Gunsmithing Bolt issue?

[1J04]

Reason I ask is because I have 3 7MM's and load for a number of both 7MM's and 300WM's with Berger VLD's. The Hornady Comparartor is to short for many VLD'S so you end up bottoming out and measuring off the meplat instead of what you think is the ogive. I know this for a fact, hence I bought an extension where I'll never have that issue again.
Just another thought at this point.

 

[crunchy]

Ok, stock barrelled action? Had it bedded and cerakoted. Is this a Longrange Hunter or Sendero? I know of 3 LR Hunters in 7MM that had to be sent back for headspace issues. All friends of mine and I handled all 3 rifles last year. One buddy I had to beat bolt open with 2x4 and hammer.

Benchmark barrel, and they trued the action # 5 contour. been shooting awesome only 80-90 rounds down the pipe. So it is nothing they did it was something I did.

 

[crunchy]

Reason I ask is because I have 3 7MM's and load for a number of both 7MM's and 300WM's with Berger VLD's. The Hornady Comparartor is to short for many VLD'S so you end up bottoming out and measuring off the meplat instead of what you think is the ogive. I know this for a fact, hence I bought an extension where I'll never have that issue again.
Just another thought at this point.
View attachment 7054153View attachment 7054154View attachment 7054155

168vlds have always worked in mine. Besides I tried seating the bullets .030 more off the lands with the same results. I could go deeper but I dont believe this is the issue because the last 80-90 rounds after getting my barreled action back have been with the same measurement.

 

[1J04]

168vlds have always worked in mine. Besides I tried seating the bullets .030 more off the lands with the same results. I could go deeper but I dont believe this is the issue because the last 80-90 rounds after getting my barreled action back have been with the same measurement.

Crap! I'm running out of best ideas ever. You gotta helluva mystery going then. Hopefully someone else with a clue will chime in.

 

[crunchy]

This is painful. I was just developing a load and then this. My other gunsmith is very knowledgeable but must be in his late 70s early 80s and I prefer to have benchmark look at it. Just need them to respond to my email from yesterday ASAP lol.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Is this a different lot # of bullets?
You say that the marks are also on the other cases? If so, you have a neck clearance issue.
Have you tried dropping a bullet into a fired but not resized case neck? It should drop right in. If not, it's a clearance issue.
Measure the diameter of some of the bullets and make sure that are .284, not. 2845 or larger. It happens.

If you removed the bedding with a metal pick, you might have scratched the barrel at the edge of the chamber.

Have you measured the base to belt on your unfired vs fired cases?

 

[Rthur]

I hate to be repetitive but you said you had epoxy leak into the front action screw hole?
You can load a loaded round by hand and then can get the bolt to battery?
What release agent did you use?
What bedding compound did you use?

R

 

[crunchy]

I hate to be repetitive but you said you had epoxy leak into the front action screw hole?
You can load a loaded round by hand and then can get the bolt to battery?
What release agent did you use?
What bedding compound did you use?

R

Well tough to say. I push the round into the chamber but doubt it seats because when I go to close the bolt it wont close unless I push REAL hard. Hornady OAL pushes into the chamber and allows me to get the same readings as I did before this mess start. This is why I think it might be something with the bolt...
KIWI neutral wax for relase agent, and marinetex gray for epoxy.

 

[Rthur]

Well tough to say. I push the round into the chamber but doubt it seats because when I go to close the bolt it wont close unless I push REAL hard. Hornady OAL pushes into the chamber and allows me to get the same readings as I did before this mess start. This is why I think it might be something with the bolt...
KIWI neutral wax for relase agent, and marinetex gray for epoxy.

Did you get epoxy in the front action bolt hole?
While this is damned hard to diagnose I'm thinking a "puddle of bedding compound is in the bottom
of the area between the lug embuttments and the face of the barrel tenon/threaded area.
As remingtons has a fair bit of clearance between the bolt body and the bolt raceways.
Bolt is being raised by the "puddle" of bedding compound and being off center in relation
to the case head. This would cause an increased resistance to go to full battery.
Once forced it can/would orient the case off enough to skin the neck area going into the chamber.
Without release agent in the interior I doubt you could remove it with a pic.
This is a SWAG but may head you in the right direction.

R

 

[crunchy]

Did you get epoxy in the front action bolt hole?
While this is damned hard to diagnose I'm thinking a "puddle of bedding compound is in the bottom
of the area between the lug embuttments and the face of the barrel tenon/threaded area.
As remingtons has a fair bit of clearance between the bolt body and the bolt raceways.
Bolt is being raised by the "puddle" of bedding compound and being off center in relation
to the case head. This would cause an increased resistance to go to full battery.
Once forced it can/would orient the case off enough to skin the neck area going into the chamber.
Without release agent in the interior I doubt you could remove it with a pic.
This is a SWAG but may head you in the right direction.

R

Then why can I chamber a fired and brand new casing without a bullet?

 

[Rthur]

Then why can I chamber a fired and brand new casing without a bullet?

A possibility is the bullet only allows a little play in the up and down dimension
because it is in a tight area of the chamber thus not allowing the offset afforded by the new unfired case.
Is it getting tight in the last little bit/half inch?

R

 

[crunchy]

A possibility is the bullet only allows a little play in the up and down dimension
because it is in a tight area of the chamber thus not allowing the offset afforded by the new unfired case.
Is it getting tight in the last little bit/half inch?

R

nope unloaded brass chambers with no problem. Load is very hard to get in, and just as bad to get out.

 

[Rthur]

nope unloaded brass chambers with no problem. Load is very hard to get in, and just as bad to get out.

Sorry, I meant the loaded round.

R

 

[1J04]

I was hoping this was gonna be sorted out TONIGHT.

 

[crunchy]

Yes, I am out of ideas.. If I could get the barrel off it would give me better insight or rule some things out.

 

[woogie_man]

Interested in the findings, as it is a great learning experience....Well except if it is all an elaborate April fools joke

 

[crunchy]

No joke lol. I couldnt come up with a mystery this good if I tried.

 

[1J04]

Interested in the findings, as it is a great learning experience....Well except if it is all an elaborate April fools joke

This is true, and since no hand model jokes from earlier post, I give you this till this gets figured out. Hope it comes off. I gotta go down the corridor. Taking the butt wipe with me....?

 

[antithesis]

I would spend the $25 on a flex bore scope that attaches to your phone so you can look inside the chamber. Plenty to pick from on Amazon. Flashlights and mirrors are never going to give you the correct view. I would also guess the scratches on the case are more from it coming out with a bullet still in it causing it to drag more.

 

[Loonhunter]

I’m totally unqualified here, but, to rule out everything, are the action screws the same length? Maybe one is shorter and they got switched around?

 

[1J04]

I’m totally unqualified here, but, to rule out everything, are the action screws the same length? Maybe one is shorter and they got switched around?

They are on a Remington, which I believe he has, just after market Barrel. Everything worked fine for 80-90 rds, then bedded. After bedding it went poop.

 

[Loonhunter]

They are on a Remington, which I believe he has, just after market Barrel. Everything worked fine for 80-90 rds, then bedded. After bedding it went poop.

Right.
And when he bedded it he took out the action screws.
Maybe put them back in wrong?

 

[Loonhunter]

This is true, and since no hand model jokes from earlier post, I give you this till this gets figured out. Hope it comes off. I gotta go down the corridor. Taking the butt wipe with me....?


View attachment 7054344

From your pic.
Looking forward to short sleeves?

 

[1J04]

From your pic.
Looking forward to short sleeves?

LONG sleeve all year long. I don't go skin to skin on these folks. You already know.

 

[Loonhunter]

We weren’t given a choice. During summer you could only wear long sleeves to court and funerals.

 

[hackamore]

Have you tried removing the bullet from the dummy round that is difficult to chamber and then try to chamber that piece of brass?

 

[crunchy]

They are on a Remington, which I believe he has, just after market Barrel. Everything worked fine for 80-90 rds, then bedded. After bedding it went poop.

I tried with the action/barrel out of the stock, so no on the action screw being the problem.

 

[Loonhunter]

I tried with the action/barrel out of the stock, so no on the action screw being the problem.

Is the ejector button in the bolt face frozen? Maybe a little debris got lodged in it when you first bumped the bolt home.

 

[crunchy]

Is the ejector button in the bolt face frozen? Maybe a little debris got lodged in it when you first bumped the bolt home.

Nope moves freely and recesses below the face of the bolt. I thought maybe something with the ejector but it appears to be in the right place.

 

[Loonhunter]

Nope moves freely and recesses below the face of the bolt. I thought maybe something with the ejector but it appears to be in the right place.

Well then I guess you should do the obvious.
Start running 6.5 Creedmoor thru it.

 

[crunchy]

Well then I guess you should do the obvious.
Start running 6.5 Creedmoor thru it.

Now that is a good one.

 

[Loonhunter]

Now that is a good one.

Pretty sure if you just chamber one 6.5cm round in it that will fix all of your problems. I did with my 300wm and the action ended up blueprinted. Scope zeroed as well.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Beginning to think bedding is just inside the chamber,... what was the out come of marking the rd 100% with a sharpie ?
If bedding is there it would wipe off the case but not mark it to the point of seeing a scratch on bare brass.

 

[remaction]

I may have missed his, but what is your chambers neck dimension? SAAMI or tight necked? My mind went to Mike Cassletons reply about bullet pressure ring diameter. If you opened a new lot of bullets and you had a tight neck chamber you could have been on the edge of too tight originally.

 

[Rthur]

This is true, and since no hand model jokes from earlier post, I give you this till this gets figured out. Hope it comes off. I gotta go down the corridor. Taking the butt wipe with me....?


View attachment 7054344

That friendly hand and that tp might give someone the wrong idea...

R

 

[1J04]

That friendly hand and that tp might give someone the wrong idea...

R

Shoulda stuck with the sock and Kukla, Fran, n Ollie impression......

 

[woogie_man]

This is true, and since no hand model jokes from earlier post, I give you this till this gets figured out. Hope it comes off. I gotta go down the corridor. Taking the butt wipe with me....?


View attachment 7054344

I have seen uglier women...so wouldn't pass that up I guess. Lol



Do you have access to a chamber reamer for the barrel? If so, me personally, would insert it by hand and lightly spin it. See if there are any areas of contact, or see if any debris falls out or anything.

 

[1J04]

I have seen uglier women...so wouldn't pass that up I guess. Lol



Do you have access to a chamber reamer for the barrel? If so, me personally, would insert it by hand and lightly spin it. See if there are any areas of contact, or see if any debris falls out or anything.

Don't make it weird Brother.

 

[Ozarkcop]

Sounds like a neck or shoulder issue, but you might check the extractor/ ejector plunger and make sure it is free

 

[db@100]

You have the BTCO that you used before. Use the tool again and see how much change you have. That should tell you about where the obstruction is. At least give you a place to look.

 

[Mike Casselton]

These lines and the scratching in between show that the case neck is rubbing on the chamber neck.

Also, lighten up on the heavy outside chamfer, it's not necessary.

 

[db@100]

Had he been new to reloading, he might have mistakenly forced to wrong bullet into the case. Maybe he got some bed bullets. I would try a new , factory round and see if that will chamber.
He already said that he checked and nothing is lodged inside. I don't know, could be something as small as a brush bristle.

 

[bax]

The bolt closes with nothing in the chamber, therefore the bolt is not hitting the action screw. It it was, there should be scratches on the bottom front edge of the bolt, not in the picture.

The bolt closes with an empty case. A sized case fits all the way into the chamber - presumably without catching or dragging so a sized neck OD is fine, the shoulder is fine, the body is fine, and the belt is fine.

The bolt doesn't close with a seated bullet. Either the bullet is hitting something or the bullet expanded the neck too much and the neck of the round won't fit into the chamber.

Measure the neck on a fired round that fits into the chamber - no seated bullet. If fired round (no bullet) neck OD is smaller than the seated round neck OD then those bullets won't work with that brass. If the fired round (no bullet) neck OD is equal or larger then the seated round neck OD then the brass will fit but bullet is hitting something.

We are talking about half an inch, not thousands. However, the neck of a 7mm mag is only .272 long so if the neck is too large the bolt should stop .272 (roughly a quarter inch) from closing, not a half an inch.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Pull the bullet from that test case you posted pics of. Don't do anything else to it.

Try and chamber it and let us know what happened.
If it goes right in, then the issue is neck clearance as shown in your photos.
If it doesn't chamber, maybe the case has been sized too much and the body diameter is too large.

Just do one thing at a time to eliminate the problem.

 

[crunchy]

Mini update. Called Benchmark barrels. Great bunch of guys. I shipped it to them today. Praying they can look at it in the next week or two.

Just to repeat. I have been shooting from the same lot of 200 pieces of new Norma brass. Same goes for the bullets. Got about 90 rounds through the new barrel without a hickup. Confident it is something I did during the bed job. I went as far as seating the bullet to 2.505 with same results of the bolt not closing since I know the lands are at 2.703. For those that think it is something in the chamber. How can I use my Hornady OAL guage, and push the bullet into the lands getting the same reading of 2.703 which is the same reading I got before the epoxy issue.

 

[CShooter92]

I've been following this thread for the last couple days and am stumped too. Very interested to see how this works out.

 

[bax]

Mini update. Called Benchmark barrels. Great bunch of guys. I shipped it to them today. Praying they can look at it in the next week or two.

Just to repeat. I have been shooting from the same lot of 200 pieces of new Norma brass. Same goes for the bullets. Got about 90 rounds through the new barrel without a hickup. Confident it is something I did during the bed job. I went as far as seating the bullet to 2.505 with same results of the bolt not closing since I know the lands are at 2.703. For those that think it is something in the chamber. How can I use my Hornady OAL guage, and push the bullet into the lands getting the same reading of 2.703 which is the same reading I got before the epoxy issue.

I can't wait to hear what this is. I would have lifted the receiver out of the stock, cycled the action, then pulled the barrel and looked around - something has to be hitting something else somewhere or the bolt would close. Right now it seems that we have asked every germane question and the answers prove that this cannot be happening. I suspect that one of the answers is not exactly right. I guess we will see.

 

[crunchy]

Verdict is in. First I cannot say enough about the Benchmark Barrel guys. I shipped my barreled action yesterday, followed by an email and phone call so they knew it was coming. They got right on it today!

They had the same issues I did. Scoped the action and barrel and found nothing obvious. Thought maybe it was just a brass issue, as they could get factory ammo to function fine with a bullet seated, but coldnt get the dummy round I sent them to work. They pulled the bullet out of the dummy round I sent them, resized the brass, seated the bullet and it worked fine. Appears the issue is with my seating die, and possibly I had it screwed down too far. That something in my die is making contact with the mouth of the case. The result of this is the neck is growing from 313 which is normal to 318. I also noticed this change when I was trouble shooting this, but could not figure out the cause.

I guess it was easy for me to focus on the obvious epoxy issue, and not something so basic as I could have screwed in my seating die too far. Or trouble shoot what was causing the neck of the brass to change in diameter. I keep a log of this data, just didnt know it could have been the die to cause this change. I run the ram up, screw in the die until it makes contact, and then back it off a 1/4 turn. Maybe I turned it the wrong direction? I will be 100% convinced when I get my girl back.



Lastly, they didnt charge me a thing. I just paid for shipping. Highly recommend the Benchmark guys. That is customer service!

 

[Sheldon N]

What about a tight neck scenario. Once the bullet is seated the overall diameter of the neck will get bigger.

Mic the outside case neck an report back

it looks like the neck is rubbing in the throat to me.

And Gunfighter gets the prize for the closest answer! Codiekfx400 gets solid second place, plus bonus point for being first to mention neck clearance.


I was thinking epoxy too... no points for me.

 

[crunchy]

Yeah, I did mic it, and noticed the difference but in my head, I thought the number was so small that it couldnt have been it. were talking the diff from .313 to 318ish!!! Lesson learned on what appears to be a serious rookie move on my part. Looks like I need to pull some bullets, resize some brass, etc to the 20 or so rounds I had on stanby for my next shoot.

Thanks for all the ideas, and prizes to those that nailed it, or were on the right track.