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Fieldcraft Body Armor killers before armor was around

..........and it seems once again armor is taking a smaller role as the means to destroy it have exceeded its ability to defend.

The other issue is that people now all expect everyone to be wearing that, good, bad, in between, and so everybody is now learning to aim and if you try to completely armour up so you can take a hit anywhere, you pretty much can't move.

So the next evolution will be everyone sending out their robots and drones to do their fighting for them, and then it will be robots / drones / hackers vs other robots / drones / hackers and before long there will be some plucky rebels fighting terminator robots in underground caves and seeking to smash the control centers. Then once the war is finally won and much blood was shed, the human survivors will outlaw AI and thinking machines.

Or that could just be a mashup of plots from books....
 
The other issue is that people now all expect everyone to be wearing that, good, bad, in between, and so everybody is now learning to aim and if you try to completely armour up so you can take a hit anywhere, you pretty much can't move.

So the next evolution will be everyone sending out their robots and drones to do their fighting for them, and then it will be robots / drones / hackers vs other robots / drones / hackers and before long there will be some plucky rebels fighting terminator robots in underground caves and seeking to smash the control centers. Then once the war is finally won and much blood was shed, the human survivors will outlaw AI and thinking machines.

Or that could just be a mashup of plots from books....

Firearms killed heavy cavalry for centuries until firearms reached their peak design in the machine gun and heavy cavalry came back in the form of tanks.

USMC is abandoning all tanks after watching Turkey detect and smoke Syrian armor at will with drones.

The next war will commence after the EMP duel.
 
The next war will commence after the EMP duel.

After the EMP duel you'll see everyone rolling out their secret EMP hardened weapons designed to be directly controlled by humans.
I'm fairly sure plenty are working on plans and building stuff that will work and communicate during active EMP events.

As everyone races to replace all their war stuff with drones and remote control which work really good when you are a super power fighting against sand dwellers, I'm fairly sure the top level players are working on their EMP weapons, hacking weapons and also how to counter what the other side does in the same manner.
 
The US Army did some experimenting with that too. Right on the eve of full blown ground combat in Vietnam. (There were already US boots on the ground as early as 1958, but mass deployment didn't begin until later) I believe the MA-3 glue-on type 3-bladed broadhead had been standard US Special Forces issue well into the late 1990's... Don't know if they are still being issued today as suppressed rifle technology have improved by light years...

This was part of a 1961 Special Forces exercise. Same type of bows would be used by MACVSOG in Vietnam. Sentry removal as well as setting fire to shit from the safety of a patrol boat in a river.




Jack Churchill did his own test on Germans....


 
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@pmclaine I disagree about armor. Under GEN Milley the Army has had a laser like focus on defeating enemy body armor. More so than I think is justified. But armor is readily available now that stops almost anything, if you’re hit in it.

On the other side, Russians are good at AP and have PKM bullets that put older armored vehicles at risk from machinegun fire.

Disagree about the cause of USMCs shift. This has been planned for years, not in the last few months. They are moving back to the Pacific and specializing in surface to ship missiles and security for the Navy. The opposed amphibious landing is dead, and if you need a port, they’ll let the Army bring the tanks.
 
@pmclaine I disagree about armor. Under GEN Milley the Army has had a laser like focus on defeating enemy body armor. More so than I think is justified. But armor is readily available now that stops almost anything, if you’re hit in it.

On the other side, Russians are good at AP and have PKM bullets that put older armored vehicles at risk from machinegun fire.

Disagree about the cause of USMCs shift. This has been planned for years, not in the last few months. They are moving back to the Pacific and specializing in surface to ship missiles and security for the Navy. The opposed amphibious landing is dead, and if you need a port, they’ll let the Army bring the tanks.


Marines will get the ports.

HIMARs will do the jobs of tanks......although I'm not sure how they are camouflaging them to avoid the drone threat other than through being deadly from the rear.

Hopefully Army still uses its tanks as Cavalry, avoid strength, get behind the enemy to disrupt command and communication.

For the Marne Corps tanks have been tactical support for the Infantry.

Hard point?

Call a tank up to bust the bunker.

Guess they got other stuff now between air, laser directed arty, and HIMARs.
 
Many millions of AP 06 did not use Tungsten, it was a .227 oil quenched drill rod that weighted 63 grs as inserted.

Im unsure what they are made of.

Im sure whatever it is in California every bullet has a little sticker on it saying this will give you extreme penetration AND CANCER.
 
I referred this thread to a a guy who was a 13A until last week. We will get his take.
 
Marines will get the ports.

HIMARs will do the jobs of tanks......although I'm not sure how they are camouflaging them to avoid the drone threat other than through being deadly from the rear.

Hopefully Army still uses its tanks as Cavalry, avoid strength, get behind the enemy to disrupt command and communication.

For the Marne Corps tanks have been tactical support for the Infantry.

Hard point?

Call a tank up to bust the bunker.

Guess they got other stuff now between air, laser directed arty, and HIMARs.

HIMARS cannot do the job of tanks. It can break up a massed formation using DPICM, PFF or SFW ammunition (we only own one of those three rounds; the Germans are working on SFWs for MLRS) but it can't engage in more direct support of the infantry when engaged by armor.

Why do tanks mass in formation? To fight other tanks, or to crush infantry.

As the English proved with their longbows in 1415, once you are in range of the enemy you need to close the distance and fight from close range.

As Pape wrote in Bombing to Win an enemy that faces an air (and by extension artillery) threat can conceal themselves. Putting troops on the ground forces them to mass and makes them vulnerable to combined arms.

The Marines are tailoring themselves to a specific fight in specific geography. We will see how that works out. If they have to fight a combined arms formation... don't have high expectations.
 
HIMARS cannot do the job of tanks. It can break up a massed formation using DPICM, PFF or SFW ammunition (we only own one of those three rounds; the Germans are working on SFWs for MLRS) but it can't engage in more direct support of the infantry when engaged by armor.

Why do tanks mass in formation? To fight other tanks, or to crush infantry.

As the English proved with their longbows in 1415, once you are in range of the enemy you need to close the distance and fight from close range.

As Pape wrote in Bombing to Win an enemy that faces an air (and by extension artillery) threat can conceal themselves. Putting troops on the ground forces them to mass and makes them vulnerable to combined arms.

The Marines are tailoring themselves to a specific fight in specific geography. We will see how that works out. If they have to fight a combined arms formation... don't have high expectations.

Well that seems to be the path USMC is on.

If ROE are not retarded use air and arty.

War is not the time to worry about collateral damage.

Tanks should be for disrupting the rear. Envelope and cause chaos.
 
Well that seems to be the path USMC is on.

If ROE are not retarded use air and arty.

War is not the time to worry about collateral damage.

Tanks should be for disrupting the rear. Envelope and cause chaos.

I'm not talking about ROE here. I'm talking about what is technologically possible.

Tanks are not for disrupting the rear. Tanks are for absolutely crushing your enemy and breaking through his line. Not so much so you can "disrupt" anything as destroy it.
 
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I'm not talking about ROE here. I'm talking about what is technologically possible.

Tanks are not for disrupting the rear. Tanks are for absolutely crushing your enemy and breaking through his line. Not so much so you can "disrupt" anything as destroy it.

Okay.
 
After the EMP duel you'll see everyone rolling out their secret EMP hardened weapons designed to be directly controlled by humans.
I'm fairly sure plenty are working on plans and building stuff that will work and communicate during active EMP events.

As everyone races to replace all their war stuff with drones and remote control which work really good when you are a super power fighting against sand dwellers, I'm fairly sure the top level players are working on their EMP weapons, hacking weapons and also how to counter what the other side does in the same manner.


This right here...

It is one thing to carry out a multinational police chase against third world goat fuckers who want to mass murder innocent civilians in order to win 72 virgins upon entering the afterlife... It is a whole another thing when it comes to a conventional war between near-peers and equals.

Every military conflict in history is all about ONE thing. And that is one-upsmanship over your enemy. Each side is always going to be seeking to dominate their foe technologically and that is by innovation, research, and production on scales that approach a frenzy. This is also the reason why every major military conflict has also seen rapid developments in science and technology. World War II, despite it's appalling devastation, was responsible for pushing the human race into the Space Age and also seen the development of the first electronic computers. The world entered this conflict still heavily under the influence of Victorian era mannerisms and social structures, and emerged in just 6 years with jet aircraft, rocket planes that cruise the edge of space, and the controlled release of atomic energy. Look at the Internet... One of the most important channels of global communication today. It was first developed at the height of Cold War hostilities in order for military leaders stationed across long distances to be able to receive real time information and orders in case of a sudden nuclear attack.

One thing that this current global outbreak of SARS-COV-2, no matter WHAT origins it has, whether accidental, natural, or done with deliberate malice, must remind all of us, is that warfare is NOT limited to firearms, bombs, and aircraft. If there is a way to neutralize an enemy and even inflict mass carnage upon the population of an enemy country or planet, there WILL be people and agencies that will exploit it to the MAXIMUM. Do not think for a second that multiple high security laboratories all over the world are not looking for a way to weaponize Ebola, or splice the genetic material of a similar killer virus into vectors that spread with far more ease. Nanotechnology, another branch of cutting edge research with extreme future potential, is yet another thing that can prove to be both the saviors and annihilators of mankind. If a viral epidemic is bad enough, imagine the release of programmed nannites that can latch onto specific gene sequences of their creators' choosing and kill their targets via an Ebola-like "grey-out". The possibilities are endless, and that is one aspect of human nature and the nature of warfare that the greatest science fiction writers across the ages have perfected and understood to a T. Military sci-fi has ALWAYS seen the gradual and eventual development of a superweapon of mass annihilation, whether biological or nuclear, and behind the fearsome technology is always a political or military entity seeking to subdue or eradicate their foes, at any cost. It will be stupid beyond measure to think that wars in the present or the future between near peers will abide by ROE or some other ink-and-paper code of chivalry. Everybody is seeking to work smarter and achieve more with less effort, rather than the other way around. Medieval duels have always been "sanctioned", with the presence of multiple witnesses, clergy, judges, and even government officials, just in case a party who is about to lose a fight calls in a sharpshooter hidden in a nearby thicket to kill his opponent with an arrow through the head...
 
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I made some steel targets of various alloys and used them from 100 yards and further. Against regular A36 mild steel with the 5.56 against the steel plates the higher velocity the more dramatic the penetration. This was so regardless of ball or green tip etc. Against AR500 (retired loader bucket steel) ball would just disintegrate on contact. Green tip would dent the steel but otherwise would turn to powder. Switched to my Swift 40 grain 4300fps ball. AR500 made into Swiss cheese at 100yds. My take on it is velocity and small penetrator area can punch through even with ordinary ball. My 2 cents.
 
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Firearms killed heavy cavalry for centuries until firearms reached their peak design in the machine gun and heavy cavalry came back in the form of tanks.

USMC is abandoning all tanks after watching Turkey detect and smoke Syrian armor at will with drones.

The next war will commence after the EMP duel.
it's not just syrian armor that's vulnerable.



if you can tolerate all the allahakbaring going on.
 
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Saudis are averaging one tank damaged beyond repair monthly. Those are monkey model tanks with Saudi crews. That’s not the end of the tank.
 
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There was a M1 Abrams brought back to AAD. It had a very small 22-25 cal hole threw the turret, just above the ring. AFAIK no one to this day still knows what cause it. This was during Jr's war to make daddy (an Chaney) happy.

Saddam Hussein GIF 2015 - www.gifsec.com | Funny GIFS ...
 
if every tank and aircraft that America sent to the Saudis had the engine ignition button replaced with an instant self destruct activator, I wouldn't complain.

Nah bro, random timer. Don’t want them to figure out what’s causing it...so we can make more money selling to them.
 
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