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Gunsmithing Bolt face erosion?

G and R

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 23, 2008
190
0
Central, OH
I just got this rifle on a trade...6.5-284, Rem 700 LA. The Gentleman I got it from claimed 200-400 rounds. You may have noticed my thread about the gouged stock, this is the same deal. I took the gun apart to clean it and noticed how horrid this bolt face looks! The etching is fairly deep, what do you guys think? I highly doubt these would be machining marks of any kind. It looks like some pretty serious erosion.

DSCF5318.jpg
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Are you refering to the circumfrential groove around the bolt <span style="text-decoration: underline">nose </span> , or the obvious signs of primer leakage on the bolt <span style="text-decoration: underline">face </span> ? Two different things, entirely.

Though the entire front of the bolt tells the whole tale of the 'machinist' and his attention to detail......

I'd put some Dykem on the bolt nose and make sure it's not contacting the bolt nose recess in the back of the barrel.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

I'm referring to both...I'm guessing he was either overzealous with the primer pockets, or he shot some seriously hot loads.

 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Did you get any brass with the gun? I've seen this with 6.5X284's that used Winchester 284 brass or Norma 6.5X284 brass in a chamber done with a reamer based on Lapua 6.5X284 brass. The Lapua case is bigger at the back end than either of the others and it doesn't take much to rattle the primer pockets loose and leak gas with that situation....especially if it's being run with loads for the better Lapua case. -Al

 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Even though the gas cutting on the b.f. looks bad, it really doesn't hurt anything, functionally. One of the reasons I asked about the cases used was because the primer leakage ring is off center from the firing pin hole. 'Course, that's not unusual anyway...and given the way the bolt looks, I can't imagine the firing pin hole has been corrected, given how ragged it looks around the edges.

I'd prep new Lapua cases, check the bolt nose-to-barrel fit and go from there. Due to the length of those 6.5 bullets, it's real easy to get those 6.5X284's overpressured in a hurry.....
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

The "circumfrential groove", as Al so aptly described it, appears to be where the bushing was put in to accept an after market extractor.
You don't even want to see the BF in my VH rifle.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

If it bothers you you can install (or have installed) a bushing in the bolt face. Firing pin dia and hole dia can also be reduced at this time
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

How does it shoot???

Everything will become less irritating if its hammer
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

If you have gas leakage at the primer I wouldn't feel so warm and fuzzy about the Sako extractor. They've been known to release if a case lets go. Getting hit with one can be detrimental to your health.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneeyedmac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have gas leakage at the primer I wouldn't feel so warm and fuzzy about the Sako extractor. They've been known to release if a case lets go. Getting hit with one can be detrimental to your health. </div></div>

Ahh yes, another concern of mine. I haven't shot it yet, I don't see any real advantage of having a sako extractor in this application.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Sako type extractors have been serving Rem shooters for years. I have never seen the results of a blow up when a Sako style extractor injured anyone. I think a lot of the horror stories, that are circulated, are just that, Stories.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

My 260, 7-300wsm and 6XC have the etching marks from primiers leaking gas. The 260 and 7-300wsm have after market PTG bolt bodies and the 6XC is a standard Rem700. I clean and uniform my primer pockets with a carbide White Tail Tool and seat by feel. The only rifle that doesnt have the BF etched is my Stainless Viper thats been 2-6BR's, a 6XC and now a 6Dasher, 4,000 rounds total in the Viper. They all hammer and the loads I shoot were choosen by group size and not velocity.

The ring around your firing pin hole is from gas leaking from the primers. The ring around the bolt nose could be from the smith or it could have come that way from the factory. It dosent look to be a gunsmith mod to me, I can still see the offset notch in the ID of the bolt nose. With the firing pin down (fired position) and bolt closed does it wiggle front to back, if so it's not touching.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocEd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sako type extractors have been serving Rem shooters for years. I have never seen the results of a blow up when a Sako style extractor injured anyone. I think a lot of the horror stories, that are circulated, are just that, Stories. </div></div>

Just because you haven't seen it doesn’t mean it never happened. I have seen Sako style extractors blow out due to poor installation, high pressured loads, and simply having crap in them. So it does happen, but I agree you hear more stories then actually seeing it.

I don't like them for the simple fact it's in a crappy position on the Remington bolt.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

This thread got me to thinking, what if anything are you doing to limit or prevent gas leaking from around the primer. All but one of my rifles are doing this. I looked at several bolts that are here with other rifles. Only one other bolt face isnt eched, it's a magnum bolt face from 7mmRM with over 1,500 rounds down range.

Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Poor brass prep, poorly made brass (a lot more of this then one might think) Shooting brass longer then it should, high pressure or over pressure loads (This happens more then one might think as well, just look at the reloading section and some of the loads being shot).

None of my own rifles exhibit primer bleed by, and some of them are 20 + years old, but then again I don't shoot over pressure or high pressure load, I'm not anal about brass prep, and I don't try to get the last little bit out of my brass either.

I do think some high speed calibers are more subject to it but again I think a lot of it is shooter induced.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

I shoot the loads that give the best accuracy, not velocity. I've shot Nosler Brass in the 260 until recently, switching to RP just a few weeks ago. My 7/300wsm has had nothing but WW brass in it, RL-25 & CCIBR2's. Lapua Brass in my Viper. I spoke to one of the guys I shoot with that shoots a 6.5x284, Lapua brass only in his and nothing excessive as far as pressure.

I've never tried to get the most out of my velocity and loaded for accruacy first and foremost. My 260 is shooting 130 Bergers at 2,940fps in RP hulls and 2,900 in the Nosler hulls, CCIBR2's and H4350.

Just curious as to what others have found.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

William: Barring excessive pressures (whatever that might be), the biggest single thing you can do to minimize gas leakage is to have as much of the case as possible completely in the chamber. That's why the coned bolt actions with a sliding plate extractor (Panda/Kodiak, etc.) work so well. A 700 style setup simply cannot offer this level of control....the pressures get up there, the unsupported back end moves around a bit, the primer pockets get a bit bigger during the high pressure 'peak', gas leaks out, bolt face gets etched. And the primer pockets will still seem tight....'cuz they are....when the case isn't being fired.

The majority of actions out there are limited in how well they support the back end, simply because of their design. With a coned bolt/sliding plate setup and a proper fit between the sized case and the back end of the chamber, case head expansion is at an absolute minimum during firing.

100-300 BR shooters routinely operate in the 75,000+ range, can open the bolt on a fired case with an index finger, and the bolt faces look like new even after many thousands of rounds.

Billy Bob the Neighborhood Pipe Threader can slop together a bunch of crap with a Rent-All reamer, use range pick up brass, size it with a $2 used Lee die set bought from a Mall Ninja convention...and have the primers fall out of factory rounds.

Savvy 'smiths like yourself, DocEd and Randy know how to do stuff the right way, but there's a lot of 'gunsmiths' out there that shouldn't be allowed to thread galvanized pipe.

Not that I have an opinion about such stuff.....
shocked.gif
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

The gentleman who I got the gun from claimed his smith trued the action, to include truing the bolt face. It certainly doesnt look like quality work to me, anybody have an opinion on this?
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Some smiths only cut the bolt face while leaving the bolt nose and lug fronts untouched. As long as the bolt face was cut perpendicular to the bolt body center line its fine. The other cuts are just clearance.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

I hate to name drop on the guy, but I do know who did the work, and I have seen a few people on the hide say good things about him.
 
Re: Bolt face erosion?

Like William said the most important part of the bolt is the back side of the lugs and the face. The bolt face rim and the front of the lugs mean nothing in accuracy, as long as they don't touch the barrel and you have sufficient clearance.

Removing too much metal from the front of the bolt nose rim can cause issues if one uses a factory extractor. I've seen more then one bolt that the nose rim was cut and the factory extractor pulled right out through the front because the metal was made too thin in that area.

The bolt has a Sako extractor and it doesn’t look like a bushing or anything else was put in to close up the factory extractor grove. Some say this is necessary and some say it isn't. I have no opinion other then to say I don't like Sako extractors in Remington’s.

That being said the off center primmer ring in the bolt face could be cause by several things not the fault of the builder even with the firing pin hole in the center.