i also heard rumors or perhaps speculation that it was a bird strike, perhaps both engines.
Boeing down in India
- Thread starter Mr.BR
- Start date
The mini propeller thing. You mean the Ram air turbine. Ain’t no way you could tell that from this picture. Way to grainy
Ahh yes, I better yield to the senior armchair aviation expert.
I’m looking at the same shit that you and everyone else is and that’s my observations, you don’t know anything that anyone else armchairing does.
Did you realize there are several active and prior captains of these planes in these threads?
I can’t tell a thing about flaps…
But sure looks like it didn’t have enough power.
As if the engines were not putting out thrust?
But not being a pilot or even playing one on TV, that was my first impression from the initial video and before reading any comments.
I thought those things had more than enough thrust to take off and Climb almost no matter what?
Is it possible to have both engines running out of power or below performance??? Or a computer trying to do one thing while the pilot was trying to do another??
Again, just impression.
Sirhr
But sure looks like it didn’t have enough power.
As if the engines were not putting out thrust?
But not being a pilot or even playing one on TV, that was my first impression from the initial video and before reading any comments.
I thought those things had more than enough thrust to take off and Climb almost no matter what?
Is it possible to have both engines running out of power or below performance??? Or a computer trying to do one thing while the pilot was trying to do another??
Again, just impression.
Sirhr
Yep, some people are/have been aircraft pilots and some…well, seem to ride bicycles.
I will concede based on the video that nodopes posted it very well could have had a rat deployed. Still hard to see it but the audio does support it. Now let’s think about what the conditions are required to cause automatic deployment and engagement of the RAT.
Drawing a parallel from my armchair airplane, the technical answer is it deploys when power is lost to both AC buses and airspeed is above 100 knots. It then provides emergency electrical and hydraulic power sufficient to control the airplane and land safely. ChatGPT says they deploy when power from the engines is lost and that’s kind of true but not really. The engines can be producing 100% thrust and it could still deploy because the AC buses aren’t being powered.
It is an interesting theory if it did deploy and why. But I’m still firmly in the speculation camp right now of a flap issue whether mechanical or human. Dual engine failure is highly unlikely. My only other thought is the pitot static system got mucked up and the had bad airspeed indications.
They will get a preliminary finding pretty quick on this. There are a lot of these operating and if there is a design flaw they will be forced to make it public
Didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers red, I was just bustin your chops about the spinny thing. I thought it was funny.
Heard another claim the flight prior the A/C inside the aircraft was kicking on and off. Same guy who made the claim, showed a video and multiple people were fanning them selves to stay cool on the prior flight.
The 787 uses and electric powered compressor not bleed air. Ac bus issue sounds plausible.
The 787 uses and electric powered compressor not bleed air. Ac bus issue sounds plausible.
Found this in the FCOM from Boeing on 787
A bit different than my plane. But the 787 is much newer tech so that checks.
The last condition is interesting.
A bit different than my plane. But the 787 is much newer tech so that checks.
The last condition is interesting.
I'm just going to throw this out there... What we need is 'Common Sense' gravity laws. Just sayin
That qualif-phobic.I'm just going to throw this out there... What we need is 'Common Sense' gravity laws. Just sayin
The likelihood of all four EMPs (without full AC power loss) is damn near impossible.
The loss of all hydraulic systems in general is extremely unlikely.
If the RAT did auto dual engine failure is the most likely cause.
Air India reportedly use GE engines, so extremely bad luck with Trent 1000s isn’t the cause.
Don't ever listen to any fucking Youtuber who talks to a camera wearing their uniform...that shit is beyond cringe. Be very suspect of any fucking Youtuber who claims to be a pilot in civilian clothes (cough Gryder cough).
Its possible they were Flaps 5 for takeoff, very hard to tell. They damn sure rotated at the very end of the runway with all the dust swirling around.
I don't fly a 787 so no idea if the RAT auto-deploys...but that'd be a loss of all power situation. I can only think of three reasons all engines flame out just after rotation - lack of fuel, fuel contamination, or birds.
The way 787s are datalinked, I bet Boeing, GE and Air India had a pretty good idea what happened within minutes.
Barring more information, put me in the "incorrect takeoff weight and/or flex thrust" or "accidentally went flaps up not gear up" camp.
Its possible they were Flaps 5 for takeoff, very hard to tell. They damn sure rotated at the very end of the runway with all the dust swirling around.
I don't fly a 787 so no idea if the RAT auto-deploys...but that'd be a loss of all power situation. I can only think of three reasons all engines flame out just after rotation - lack of fuel, fuel contamination, or birds.
The way 787s are datalinked, I bet Boeing, GE and Air India had a pretty good idea what happened within minutes.
Barring more information, put me in the "incorrect takeoff weight and/or flex thrust" or "accidentally went flaps up not gear up" camp.
Hopefully, the FDR will tell us if the flaps were raised instead of the gear, first. But it seems logical. Still, I think it would have been a really piss poor pilot to mistake the gear for flaps levers, considering how they're designed and where they're located. I do hope they go investigate the flight crew's backgrounds to eliminate or confirm any terrorist connections. Shades of MH370 come to mind,
Yep.
Seems taking off in the wrong flap setting is very unlikely as the instruments would have been screaming at them.
Also this captin states setting 5. Which is full slats and 5 degrees flaps. Thats would be impossible to see from the 2 videos of the incident.
Never underestimate the stupidity of people from Southwest Asia.
They lie on their resumes, they lie in the logbooks and lying is a way of life.
I trained a few of them in the past and have worked with them and vowed to NEVER ride on an aircraft operated by folks from that part of the world.
About 10 yrs ago or so, there was a big shakeup in the Indian airline industry. Many of them were found to be falsifying their logbooks and experience. Some lost jobs and some lost license. My response was, yeah that sounds about right.
I don't have time on the 78 but I have plenty of time on the 777 and I understand the systems are very similar.
When throttles were pushed up, they would definitely get a config warning. Flap/slat position is one of the things it looks at.
In the event the flaps were retracted instead of the gear, they would get a low energy warning, that would cause the slats to extend or stay extend.
If they were slow they would hit Alpha floor before reaching an aerodynamic stall.
For those non-aviators, Alpha floor is basically full power or TOGA.
The 777 has thrust asymmetric compensation (TAC) for a engine loss and you still need to put in rudder.
I understand the 78 doesn't need rudder with its TAC - not sure about that though.
Assuming the crew did not fuck up - and since it is India, I am more inclined to believe that they did,
It would most likely be some sort of fuel contamination or starvation.
We will know in about 12-24 months.
On the 777 (and 778 if you know) , are leading and trailing flaps "separate" levers/selections? That is, if you set flaps 5 or whatever, will the leading flaps trigger automatically or are there separate handles for lead flaps? I know where the flaps levers are and what they look like. But I had always thought that lead flaps don't trigger unless you go down to flaps 15 or something. If you say it's 5, I respect that. I guess a lot of times when initiating a lnding, they go to Flaps 1 or below 5 for a bit of time.
On the 777, there is only one device that controls both of the flaps and slats. The Flap handle.
When Flaps 1 is selected, you get slats extended to the mid position and no flaps.
When Flaps 5 is selected, you get slats to the mid position and 5 degree of flap.
When Flaps 25 or 30 is selected, you get full slat extension and flaps 25 or 30.
I assume the 78 works they same way.
around 6:50 min is discusses the sound the RAT makes and compare the cell video of the incident to another 787 landing with the rat deployed.
