Gunsmithing Bolt issue?

[crunchy]

Sorry, if this is a long read. Do my best to keep it short.

Rifle has been shooting great. Decided to rebed the recoil lug area. When I removed the action I found I had some epoxy push the clay into the bottom front action screw hole. Discovered this when I went to install the bolt. I gave the bolt a good love tap which freed up any obstruction. Didnt think much of it as the bolt seemed to function fine. I went to chamber a round and it was a no go. Bolt would stop about 1/2 inch short. removed bolt, and took a dental pick getting any epoxy I could find. Spent hours going over it and believe I got it all out. Tried to chamber a round same result. Bolt wont close. I checked the distance to the lands with an OAL gauge and that didnt change at all from prior to the bed job. I can chamber both new piece of brass and also a once fired unsized piece of brass. I seated the bullet to where I know it is .030 off of the lands and still no go. I swabbed out the chamber and took the barrel outside in the sunlight. I can see nothing in the chamber area. Attached is a pic of the bolt face as I am out of ideas. Anything obvious? Bolt functions fine with nothing in the chamber as well as with any piece of brass. Will not chamber a round with a bullet seated.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Bottom action screw hitting?

 

[crunchy]

Bottom action screw hitting?

No, action and bolt wont cycle even out of the stock.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Is the bolt, in the cocked position?

 

[ShtrRdy]

Let's see if I understand the problem. You are unable to chamber a loaded cartridge. The Bolt stops about 1/2" from being able to close. If you use a new piece of brass or a resized piece of brass you can close the Bolt fine.

Does this sound right?

 

[crunchy]

Yes

 

[1J04]

Will it cycle with the bolt stripped?

 

[crunchy]

And roughly 1/2 inch. I can love tap the bolt to get it to close with a loaded round. (no powder just a case and bullet). But getting it to eject takes some EFFORT.

 

[crunchy]

Havent tried to strip the bolt.

 

[1J04]

And the case is fire formed and neck sized or FL sized?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Look at the case an see if it's bulged at the shoulder

 

[crunchy]

Not bulged at the shoulder, and full length sized, and confirmed with shoulder bump gauge. That said, wont chamber a brand new piece of brass that I have been fireforming from the same lot for weeks.

 

[crunchy]

I would add that the few times I got the bolt closed, the case and bullet came out a little scratched up. Just dont get how both a new and fired case can chamber no problem, but a loaded round that is short of the lands will not.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

With the action point up shake it back an forth an see if something is in the lug locking area.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I would add that the few times I got the bolt closed, the case and bullet came out a little scratched up. Just dont get how both a new and fired case can chamber no problem, but a loaded round that is short of the lands will not.

If the run out is that bad it can do that but if it's that bad you will see it by rolling the loaded rd over a piece of glass or smooth table top.

 

[crunchy]

tried everything that I can think of. Small mirror to try and peek behind the lug locking area and see nothing. Chamber looks clean. I could only think maybe something with the bolt from when I first gave it the BEANS to close.

 

[crunchy]

If the run out is that bad it can do that but if it's that bad you will see it by rolling the loaded rd over a piece of glass or smooth table top.

Not runout for certain.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Remove the firing pin assy, or trigger assy an try it again, I've seen triggers cause almost the same thing.

 

[ShtrRdy]

There must be a piece of debris in the chamber area. Have you tried scrubbing the barrel and chamber and then swabbing it dry?

 

[1J04]

This is maddening. I just looked closely at your bolt. Something is eating it. I just pulled half a dozen Remington 700 bolts dated from late 60's to late 90's. None of them show anything like the gouges you have and missing metal. Not certain if related but that ain't good. Was this recently cerakoted?

 

[crunchy]

yes recent cerakote but has worked fine since I got it back. The only thing that changed was the leaking of epoxy into the action. but I got a good look and see nothing in there now.

 

[Codiekfx400]

What about a tight neck scenario. Once the bullet is seated the overall diameter of the neck will get bigger.

 

[crunchy]

What about a tight neck scenario. Once the bullet is seated the overall diameter of the neck will get bigger.

Not sure how that could change at all. Same lot of brass, same die, same lot of bullets.

 

[1J04]

Process of elimination. Everything points to something being in there. Non fire formed and fire formed case works but non fire formed case with bullet don't? That goes against logic. Strip the bolt and just chamber a fire formed case, should have some resistance, then a new case, bolt should drop freely. Then try your dummy round with new case then dummy round with fire formed then check back. But I'm betting obstruction.

 

[Codiekfx400]

Could be epoxy in the neck area.

 

[crunchy]

Could be epoxy in the neck area.

What leaked since was a small amount and had dried. Not possible that it got into the chamber area unless it was dried, and bits of what I cleaned out of the action. Since then I cleaned the chamber twice.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Mic the outside case neck an report back

 

[1J04]

Ok, you said bullet and case is scratched up when you chamber, or attempt to chamber. Pics please, and after micing neck diameter I'd measure case oal, head to mouth, of course no primer in.

 

[crunchy]

Mic the outside case neck an report back

.315-,316 loaded

I seem to remember it being .313-.314 bullets measure .284. Same lot of brass I have been going through to fireform. So maybe a little variation but its coming out of the same box of new norma brass.

 

[crunchy]

new brass is 2.481

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

what is the neck size of new unfired brass you have?

 

[crunchy]

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

was that a single loaded rd? Also, it looks like the neck is rubbing in the throat to me.

 

[crunchy]

Rubbing somewhere. I need to buy a bore scope. Sent an email to my smith who is 2 hrs away. If I get a response I will ship it to him. But i now it will be a month turnaround which I am trying to avoid.

 

[1J04]

Wow. Shoulder shows a burr I'm thinking but neck marks and then the ogive to case mouth has a huge gouge like you're dragging throat and lands. What's other side of case and bullet look like?

 

[crunchy]

Weird. manually feed into the chamber. then run the bolt up behind the round to seat in the chamber. Attempted multiple times so hard to say where its coming from and why just a casing has no issues chambering.

 

[flyer]

Get a felt tip marker and coat everything, then attempt to chamber a round and see where the ink has been removed.

 

[1J04]

Understand well you wanna avoid Smith and down time, I would to. The maddening part is the answer is right in front of us. It worked before and now it don't. So why? How's the case look down by the head? Is this belted mag like 7MM?

 

[1J04]

Get a felt tip marker and coat everything, then attempt to chamber a round and see where the ink has been removed.

Was thinking same but the pic shows obvious scratches and gouging on case and bullet. So we know it's hitting, but why all of a sudden. With the other info I can't let go of some kind of obstruction. But that gouge in the bullet starting from the ogive to the case mouth sez CBTO length issue, no? Grrrr

 

[flyer]

When given the choice between thinking and doing, doing is usually better because it might show you something you were not thinking about.

That's why you coat everything.

Also it's an easy test, no good reason not to, worst case you spend 5-10 minutes and don't learn anything.

 

[AIAW]

Tagging for the outcome. Out of the suggestions already posted I've got nothing unfortunately, and that would have to be one hell of a carbon ring to cause this behavior (if one exists).

 

[1J04]

When given the choice between thinking and doing, doing is usually better because it might show you something you were not thinking about.

That's why you coat everything.

Also it's an easy test, no good reason not to, worst case you spend 5-10 minutes and don't learn anything.

True that, and it's fun. ?

 

[crunchy]

Get a felt tip marker and coat everything, then attempt to chamber a round and see where the ink has been removed.

There is a faint line that I can see where it looks like where the friction starts?? Like roughly 3/8 of an inch which is where the bolt starts to get sticky? Maybe a wood dowel and some extra fine steel wool?? Polish it up.

 

[crunchy]

There is a faint line that I can see where it looks like where the friction starts?? Like roughly 3/8 of an inch which is where the bolt starts to get sticky? Maybe a wood dowel and some extra fine steel wool?? Polish it up.

Ruled this out. As the old brass has the same little ring.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

but what changed to cause that?

 

[crunchy]

Understand well you wanna avoid Smith and down time, I would to. The maddening part is the answer is right in front of us. It worked before and now it don't. So why? How's the case look down by the head? Is this belted mag like 7MM?

yes belted mag 7mm

 

[crunchy]

Was thinking same but the pic shows obvious scratches and gouging on case and bullet. So we know it's hitting, but why all of a sudden. With the other info I can't let go of some kind of obstruction. But that gouge in the bullet starting from the ogive to the case mouth sez CBTO length issue, no? Grrrr

cant be cbto. Measured with OAL gauge many many times and bullet pushes into the lands at the same distance as before this all started. 2.703 with OAL gauge. Also checked shoulders several times with datem gauge, sized, resized, new brass. None of this fixes the problem.

 

[1J04]

yes belted mag 7mm

Ok, stock barrelled action? Had it bedded and cerakoted. Is this a Longrange Hunter or Sendero? I know of 3 LR Hunters in 7MM that had to be sent back for headspace issues. All friends of mine and I handled all 3 rifles last year. One buddy I had to beat bolt open with 2x4 and hammer.

 

[1J04]

cant be cbto. Measured with OAL gauge many many times and bullet pushes into the lands at the same distance as before this all started. 2.703 with OAL gauge. Also checked shoulders several times with datem gauge, sized, resized, new brass. None of this fixes the problem.

This is exactly why I'm thinking obstruction somewhere.

 

[1J04]

Is this a VLD and may I see your calipers with your, probably hornady comparator, on them. 168 VLD best guess.