Boeing down in India

#251
Starting to look like a suicide. It's happened before....

It could only happen intentionally:

"Any movement of these switches in flight would be intentional—physically lifting and sliding them—not something that could occur inadvertently."

Link below:

airlive.net

Preliminary report reveals both engine fuel cutoff switches in AI171 cockpit transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF

Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau of India released preliminary report for flight AI171 which crashed near Ahmedabad Airport.
airlive.net airlive.net
 
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#253
IMG_6164.jpeg



WHAAAAT?!?!? 10-14 seconds?? That’s an eternity in this situation. Had that been me, it would not have taken more than 10-14 milliseconds to flip them back on, followed by me grabbing the crash ax and putting the pointed end through the PNF’s forehead 10-14 milliseconds later cause who knows what he would do next. That’s nuts.
 
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#259
sirhrmechanic said:
No idea the validity of this but it fits with a few posts above.

Could a software bug or error have done this? A virus? A sensor failure?

Seems like fuel feed cutoffs are the sort of thing that should be controlled by a real live toggle switch. With a cover on it. And a really strong spring to keep it from moving by itself?
Click to expand...
I get what you're asking, but if the Pilot Flying PHYSICALLY moved them back to the Run position mere seconds before the crash, that would indicate to me that they HAD to have been PHYSICALLY moved to the Cutoff position prior to that correction. In other words, if it were a software bug that cut off the fuel, the switches would have still been in the Run position, because they can only be manually moved over the stops. So no, not a software bug or virus. Also, there is not a more strategic time for this to have occurred that would have been more devastating. It happened at the absolute most critical time for it not to be recoverable. A minute earlier - time to abort. A minute later - enough altitude for a re-light to have saved it.

I'm just a lowly SEL Private pilot, but it reminds me of the day I once had not one, but TWO engine "failures" in the same day in the same plane at about the same time in the takeoff sequence (about treetop level). It's a long story, but I'm very glad that both times I had enough runway left ahead of me to just land straight ahead.
 
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#260
I've been flying professionally for 25 years and on one Boeing or another for 20 of those years. If what they are saying is true, one of the two guys in that cockpit caused that crash. There is absolutely no way those switches moved to cutoff without direct action. If the 787 is like all other Boeings (that's one of two currently in operation that I haven't flown, but highly doubt it's any different) then the only legitimate scenario to move to cutoff then start is in the event of a dual engine failure while attempting to relight the engines. The full report will be interesting.
 
#261
Never been in a 78 flight deck, and have no clue how Air India address’s augmented crew ops. Did that flight have other crew members on the flight deck? I speculate because a company I flew 76’s for, required all operating crew to be in the flight deck for TO and LD, I sat a few flights as augmented crew in the middle JS. Thinking back to the mushroom guy pulling the T handles a few years ago, I’m wondering if it wasn’t the PF/PM, who else had access up there?

We have the exact switch’s on the newer 73’s I currently drive. Personally I prefer the older start levers, but the switch’s have been just as reliable. I can confirm moving those switches is 100% a human act. Cannot bump them to the cutoff position.

Regardless of who moved the start switches, fuck that guy.
 
#262
Between the CVR, FDR, and physical wreckage they will know exactly what happened.
If they were moved to cutoff due to some sort of failure it will be obvious to the investigators. Or if it was indeed sabotage, or just human error.

Those switches are 100% manual only.
 
#263
beetroot said:
Between the CVR, FDR, and physical wreckage they will know exactly what happened.
If they were moved to cutoff due to some sort of failure it will be obvious to the investigators. Or if it was indeed sabotage, or just human error.

Those switches are 100% manual only.
Click to expand...
They are, but my airline had one occurrence of switches "moving" without human touch. We use a TOLD card on a pad for take off and landing data. Someone placed the pad behind the thrust levers and resting on the switches. At TOD, the thrust levers retarded, and the pressure of the pad being moved by the levers, jumped the switches over the stop, thereby shutting off the fuel. Upon realisation, got both restarted no problem, plenty of height. But to this day, I still cannot work out who the fuck thought putting the pad there even temporarily was a good idea. I've never seen it, or heard of it. I am not in any way suggesting this was involved. Just thought I'd relate a situation that noone ever thought of......
 
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