA PD tried to loot the residence.
This type of behavior by the NOLA PD was not an isolated incident.
All one has to do is look at the recent convictions of officers shooting citizens on the Danziger bridge.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/04/5_ex-cops_convicted_in_danzige.html
One thing I will say, there were some shady folks inadvertently contracted by BW for Katrina.
This occurred because of the speed that was required to respond to the event and since so many "high speed" folks were deployed to Iraq.
The vetting process for the ICs was lax but quickly caught up and the "undesirables" were removed from the details as soon as possible.
As far as ops in Iraq:
They were the only entity that could boast a 100% success rate for PSD.
Never loosing a principle under their protection in an environment like that is saying a lot.
BW in LA post Katrina was contracted to do security.
Any "disarming of citizens" was done under orders of state officials.
If you are looking to demonize anyone for shit during Katrina, look to the NOLA PD.
BW & NOLA PD had an armed stand off when BW was protecting an affluent home and NOLA PD tried to loot the residence.
This type of behavior by the NOLA PD was not an isolated incident.
All one has to do is look at the recent convictions of officers shooting citizens on the Danziger bridge.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/04/5_ex-cops_convicted_in_danzige.html
One thing I will say, there were some shady folks inadvertently contracted by BW for Katrina.
This occurred because of the speed that was required to respond to the event and since so many "high speed" folks were deployed to Iraq.
The vetting process for the ICs was lax but quickly caught up and the "undesirables" were removed from the details as soon as possible.
As far as ops in Iraq:
They were the only entity that could boast a 100% success rate for PSD.
Never loosing a principle under their protection in an environment like that is saying a lot.
Re: blackwater in iraq
That is the problem with mercenaries; sometimes they are more than willing to take jobs just for the money. I saw how those guys acted in Iraq on several tours and it ran the gambit of the the very well trained to the cowboys who just wanted to kill all the Iraqi's they could or at least intimidate them. The contractor situation was the result of the severe downsizing of the military that was not ready to fight a full scale war such as Iraq and it had to be contracted out the areas where the military was weak - logistics and security as the military was not willing to give up its personnel to secure facilities and State Department personnel.
That is the problem with mercenaries; sometimes they are more than willing to take jobs just for the money. I saw how those guys acted in Iraq on several tours and it ran the gambit of the the very well trained to the cowboys who just wanted to kill all the Iraqi's they could or at least intimidate them. The contractor situation was the result of the severe downsizing of the military that was not ready to fight a full scale war such as Iraq and it had to be contracted out the areas where the military was weak - logistics and security as the military was not willing to give up its personnel to secure facilities and State Department personnel.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the problem with mercenaries; sometimes they are more than willing to take jobs just for the money. I saw how those guys acted in Iraq on several tours and it ran the gambit of the the very well trained to the cowboys who just wanted to kill all the Iraqi's they could or at least intimidate them. The contractor situation was the result of the severe downsizing of the military that was not ready to fight a full scale war such as Iraq and it had to be contracted out the areas where the military was weak - logistics and security as the military was not willing to give up its personnel to secure facilities and State Department personnel. </div></div>
You missed a few points us "Mercenaries" did also
1. Direct Action Teams
2. Intelligence
3. Investigations
4. Training Military and localsOr places they needed highly trained folks and had a lack of on hand in military.
Some of us "Mercenaries" where they fighting for our country not just a pay check
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the problem with mercenaries; sometimes they are more than willing to take jobs just for the money. I saw how those guys acted in Iraq on several tours and it ran the gambit of the the very well trained to the cowboys who just wanted to kill all the Iraqi's they could or at least intimidate them. The contractor situation was the result of the severe downsizing of the military that was not ready to fight a full scale war such as Iraq and it had to be contracted out the areas where the military was weak - logistics and security as the military was not willing to give up its personnel to secure facilities and State Department personnel. </div></div>
You missed a few points us "Mercenaries" did also
1. Direct Action Teams
2. Intelligence
3. Investigations
4. Training Military and localsOr places they needed highly trained folks and had a lack of on hand in military.
Some of us "Mercenaries" where they fighting for our country not just a pay check
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kthomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I realize the insurgents are mostly foreign, but I don't buy the Iraq/9-11 thing. That was all politics from beginning to end.
I've no reason to believe BW didn't add value overseas. However, like the insurgents, I'd rather they stayed over there than whore themselves out here to subvert the Constitution. Let's face it, 9/11 was a wound but not fatal to our country. What is fatal is the ability of politicians to make use of willing and unthinking men to subvert the freedoms of their own country. What's the point in killing insurgents abroad if only to destroy the very same freedoms they were helping to defend?!?
I just don't see or understand how anyone can view BW without putting LA into the context. Forget shooting out Haji's tires, what about going door-to-door, 4 to 6 deep, fully loaded and demanding the arms and oftentimes sole means of defense from people hiding from looters in their own homes?!?
I
Yeah, seems like they'll take any bad ass job...
</div></div>
Did BW actually go door kicking in LA? I knew they were there protecting the hospitals and whatnot, but I didn't realize they were doing that. If you have any further info on the subject, I would love to see it. Not calling you a liar, I'm just curious about these sort of events! </div></div>
Google this: blackwater katrina disarming
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kthomas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I realize the insurgents are mostly foreign, but I don't buy the Iraq/9-11 thing. That was all politics from beginning to end.
I've no reason to believe BW didn't add value overseas. However, like the insurgents, I'd rather they stayed over there than whore themselves out here to subvert the Constitution. Let's face it, 9/11 was a wound but not fatal to our country. What is fatal is the ability of politicians to make use of willing and unthinking men to subvert the freedoms of their own country. What's the point in killing insurgents abroad if only to destroy the very same freedoms they were helping to defend?!?
I just don't see or understand how anyone can view BW without putting LA into the context. Forget shooting out Haji's tires, what about going door-to-door, 4 to 6 deep, fully loaded and demanding the arms and oftentimes sole means of defense from people hiding from looters in their own homes?!?
I
Yeah, seems like they'll take any bad ass job...
</div></div>
Did BW actually go door kicking in LA? I knew they were there protecting the hospitals and whatnot, but I didn't realize they were doing that. If you have any further info on the subject, I would love to see it. Not calling you a liar, I'm just curious about these sort of events! </div></div>
Google this: blackwater katrina disarming
Re: blackwater in iraq
I was not hurt in combat. It was an accident as anyone who knows me already knows. If that was implied it was purely accidental, through piss poor written work on my behalf, I guess but I dont see anything that says I was doing anything when I got hurt. Broken back is broken back though and it fng changed how I live my life.
I worked with many LEPPS who where wounded in combat ops. More than one has come home in body bag. All depended on where you where assigned. I got lucky gig and had the every 2-4 day rocket or mortar attack thrown in basic direction, but with so much concrete around was probably in more danger as a Calif Cop than where I was. I take offense for the ones injured attempting to help this country. I take offense at alot of numb nuts who demean a whole class of guys because a few fucked up. I take offense at anyone who says someone is a mercenary because he is well paid for his experience and skill. By the way Medics make a metric ton over there but I certainly dont want them called bad names because they got paid for helping folks.
The LEPP Program is far from fraud. It is one of the more successful programs in the military. I was treated very well by Military folks in Iraq and home being part of the program. I cant not tell you all the good we did but if you have the clearence just go look up under all the LEPP prosecutions and cases. The Military Task Force guys I worked with did not seem to mind my help and asked a great deal of questions on how to better do things.
I know many guys who worked direct action teams and they where not Lepps. Not what the the LEPPS do. LEPPS are embedded, in uniform and travel with the military units they are assigned to. On patropl etc as need arises. LEPPS also known as Law Enforcement Professional Program is basically working IEDs and helping military with evidence collection, investigation etc. As to CID, most of the LEPPS have more investigative experience than the average CID has time on the planet. They do the best they can but hard to compete with 20 years investigavtive experience when your 19-20 years old. Our job was to help them as we could. Many still do that job. The minimum requirements where twelve years full time investigations with gang and orginized crime experience. Not exactly cherries in LE. Most had prior clearences and worked on many task forces. I was a babe in that group and barely qualified compared to the vast knowledge I worked with.
By the way I found out about the LEPP job from a CID friend who said it was perfect for me. He spoke very highly of the program, having worked CID in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He has retired from military and about to go back as a LEPP.
I was not hurt in combat. It was an accident as anyone who knows me already knows. If that was implied it was purely accidental, through piss poor written work on my behalf, I guess but I dont see anything that says I was doing anything when I got hurt. Broken back is broken back though and it fng changed how I live my life.
I worked with many LEPPS who where wounded in combat ops. More than one has come home in body bag. All depended on where you where assigned. I got lucky gig and had the every 2-4 day rocket or mortar attack thrown in basic direction, but with so much concrete around was probably in more danger as a Calif Cop than where I was. I take offense for the ones injured attempting to help this country. I take offense at alot of numb nuts who demean a whole class of guys because a few fucked up. I take offense at anyone who says someone is a mercenary because he is well paid for his experience and skill. By the way Medics make a metric ton over there but I certainly dont want them called bad names because they got paid for helping folks.
The LEPP Program is far from fraud. It is one of the more successful programs in the military. I was treated very well by Military folks in Iraq and home being part of the program. I cant not tell you all the good we did but if you have the clearence just go look up under all the LEPP prosecutions and cases. The Military Task Force guys I worked with did not seem to mind my help and asked a great deal of questions on how to better do things.
I know many guys who worked direct action teams and they where not Lepps. Not what the the LEPPS do. LEPPS are embedded, in uniform and travel with the military units they are assigned to. On patropl etc as need arises. LEPPS also known as Law Enforcement Professional Program is basically working IEDs and helping military with evidence collection, investigation etc. As to CID, most of the LEPPS have more investigative experience than the average CID has time on the planet. They do the best they can but hard to compete with 20 years investigavtive experience when your 19-20 years old. Our job was to help them as we could. Many still do that job. The minimum requirements where twelve years full time investigations with gang and orginized crime experience. Not exactly cherries in LE. Most had prior clearences and worked on many task forces. I was a babe in that group and barely qualified compared to the vast knowledge I worked with.
By the way I found out about the LEPP job from a CID friend who said it was perfect for me. He spoke very highly of the program, having worked CID in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He has retired from military and about to go back as a LEPP.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Being this thread is on Blackwater and given I have many close friends who were serviced with them. I feel they are some of the best in the world at what they do. Unfortunately sometimes they were too good in their mission and the public got a glimpse of it when they had no business. And at times they were made pawns as were mil personnnel for political purpose. There was a war and they were doing a mission that was unsuited most military units or would strain the the logistics of the ones qualified for it. Good contractors are an integral part of the war and always have been..The world needs contractors wheter they like it or not. To some Mercenaries/ soldiers for hire is a dirty word but like or dislike them, they do a lot of the dirty work politicians dont want their military involved in and throughout history specific armies for hire have won wars. Unfortunately there were a lot of bad apples recently and of course the media didnt help. The bad apples were ususally working for fly by night companies with undisciplined and poorly trained contractors who never served or would be even qualified to serve.
Being this thread is on Blackwater and given I have many close friends who were serviced with them. I feel they are some of the best in the world at what they do. Unfortunately sometimes they were too good in their mission and the public got a glimpse of it when they had no business. And at times they were made pawns as were mil personnnel for political purpose. There was a war and they were doing a mission that was unsuited most military units or would strain the the logistics of the ones qualified for it. Good contractors are an integral part of the war and always have been..The world needs contractors wheter they like it or not. To some Mercenaries/ soldiers for hire is a dirty word but like or dislike them, they do a lot of the dirty work politicians dont want their military involved in and throughout history specific armies for hire have won wars. Unfortunately there were a lot of bad apples recently and of course the media didnt help. The bad apples were ususally working for fly by night companies with undisciplined and poorly trained contractors who never served or would be even qualified to serve.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Look, I am sorry if I gave you the wrong idea of me being a hero type. What I am is a 50 plus year old broken down, retired SWAT Sniper who found his only way back into the fight, in 2009/2010 as an Investigator/Counter IED guy and Brother I worked my ass off over there attempting to help as much as possible so the assholes did not get to kill anymore of our fighting men
I have all the honor and respect for everyone who has gone and did our bidding in the war, you included. Contractor,Sailor, Marine, Airmen and Soldiers alike
Look, I am sorry if I gave you the wrong idea of me being a hero type. What I am is a 50 plus year old broken down, retired SWAT Sniper who found his only way back into the fight, in 2009/2010 as an Investigator/Counter IED guy and Brother I worked my ass off over there attempting to help as much as possible so the assholes did not get to kill anymore of our fighting men
I have all the honor and respect for everyone who has gone and did our bidding in the war, you included. Contractor,Sailor, Marine, Airmen and Soldiers alike
Re: blackwater in iraq
sorry for your injuries Tactical, but your not missing too much brother. Iraq has gone down the toilet.. A-stan is still a decent gig, but swirling the bowl as well.
To many folks who think they know what was going on, since they have the power of google and the ever fair and correct reports of the news have killed it all..
sorry for your injuries Tactical, but your not missing too much brother. Iraq has gone down the toilet.. A-stan is still a decent gig, but swirling the bowl as well.
To many folks who think they know what was going on, since they have the power of google and the ever fair and correct reports of the news have killed it all..
Re: blackwater in iraq
Anyone who is willing to pick up a weapon and put on a uniform and go to harms way to defend this country even for the scum that hate us or even foreigners in other lands who are oppressed wanting just freedom that have nothing to do with America is a hero and brother in my book. This is what distinguishes us Americans. Thanks for your service.
Anyone who is willing to pick up a weapon and put on a uniform and go to harms way to defend this country even for the scum that hate us or even foreigners in other lands who are oppressed wanting just freedom that have nothing to do with America is a hero and brother in my book. This is what distinguishes us Americans. Thanks for your service.
Re: blackwater in iraq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the problem with mercenaries; sometimes they are more than willing to take jobs just for the money. I saw how those guys acted in Iraq on several tours and it ran the gambit of the the very well trained to the cowboys who just wanted to kill all the Iraqi's they could or at least intimidate them. The contractor situation was the result of the severe downsizing of the military that was not ready to fight a full scale war such as Iraq and it had to be contracted out the areas where the military was weak - logistics and security as the military was not willing to give up its personnel to secure facilities and State Department personnel. </div></div>
You missed a few points us "Mercenaries" did also
1. Direct Action Teams
2. Intelligence
3. Investigations
4. Training Military and localsOr places they needed highly trained folks and had a lack of on hand in military.
Some of us "Mercenaries" where they fighting for our country not just a pay check</div></div> why do people get offended by the term mercenary as it is just part of wars - from Wikipedia "it means a person who takes part in an armed conflict, who is not a national or a party to the conflict, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party."
There is nothing wrong with that as I was not trying to be offense, just saying what I saw. I have been in numerous conflict regions and there were always mercenaries that worked there - Bosnia, Haiti, Iraq and Afghanistan - it is what it is - nothing new to armed conflict.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the problem with mercenaries; sometimes they are more than willing to take jobs just for the money. I saw how those guys acted in Iraq on several tours and it ran the gambit of the the very well trained to the cowboys who just wanted to kill all the Iraqi's they could or at least intimidate them. The contractor situation was the result of the severe downsizing of the military that was not ready to fight a full scale war such as Iraq and it had to be contracted out the areas where the military was weak - logistics and security as the military was not willing to give up its personnel to secure facilities and State Department personnel. </div></div>
You missed a few points us "Mercenaries" did also
1. Direct Action Teams
2. Intelligence
3. Investigations
4. Training Military and localsOr places they needed highly trained folks and had a lack of on hand in military.
Some of us "Mercenaries" where they fighting for our country not just a pay check</div></div> why do people get offended by the term mercenary as it is just part of wars - from Wikipedia "it means a person who takes part in an armed conflict, who is not a national or a party to the conflict, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party."
There is nothing wrong with that as I was not trying to be offense, just saying what I saw. I have been in numerous conflict regions and there were always mercenaries that worked there - Bosnia, Haiti, Iraq and Afghanistan - it is what it is - nothing new to armed conflict.
Re: blackwater in iraq
Tactical, what you have here is the same exact results that the military and police get all the time. Its a result of how the media has portrayed you. Its the same story, over and over again.
You read an article of Marines burning Qurans, then you see on the news Marines urinating on dead bodies, then you hear a Marine kills a bunch of civillians, well guess what kind of opinion the public will have on Marines. We all know its bullshit. Its irrational to hold every one of them accountable for the actions of the few.
Same goes for cops. Its all you hear in the media. Cop screwed up, cop broke the law, cop lost temper. Although since the role of a cop isnt as noble as that of a soldier, at least here, its easier to draw the same conclusions, and next thing you know, its time for all the "experts" who have not been there, and have not done that, BUT have an opinion that is suppose to carry more weight than education or experience. Its an uphill battle, I applaude you for what you did, and I hope you never look back with any type of regret. There are some here that get too washed up into the political aspect of the event, or the organization, and cannot comprehend what its like to be on the lower end of the totem pole, or what drives them is nothing similar to what drove you.
Tactical, what you have here is the same exact results that the military and police get all the time. Its a result of how the media has portrayed you. Its the same story, over and over again.
You read an article of Marines burning Qurans, then you see on the news Marines urinating on dead bodies, then you hear a Marine kills a bunch of civillians, well guess what kind of opinion the public will have on Marines. We all know its bullshit. Its irrational to hold every one of them accountable for the actions of the few.
Same goes for cops. Its all you hear in the media. Cop screwed up, cop broke the law, cop lost temper. Although since the role of a cop isnt as noble as that of a soldier, at least here, its easier to draw the same conclusions, and next thing you know, its time for all the "experts" who have not been there, and have not done that, BUT have an opinion that is suppose to carry more weight than education or experience. Its an uphill battle, I applaude you for what you did, and I hope you never look back with any type of regret. There are some here that get too washed up into the political aspect of the event, or the organization, and cannot comprehend what its like to be on the lower end of the totem pole, or what drives them is nothing similar to what drove you.
Re: blackwater in iraq
I think the roles of LEO and soldiers are every bit as noble. As a civvie I'm equally grateful and realize both are critical to this society.
The only thing to tarnish the role is how and who uses the authority that those roles come with.
I think the roles of LEO and soldiers are every bit as noble. As a civvie I'm equally grateful and realize both are critical to this society.
The only thing to tarnish the role is how and who uses the authority that those roles come with.
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