Gunsmithing Bolt won't close on factory ammo

[Estes640]

Alright guys, I need some help. I just picked up a custom barreled action second hand from a gentleman on accurateshooter.com. The rifle is a 6.5 creedmoor built on a trued Rem 700 action and a bartlein barrel.

The issue is that the bolt will not close on some of the factory Hornady 140 eldm's. I have not yet tried any other brand but will this evening just to function check. The bullets come out with rub marks/striations when I pull them back out of the chamber since they won't close.

has anyone experienced any issue similar to this? The rifle has only 132rds on it now.

Ryan

***Update***
So I got some inert loaded rounds from the previous owner while my dies and oal gauge are on their way. Those rounds would not seat as well. After some further investigation, it looks like there may be a burr/excess material on the lip of the throat. It would explain the striations on the bullet that are perpendicular to the bore axis. Any suggestions as to the removal of said material or burr?

Ryan

 

[GIXXER2000]

Sound like chamber has issues if it wont close on factory ammo. Do you have access to GO/NO GO gauges?? I think it may be the safe choice and to a trusted local gun smith and have him check it out

 

[Estes640]

That's what I am afraid of. Unfortunately I just moved to Jacksonville so I do not have a gunsmith in the area, nor am I familiar with the area. Any recommendations from anyone?

 

[birddogsx3]

Could be head space but more than likely it is not throated for the long 140gr bullets. If the pills have rifling marks they are being jammed. It you got it off accurate shooter as a custom I would guess it has a tight chamber and specific throat for a designated hand loaded round. Meaning it was not built for factory ammo. Check with the seller about reamer specs.

 

[birddogsx3]

If it does have a short throat you can always have a smith run a throating reamer in it to fit your needs.

 

[birddogsx3]

Try some 120 or 130 class pills see if you can chamber them.

 

[Estes640]

I'll have to check, but I believe the gentleman ran 142 smks mostly, so I would be hard pressed to believe not being throated for long bullets. But thanks for all the responses so far! Keep the suggestions coming. Before I do anything, I'm going to run some American eagle and Winchester ammo through it tonight when I get home to see if it may. Be a Hornady ammo issue

 

[chipsfan]

Can you close the bolt on an empty case? I would guess freebore/throat issue.

 

[Estes640]

Can you close the bolt on an empty case? I would guess freebore/throat issue.

Fired or new?

 

[GH41]

Dumb question for the OP... Have you thought about calling the guy you bought it from and asking him what he set it up to shoot?? Sounds to me like the OP only has access to factory ammunition. He may also want to ask the seller why he sold it? 132 Rounds??? There is probably a lot more to this story than we are being told.

 

[Estes640]

It was a trade so the reason for trading didn't concern me. I have already sent an email to the gentleman I bought it from so I should hear back from him soon. He sent me several targets with some great groups. As well he also just went out right before shipping and shot a great .25" group.

i am no set up for reloading 6.5 creed yet, I just need to get a set of dies. Looks like I may need to do that sooner rather than later. Full length or neck size?

 

[Estes640]

I also went to go test chambering a fired empty case, and I can.

It did take a little pressure though. It also would not close on 140gr Winchester either.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I also went to go test chambering a fired empty case, and I can.

OK, so far, it doesn't look like you have a headspace problem ("headspace" only considers the the brass dimensions and not the bullet). Now, it could be that your loaded ammo is too long (OAL), it's too wide (neck diameter), or the brass is too long (except that you chambered empty brass successfully). E-mail the guy and have him send you his pet recipe and ship you a couple of dummy rounds, complete with a couple of properly seated (correct OAL) bullets as well as a couple of pieces of empty, but prepped brass that chambers properly. If he has a print for the reamer, have him send that too. There is critical information on the print (if the print exists). Keep the rounds he sends you as "golden" samples and only use them to measure from. Don't molest them by trying to modify them or, to reload them. He should be able to tell you; primer, powder, powder weight, bullet and OAL (O-H is better, but if he can tell you that, he needs to tell you what comparator he was using.

If he built/had this built as a custom chambering and the reamer is a custom, then I would suggest neck sizing only. If he built it/had it chambered with a "stock" "SAAMI" reamer, then probably Full Length dies are the way to go.

If you don't already have an OAL gauge, here's is the Hornady version of the Stoney Point Original. If you are not familiar with these measurements and are interested in going down this path, I will be happy to help, just PM me.

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/57...WJh9z3qlr8i4t-XOVbll6AyN7QCiKjZPPoaAqX48P8HAQ

The most critical aspects are the chamber (reamer) neck diameter and the chamber (reamer) neck length. If the neck diameter of the chamber is less than the loaded round diameter, you won't be able to chamber the round. OK, it won't kill you. If OTOH, the neck area of the chamber is too short for the round that you are trying to load, you could end up semi-successfully chambering (by pounding on the bolt) a round and crimping the neck, causing dangerously high pressures upon cartridge ignition. It really is critically important to know all dimensions before slamming the bolt on a custom chamber. Please be safe....Any Q's, just ask.

 

[Estes640]

Thanks for the info threadcutter! I will get with the previous owner on those items. I did find out that the reamer was a Dave Kidd reamer. I also tried some more Winchester factory, and no bueno on that as well.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Hi Estes,

Actually, it's " Dave Kiff" of Pacific Tool & Gauge, of White City (Medford) Oregon. If the previous owner can give you the details of the reamer, PTG should be able to email you the pdf of the reamer drawing, showing all dimensions. That's a great starting point and I'd review the dwg before I started lighting off rounds.

 

[Estes640]

Got the PDF of the reamer last night, and nothing looks different from headspace dimensions. I measured some fired brass, and the brass measures .294". Took the calipers to the still loaded factory rounds that wouldn't chamber and they are .290-.291". So as far as neck and headspace are concerned I don't see an issue.

The reamer specs read out .296" at the tip of the neck and .297" at the base of the neck.

any ideas?

 

[birddogsx3]

The case is not the issue if you have striations on the bullets they are being jammed it is a OAL problem either the throat is to short for the ELD's or they are loaded out to long. In your original post you stated some of them would not chamber. So some of the ELD's will chamber without issue?

 

[Estes640]

Yes sir that is correct. I shot 7 rounds before I had an issue, than 2 in a row so I quit. I measured the two that had not been able to be fired and they both measured 2.805"

 

[ZenBiker990]

If it does have a short throat you can always have a smith run a throating reamer in it to fit your needs.

Good info here. As mentioned, it doesn't sound like a chambering issue, More like a very simple bullet seating issue. Brings into question 2 variables: 1) Cartridge OAL, or "COAL" (overall length of cartridge, case head to bullet tip, and is primarily related to fitting a cartridge in a magazine, vs 2) OAL from case head to the ogive of the bullet and that relationship to the throat length of your chamber. Ideally, the ogive (point on the bullet that contacts the lands of the rifling of the barrel) of your loaded bullet should be .002-.010" from the lands of the barrel at the end of your chamber. To figure out this relationship in your particular rifle, measure the chamber OAL with an OAL gauge as previous responders mention. Then measure the cartridge base to ogive length of your ammo with a similar gauge. The answer to your problem may be as simple as using a match grade Micrometer Seating Die (Hornady is pretty good; Redding and Forster are examples of very good dies) to merely seat the bullet deeper in the case. For instance, if your chamber OAL is 2.250" but the ammo ogive OAL is 2.260", merely seat the bullets .012-.020" deeper and go shoot. This is a common practice with factory ammo and may very quickly and accurately solve your problem. If the previous owner was shooting handloaded 140-ish Sierras in this rig, I'm pretty sure you can reseat factory Hornady 140s without a problem. Be aware that seating the bullet deeper will raise chamber pressures, but if it is within these parameters it should not be an issue. And FWIW, I like full length dies, match grade, every loading. Even if you decide to neck size, you'll need to full length resize every 4-5 reloads. Good luck, man, let us know how it works out!

 

[birddogsx3]

Yes this ^^^^^^

 

[Estes640]

OP updated

 

[Yoteslayer50]

You said it looked like there was a Burr In the throat. Does it look like it could be some copper from the bullet or does it look like steel have you tried using a tight fitting bore brush see if that will get it out. Maybe try some J B bore bright good luck let us know what you you figure out

 

[LRI]

On a guess...

You mentioned "striations." Does it appear that the bullet is engaging the lands/grooves along the entire length of the bullet's bearing surface? As in from the ogive to very close to the neck? Faint ghosting or witness marks that have a slightly helical appearance?

If so:

My guess is the reamer that chambered the gun has a worn throat/freebore portion on the tool. I know this because I've had to deal with it myself. The popularity of the 6.5CM means smiths are hanging lots of them. With that comes accelerated tool wear. Wear you can't/won't see with the naked eye unfortunately.

Try this:

Run a patch down the bore. Don't go crazy, just a couple dry patches. Now put a light source at the crown and look down the hole. Right where the lands/grooves begin wobble your head slightly. Does the freebore appear smooth? Can you see trace impressions of the lands continuing back to the neck? If you are describing what I've had to deal with you won't see it. You will however feel/see it with a virgin cartridge. It sounds very, very, similar to what you are describing. If this is indeed the case, then the correct way to resolve it is to have either a different reamer chased into the existing chamber or just squeak it with a throating reamer.

I ran into this early in 2016 when the RPR craze was going totally bat shit crazy. We had a string of barrels that had to come back for the very reason I'm describing. Since then we order our tools 3x at a time and chase every single chamber with a brand new cartridge. Once its chambered, that one goes with the barrel for the test firing. We have a 6.5CM reamer in for resharp at any given moment.

Good luck. If you get stuck, I'd be happy to try and help you out.

C.

 

[Estes640]

Thanks for the response and explanation Chad! It does look like the burr may have been a shaving of some brass or a bullet. I was able to take a couple passes with some dry patches and that knocked most of it out. I retested a couple rounds and was able to chamber them all. I am going to do a full cleaning this evening and go shoot it tomorrow hopefully.

Thanks for all the responses and help!

Ryan

Chad, the striations weren't helical, more just rub marks perpendicular to the bore on one side of the bullet.