Ok I am new to suppressors so why do you need a booster for a 9mm can? Will a pistol function with out it. I was thinking about a Thompson Machine Isis on a glock 34 any thoughts?
Thanks
Buzz
Thanks
Buzz
Suppressors Boosters
- Thread starter jbusby
- Start date
Re: Boosters
There is nothing wrong or right about having a Neilson.
It depends on the design and the materials. The largest quantities of 9mm delivered made to the Army and the Navy had no booster, but weighed 3 ounces. In the presence of weight, a Neilson insures cycling and a reduction in wear to the lock-up points of slide/barrel. Those designs that have static barrels, do not need a Neilson.
There is no boosting involved, rather the process depends on just the opposite, it takes energy and uses it to produce minimal load on the barrel/action. It is a floating of the can for an instance.
Some of the TM machine cans rely on a technique that is less desirable. Which?
There is nothing wrong or right about having a Neilson.
It depends on the design and the materials. The largest quantities of 9mm delivered made to the Army and the Navy had no booster, but weighed 3 ounces. In the presence of weight, a Neilson insures cycling and a reduction in wear to the lock-up points of slide/barrel. Those designs that have static barrels, do not need a Neilson.
There is no boosting involved, rather the process depends on just the opposite, it takes energy and uses it to produce minimal load on the barrel/action. It is a floating of the can for an instance.
Some of the TM machine cans rely on a technique that is less desirable. Which?
Re: Boosters
I had a gem-tech on my glock 23 about 10 years ago and never could get the Nelson device to work 100 percent of the time.
I had a gem-tech on my glock 23 about 10 years ago and never could get the Nelson device to work 100 percent of the time.
Re: Boosters
It is the Isis it is only 6.2 oz so is that weight to much or just right? I dont want to buy something extra that i dont need. So give me an idea if this would work.
It is the Isis it is only 6.2 oz so is that weight to much or just right? I dont want to buy something extra that i dont need. So give me an idea if this would work.
Re: Boosters
Here's the general idea on boosters:
If the host firearm uses the Browning-style tilting barrel, then generally, a booster is required to help (not ensure) with cycling the firearm with a silencer attached. Consider that you are hanging a weight on the end of a lever (tilting barrel). The firearm's manufacturer did not design it to function with a weight hanging on the end of it.
On hosts with fixed or non-tilting barrels (like Beretta 92 or HK P7), a booster is NOT required. On the Beretta, the barrel does move some, so the can must be light weight, but it does not tilt. On the HK, the barrel does not move so the construction of the can is not that important.
I have an older AAC Phantom can on my Beretta 92 and it works great. The can is light weight and has no booster. I use an EVO-9 with booster on several Glocks and a Ti-RANT .45 with booster on a Glock and an HK USP Tactical.
Here's the general idea on boosters:
If the host firearm uses the Browning-style tilting barrel, then generally, a booster is required to help (not ensure) with cycling the firearm with a silencer attached. Consider that you are hanging a weight on the end of a lever (tilting barrel). The firearm's manufacturer did not design it to function with a weight hanging on the end of it.
On hosts with fixed or non-tilting barrels (like Beretta 92 or HK P7), a booster is NOT required. On the Beretta, the barrel does move some, so the can must be light weight, but it does not tilt. On the HK, the barrel does not move so the construction of the can is not that important.
I have an older AAC Phantom can on my Beretta 92 and it works great. The can is light weight and has no booster. I use an EVO-9 with booster on several Glocks and a Ti-RANT .45 with booster on a Glock and an HK USP Tactical.
Re: Boosters
bryant, I would not approach it like that. You are not buying something that you do not need, just the opposite if the design requires it.
A designer, unconcerned with price/cost, has a short but important list of attributes that their can must have. Included would be:
Safe Operation
Proven cycling
Suppression of Sound
Accuracy
Flash
Materials to meet requirements
Weight
Length
Wear on Host
Longevity/duration (value)
some might consider
Full Auto
Ability to swap threads
Repairability
Easy of Cleaning (rimfire, non purging)
Ablative delivery
The Neilson attends to "Proven Cycling" and "Wear on Host." If you had a Colt 9mm Rifle, or say an MP-5, both with static (non moving) barrels, the weapons cycling happens independent of any effect brought on by the suppressor. And there is no host wear as a result. No moving parts. Some pistol barrels are fixed as well.
Now on a Glock, where the barrel moves, the slide moves, there is an active barrel and the suppressor's weight must be considered. Too Heavy and cycling can be erratic. Each and every handgun is different. What to do? Well, a super light can will not be "felt" on some hosts. These are usually operational cans that are expected to see one clip maximum and need to be small enough for a pocket. Yes, I know TM makes the Poseidon, but I have a problem with aluminum envelopes, wipes that touch the projectile and the idea that ablatives need to be anything other than lithium grease (LG stays put) and needs a proprietary replaceable end cap. Cans like this are not meant for standing int he field and banging through 100 rounds. Can they do it? Yes. Will they be as quiet as a large volume can? No. Different requirement. In any event, no Neilson needed, even on a reciprocating barrel.
http://www.awcsystech.com/products/suppressors/titanium-abraxas-9mm/
Anyway...Neilsons and heavier cans..
One uses a Neilson and "tunes" it by selecting the right spring to insure reliable operation on their particular host. Any fool designer can "over power" the Neilson to slap that slide right back to insure operation. In fact, many pistol cans have Neilsons that do just that, they insure operation by wracking that slide back. Talk to your can maker and see if they actually care what make/model your shooting and if they have tunable Neilsons and a host of spring weights to balance out the system. Interestingly, I only buy Neilson cans from companies that offer a "static end cap" so that I can take off the Neilson, screw on the static end and thread it on a subgun. You want broad wear surfaces on your Neilson. Whereas one may not ever need to clean their centerfire can, always clean and grease your Neilson. A good Neilson is a gem.
One last thing, there are a good number of 9mm makers, since your going to pay $200 and hopefully be able to keep your can for a lifetime of use, take the time to see a broad and deep number of offerings. Definitely Osprey, TiRant, Triad, Hems at a minimum. And get a quality barrel, a cheap barrel on your Glock is a real set back.
bryant, I would not approach it like that. You are not buying something that you do not need, just the opposite if the design requires it.
A designer, unconcerned with price/cost, has a short but important list of attributes that their can must have. Included would be:
Safe Operation
Proven cycling
Suppression of Sound
Accuracy
Flash
Materials to meet requirements
Weight
Length
Wear on Host
Longevity/duration (value)
some might consider
Full Auto
Ability to swap threads
Repairability
Easy of Cleaning (rimfire, non purging)
Ablative delivery
The Neilson attends to "Proven Cycling" and "Wear on Host." If you had a Colt 9mm Rifle, or say an MP-5, both with static (non moving) barrels, the weapons cycling happens independent of any effect brought on by the suppressor. And there is no host wear as a result. No moving parts. Some pistol barrels are fixed as well.
Now on a Glock, where the barrel moves, the slide moves, there is an active barrel and the suppressor's weight must be considered. Too Heavy and cycling can be erratic. Each and every handgun is different. What to do? Well, a super light can will not be "felt" on some hosts. These are usually operational cans that are expected to see one clip maximum and need to be small enough for a pocket. Yes, I know TM makes the Poseidon, but I have a problem with aluminum envelopes, wipes that touch the projectile and the idea that ablatives need to be anything other than lithium grease (LG stays put) and needs a proprietary replaceable end cap. Cans like this are not meant for standing int he field and banging through 100 rounds. Can they do it? Yes. Will they be as quiet as a large volume can? No. Different requirement. In any event, no Neilson needed, even on a reciprocating barrel.
http://www.awcsystech.com/products/suppressors/titanium-abraxas-9mm/
Anyway...Neilsons and heavier cans..
One uses a Neilson and "tunes" it by selecting the right spring to insure reliable operation on their particular host. Any fool designer can "over power" the Neilson to slap that slide right back to insure operation. In fact, many pistol cans have Neilsons that do just that, they insure operation by wracking that slide back. Talk to your can maker and see if they actually care what make/model your shooting and if they have tunable Neilsons and a host of spring weights to balance out the system. Interestingly, I only buy Neilson cans from companies that offer a "static end cap" so that I can take off the Neilson, screw on the static end and thread it on a subgun. You want broad wear surfaces on your Neilson. Whereas one may not ever need to clean their centerfire can, always clean and grease your Neilson. A good Neilson is a gem.
One last thing, there are a good number of 9mm makers, since your going to pay $200 and hopefully be able to keep your can for a lifetime of use, take the time to see a broad and deep number of offerings. Definitely Osprey, TiRant, Triad, Hems at a minimum. And get a quality barrel, a cheap barrel on your Glock is a real set back.
Re: Boosters
Bryant
No it would not function with out the Nelson, but like I said this was 10 years ago,
Bryant
No it would not function with out the Nelson, but like I said this was 10 years ago,
Re: Boosters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you had a Colt 9mm Rifle, or say an MP-5, both with static (non moving) barrels, the weapons cycling happens independent of any effect brought on by the suppressor. And there is no host wear as a result. No moving parts. Some pistol barrels are fixed as well. </div></div>
This is inaccurate in my experience. While the barrels are fixed in the examples above, use of a suppressor DOES affect the weapon's cycling - it increases the cyclic rate and makes the cycling more violent - thus increasing wear.
Of course this is very different from the way Browning-type tilting barrels and boosters work together to affect cycling and wear.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you had a Colt 9mm Rifle, or say an MP-5, both with static (non moving) barrels, the weapons cycling happens independent of any effect brought on by the suppressor. And there is no host wear as a result. No moving parts. Some pistol barrels are fixed as well. </div></div>
This is inaccurate in my experience. While the barrels are fixed in the examples above, use of a suppressor DOES affect the weapon's cycling - it increases the cyclic rate and makes the cycling more violent - thus increasing wear.
Of course this is very different from the way Browning-type tilting barrels and boosters work together to affect cycling and wear.
Re: Boosters
Interesting observation, different issues:
Here, the issue is a 9mm can. Example was a Colt 9mm and an MP-5 Both are blow backs, both would have zero impact with an appropriate low pressure can and even many/most high pressure cans. Same for, say an Ingram, M3, M3A1, Sten, Thompson, Reisling, Gustav etc. Pistol calibers. We could go into a long discussion about what makes a low or high pressure can.
Perhaps, you are thinking about a .223 gas operated through a high pressure can?
Interesting observation, different issues:
Here, the issue is a 9mm can. Example was a Colt 9mm and an MP-5 Both are blow backs, both would have zero impact with an appropriate low pressure can and even many/most high pressure cans. Same for, say an Ingram, M3, M3A1, Sten, Thompson, Reisling, Gustav etc. Pistol calibers. We could go into a long discussion about what makes a low or high pressure can.
Perhaps, you are thinking about a .223 gas operated through a high pressure can?
Re: Boosters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.awcsystech.com/products/suppressors/titanium-abraxas-9mm/
</div></div>
Was shooting one of these on a Glock 19 last weekend...VERY IMPRESSIVE!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://www.awcsystech.com/products/suppressors/titanium-abraxas-9mm/
</div></div>
Was shooting one of these on a Glock 19 last weekend...VERY IMPRESSIVE!
Re: Boosters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Example was a Colt 9mm and an MP-5 Both are blow backs</div></div>
Disagree. Only Colt 9mm is blowback. HK is delayed locking.
I use an AAC Phantom 9mm can. It's a Beretta pistol can with a stainless first baffle and is full-auto rated. Too bad they don't make it anymore because it was a great can - quiet and versatile. I've used it on Colt 9mm, UZI, M11, Swedish K, even Ciener .22 conversion on M16.
It speeds up everything, but to your point, not as much as a can on a DI gas gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Example was a Colt 9mm and an MP-5 Both are blow backs</div></div>
Disagree. Only Colt 9mm is blowback. HK is delayed locking.
I use an AAC Phantom 9mm can. It's a Beretta pistol can with a stainless first baffle and is full-auto rated. Too bad they don't make it anymore because it was a great can - quiet and versatile. I've used it on Colt 9mm, UZI, M11, Swedish K, even Ciener .22 conversion on M16.
It speeds up everything, but to your point, not as much as a can on a DI gas gun.
Re: Boosters
Delayed locking is blowback....delayed blowback.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Patent_3283435_8-Nov-1966_BREECH_CLOSURE_Theodor_Koch.png
..
Delayed locking is blowback....delayed blowback.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Patent_3283435_8-Nov-1966_BREECH_CLOSURE_Theodor_Koch.png
..
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