Bought a S&B Short Dot Dual 1-8 MDR-T6

[madangler1]

My Daniel Defense DD5V3 needed a scope; I was using a temporary measure while I mentally masterbated the past year about what to buy. My primary issue is my eyesight. I am -7.25 to -7.75 D (power depends on glasses vs contacts) with astigmatism. I am very sensitive to eyebox issues and any sort of "fish eye" or distortion seen on LPVOs. I love my Kahles 1-6 as a consequence. I can say the Steiner 1-4x works well for me too. I like my VCOG 1-8x, and I use it on my SCAR 17. However, I wanted to try something different. I was not impressed by the 1-10 Vortex; I did not like the Nightforce ATACR on low magnification. I came real close to ordering a Kahles 1-8 on sale at Euro Optic (30 mm tube), but I wanted a FFP scope if possible. Hence, I saved my pennies and went ahead and tried the S&B.

Anyhow, this set up is meant to be a "battle rifle" or at most a "DMR" type set up, not a sniper config. You can see I have a Surefire RC2 762K on the end of it to try to keep it compact (feels great, especially with the BCM stock and pistol grip). For a long range AR-10, I may buy another DD5 in V4-5 guise in the future if I want magnification (I also have a 308 bolt gun). I plan on taking this to a class at some point. I put the S&B in a ADM 1.93" recon mount I had. This height works best for me with my neck. The pic below is at a local 100 yard range (about the longest range I can get to these days):

Pros/Positives:
1. The scope comes with Tenebraex caps out of the box installed. They work perfect. The best thing is I can adjust the diopter easily without messing up the caps much. I have to adjust the diopter shooting with glasses or contacts. Today I shot with my contacts
2. I love the MDR-T6 reticle. It is the best reticle I have used on any LPVO. The dot is the key, much like the SKMR 3 reticle (or similar other reticles) that use a center dot. Very nice trying to shoot a 1/2" circle at 100 yards.
3. Eyebox is great on both 8x and CC mode. Just slightly smaller than say my VCOG 1-8x, but it is definitely larger than the Nightforce ATACR and Vortex 1-10. It is darn close to a Kahles 1-8 (30 mm tube). The Kahles 1-6x is still the king of LPVO eyeboxes from what I have tried at least. Regardless, S&B did a good job, and it opens up on the CC mode. I had no issues getting behind this scope on 8x.
4. Reticle illumination is good. Dot illumination is just like an Aimpoint, only crisper (no scatter at all). I had zero issues on CC mode hitting a steel plate from standing at 100 yards or on the bench.
5. Glass is clear. It's a covered canopy I was shooting in (open, not completely enclosed). Had no issues with light; I will have to try truly outdoors in low light in the future.
6. The turrets are very easy to adjust and lock. No issues.

Gripes (not really negatives).
1. I wish the illumination dial had spaces in-between the settings to turn off the dot/illumination. My VCOG 1-8 has this feature, and it's very hard not to want it on your other scopes. Likewise, they should better mark the difference between the two adjustments. One direction is for the dot, the other is for the reticle. You can't use both at once of course. With training, it won't matter, but I think a single direction of turning for the dial would have fixed the issue (just like passing the NV mode on Aimpoints to get to the main brightness).

2. My scope's elevation turret came from Euro Optic on the "6-7" mil setting. The adjustment above it where it wound up being zero at 100 yards. I then reset the zero stop to "0". Not sure if I'm going to lose some mil adjustment if I ever get to stretch out beyond 600 yards with this rifle. These are single turn turrets.
3. The magnification ring is sharp. Not easy to adjust unlike say a Leupold Mark 5 or any Kahles. I may get a throw lever for it.

All in all, despite the cost, I am very happy thus far with my purchase. If funds allow, I may buy another one for another rifle. Time will tell if it is worth it. With my eyes, I really prefer Euro glass, but that is me.

 

[Night Vision Viking]

Here's my take. Sold mine now, regretfully, but went for a higher magnification instead (S&B 3-20x and 5-20x)

TFB Review: The 1-8x24 PM II ShortDot Dual CC - from Schmidt & Bender -

The Firearm Blog is on a mission to review as many of the Schmidt & Bender PM II Riflescopes we can. In this article we're going to take a closer look at the Schmidt & Bender 1-8x24 PM II ShortDot Dual CC. This is probably the World's best Low Power Variable Optic for Designated Marksman-style...

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[longshot2000]

Pros/Positives:
1. The scope comes with Tenebraex caps out of the box installed. They work perfect. The best thing is I can adjust the diopter easily without messing up the caps much. I have to adjust the diopter shooting with glasses or contacts. Today I shot with my contacts
2. I love the MDR-T6 reticle. It is the best reticle I have used on any LPVO. The dot is the key, much like the SKMR 3 reticle (or similar other reticles) that use a center dot. Very nice trying to shoot a 1/2" circle at 100 yards.
3. Eyebox is great on both 8x and CC mode. Just slightly smaller than say my VCOG 1-8x, but it is definitely larger than the Nightforce ATACR and Vortex 1-10. It is darn close to a Kahles 1-8 (30 mm tube). The Kahles 1-6x is still the king of LPVO eyeboxes from what I have tried at least. Regardless, S&B did a good job, and it opens up on the CC mode. I had no issues getting behind this scope on 8x.
4. Reticle illumination is good. Dot illumination is just like an Aimpoint, only crisper (no scatter at all). I had zero issues on CC mode hitting a steel plate from standing at 100 yards or on the bench.
5. Glass is clear. It's a covered canopy I was shooting in (open, not completely enclosed). Had no issues with light; I will have to try truly outdoors in low light in the future.
6. The turrets are very easy to adjust and lock. No issues.

Gripes (not really negatives).
1. I wish the illumination dial had spaces in-between the settings to turn off the dot/illumination. My VCOG 1-8 has this feature, and it's very hard not to want it on your other scopes. Likewise, they should better mark the difference between the two adjustments. One direction is for the dot, the other is for the reticle. You can't use both at once of course. With training, it won't matter, but I think a single direction of turning for the dial would have fixed the issue (just like passing the NV mode on Aimpoints to get to the main brightness).
2. My scope's elevation turret came from Euro Optic on the "6-7" mil setting. The adjustment above it where it wound up being zero at 100 yards. I then reset the zero stop to "0". Not sure if I'm going to lose some mil adjustment if I ever get to stretch out beyond 600 yards with this rifle. These are single turn turrets.
3. The magnification ring is sharp. Not easy to adjust unlike say a Leupold Mark 5 or any Kahles. I may get a throw lever for it.

All in all, despite the cost, I am very happy thus far with my purchase. If funds allow, I may buy another one for another rifle. Time will tell if it is worth it. With my eyes, I really prefer Euro glass, but that is me.

That's a good evaluation. It is great scope. I had not heard complaints on the zoom ring being a problem, but a throw lever is a great idea.

I had the opportunity to sit down with the chief engineer at S&B two years ago, and my comment was that it was a bit over-engineered. Frankly, it is probably the best LPVO on the market, but does everyone really use the dual focal planes to merit the price over the ATACR. Interesting that you have an issue with NF. I could not tell, but sounded like it was with your eyes and not their scope?

I totally agree with your assessment on the MDR-T6 reticle. I am with you on that one. As a shooter, I am not sure I would spend the money on another reticle. As a dealer, the MDR-T6 is by far a favorite for those with the money. There are other reticles for less money. It is interesting the spread on price between models. We carry the RAL8000, as our market likes the military version of just about everything, but have a few black. We sell RAL8000 probably 2:1 over black. I think that is only because we carry more, and others carry black.

It is a scope you can fall in love with. I am cringing at the cradle that great scope is sitting in. Maybe temporary? Let me know if we can help with a mount or another S&B.

 

[madangler1]

That's a good evaluation. It is great scope. I had not heard complaints on the zoom ring being a problem, but a throw lever is a great idea.

I had the opportunity to sit down with the chief engineer at S&B two years ago, and my comment was that it was a bit over-engineered. Frankly, it is probably the best LPVO on the market, but does everyone really use the dual focal planes to merit the price over the ATACR. Interesting that you have an issue with NF. I could not tell, but sounded like it was with your eyes and not their scope?

I totally agree with your assessment on the MDR-T6 reticle. I am with you on that one. As a shooter, I am not sure I would spend the money on another reticle. As a dealer, the MDR-T6 is by far a favorite for those with the money. There are other reticles for less money. It is interesting the spread on price between models. We carry the RAL8000, as our market likes the military version of just about everything, but have a few black. We sell RAL8000 probably 2:1 over black. I think that is only because we carry more, and others carry black.

It is a scope you can fall in love with. I am cringing at the cradle that great scope is sitting in. Maybe temporary? Let me know if we can help with a mount or another S&B.

Thanks for the reply.

My primary issue with the Nightforce ATACR 1-8 is on 1x power. I see a big fish eye effect, worse than the Vortex scopes. May be me. On 6-8x, the ATACR shines. Also, I cannot stand the lack of a normal diopter adjustment on the ATACR. It’s a real pain. I have to make a 0.25-0.5 D adjustment when shooting with contacts or my glasses unfortunately.

Over engineered! No way! Don’t tell them that! So far I think it’s great! No way I am ever selling this thing unless it tanks/breaks for no good reason. Time will tell.

I hate the flat dark earth/RAL 8000 craze. OD green makes far more sense for most people on this planet, or even a darker mud color, than most FDE.

Dude! What’s wrong with ADM mounts? I have run their Delta and Recon mounts for years, and their new titanium levers are awesome. If I upgraded, it would be for a Spuhr or Badger Ordnance. I like the 1.93” height for my neck when shooting prone. I also like throw levers in the event of an optic failure (Paul Howe with CSAT used to preach that. Anyhow, their Delta mount always held zero for me on a SCAR 17. Zero issues, but I am not constantly removing them. I have had no issues with their newer split ring Recon mounts with Ti levers.

Thanks

 

[Nomyth]

First post, I promise I'm not a bot!

Nice writeup by the way. I'm very curious about how well the magnification ring feels to you, aside from the sharpness. Is it at least quick to turn? Or is there a sizeable amount of resistance?

Saw your comments about the illumination dial too. Is the dial at least easy to turn with crisp detents, or is it a bit mushy like an Aimpoint dial (which is admittedly that way due to being very well-sealed)?

 

[madangler1]

First post, I promise I'm not a bot!

Nice writeup by the way. I'm very curious about how well the magnification ring feels to you, aside from the sharpness. Is it at least quick to turn? Or is there a sizeable amount of resistance?

Saw your comments about the illumination dial too. Is the dial at least easy to turn with crisp detents, or is it a bit mushy like an Aimpoint dial (which is admittedly that way due to being very well-sealed)?

The magnification ring is aluminum. The notches/serrations are sharp in my opinion. It takes some effort to adjust it, but it is tolerable. I’m sure it will break in with use.

I just ordered a S&B throw lever: https://www.eurooptic.com/Schmidt-Bender-PM-II-Throw-Lever-971-06841.aspx

The illumination adjustment itself is fine. Nice clicks; no issues. It is not an Aimpoint lol.

My point was you have to develop muscle memory to remember to turn either clockwise vs counterclockwise for the red dot vs the reticle illumination. I would have simplified the operation by turning one direction for all settings. Otherwise the turrets and illumination dial is wonderful.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

Nice post! How many rounds have you fired through the DD, and how reliable has it been?

 

[madangler1]

Nice post! How many rounds have you fired through the DD, and how reliable has it been?

Too few because of work lol!

I am probably up to 500-600 rounds. Surprisingly, with my K length Surefire 762 SOCOM rc2, I don’t always have to put the gas block in the suppressed setting. I find some .308/SAAMI spec loads that are not “hot” to need the normal gas setting. Otherwise I will get a FTF on the suppressed setting. When I put my full length Surefire 762 can on, with the gas block set to suppressed, I have no issues.

Anyway, zero malfunctions other than me screwing with the gas block and changing cans. My Surefire 762K SOCOM RC2 has far leas blow back, and hence, the rifle is best left in the normal gas setting. I love mY DD5V3. I installed a Geissele trigger, Bravo company furniture. I am liking it thus far.

 

[Budrichard]

I have had this scope for a few years now on my ‘Battle’ rifle.
The mag ring is stiff but the Shark Fin I recently got from S&B Australia helps.
The rings MK Machining sent me never worked.
The reticle illumination could be much brighter.
The Dot illumination is very good and one CAN use the Dot with the reticle!
I would have liked the Dot to be an MOA or two larger.
Any departure from a Dot that an individual might have is due to thier own astigmatism.
I purchased from Cameraland with a discount at a good price before S&B gave the distributorship to Euro Optic.
I’m not sure I would pay todays price?
-Richard
BTW The SIG is now an SBR waiting for me to have the time to install a proper stock!
I also have a SIG 5.56 Suppressor I need to mount.

 

[freedom71]

Congratulations! I had this scope and loved so much about it—the glass, reticle, eye box, etc., are all superb. Nothing else compares.

The only problem I encountered had to do with the diffractive illumination. For me, the red dot was bright so long as I was directly behind it. The brightness fell off considerably when viewing off center and was difficult to see in bright daylight. That was a deal-breaker for me when moving the rifle from side to side in competitive shooting, as opposed to shooting prone or off a bench. I even sent the scope back to SB for a check and they found nothing was wrong with it.

I wasn't the only one who noticed it: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...rtex-razor-gen3-1-10x24.7027593/#post-8863442.

Perhaps it was just my eyes or sample variation, but I haven't had the same illumination fall-off with my Razor 1-10 Gen III, which also has diffractive illumination.

 

[Hoody2shoes]

Thanks for the reply.

My primary issue with the Nightforce ATACR 1-8 is on 1x power. I see a big fish eye effect, worse than the Vortex scopes. May be me. On 6-8x, the ATACR shines. Also, I cannot stand the lack of a normal diopter adjustment on the ATACR. It’s a real pain. I have to make a 0.25-0.5 D adjustment when shooting with contacts or my glasses unfortunately.

Over engineered! No way! Don’t tell them that! So far I think it’s great! No way I am ever selling this thing unless it tanks/breaks for no good reason. Time will tell.

I hate the flat dark earth/RAL 8000 craze. OD green makes far more sense for most people on this planet, or even a darker mud color, than most FDE.

Dude! What’s wrong with ADM mounts? I have run their Delta and Recon mounts for years, and their new titanium levers are awesome. If I upgraded, it would be for a Spuhr or Badger Ordnance. I like the 1.93” height for my neck when shooting prone. I also like throw levers in the event of an optic failure (Paul Howe with CSAT used to preach that. Anyhow, their Delta mount always held zero for me on a SCAR 17. Zero issues, but I am not constantly removing them. I have had no issues with their newer split ring Recon mounts with Ti levers.

Thanks

The diopter on the atacr is a pain to set-it took me literally forever to get it set right. I discovered since I shoot both eyes open that I needed to set the diopter while using 1x, not max mag-doing so dialed it in without losing clarity at the other mag ranges. Sometimes glass just doesn't agree with your eyes though-I had this problem with the razor 1-10. I couldn't get it to focus through the whole mag range no matter how hard I tried. Great write up

 

[madangler1]

Congratulations! I had this scope and loved so much about it—the glass, reticle, eye box, etc., are all superb. Nothing else compares.

The only problem I encountered had to do with the diffractive illumination. For me, the red dot was bright so long as I was directly behind it. The brightness fell off considerably when viewing off center and was difficult to see in bright daylight. That was a deal-breaker for me when moving the rifle from side to side in competitive shooting, as opposed to shooting prone or off a bench. I even sent the scope back to SB for a check and they found nothing was wrong with it.

I wasn't the only one who noticed it: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...rtex-razor-gen3-1-10x24.7027593/#post-8863442.

Perhaps it was just my eyes or sample variation, but I haven't had the same illumination fall-off with my Razor 1-10 Gen III, which also has diffractive illumination.

Yeah I read about that before my purchase. Work gets in the way of me shooting more at present. Time will tell if I have the issue, but for now it appears it is working fine for me. I always shoot nose to charging handle (roughly) with my ARs.

 

[madangler1]

I just shot my rifle indoors today, ~ 140 rounds, with the S&B mostly in CC mode. I had no issues with the dot brightness while in the scope’s eyebox, even when off center and left handed. Hopefully at some point this winter, I can get to the multigun style range I am a member of, so I can shoot it outdoors in the sunlight. What I really need is a 600 yard range within two hours driving distance.

 

[Burdy]

Welcome to the club. Love mine. Sent it in and had parallax set at 300m. What a scope.

 

[pucker]

Thought I'd add... this Aadland throw lever fits perfectly.

I much prefer it to the S&B fin, and it's 1/3 the cost.

 

[Burdy]

Thought I'd add... this Aadmount throw lever fits perfectly.

I much prefer it to the S&B fin, and it's 1/3 the cost.

Had no clue that existed. Have a pic with it on the scope?

 

[pucker]

The only pic I had...but I can take more if there's something specific you're looking for.

Thanks to S&B's new aluminum zoom ring design (no single proud ridge), the throw lever can be mounted in any position.

Edit: cleared up 'proud ridge' as singular

 

[madangler1]

Thanks for the tip! I bought the expensive shark fin and was not impressed. I will order one and try it out. It looks like it is made out of the same material as their scope caps, but which is a good thing.

 

[mrtoyz]

Another vote for AADLAND lever I’ve got a few on S&B’s and they’re great. Jon is a great guy building nice products, just know he can be hard to get ahold of.

 

[madangler1]

and the 3-20 US model works on the 1-8 short dot?

 

[pucker]

and the 3-20 US model works on the 1-8 short dot?

Affirm, and works on 3-27 too. Not sure about 5-45...I see Jon has a separate listing for the 5-45, so maybe that zoom ring is different.

 

[Burdy]

View attachment 8321924

The only pic I had...but I can take more if there's something specific you're looking for.

Thanks to S&B's new aluminum zoom ring design (no proud ridges), the throw lever can be mounted in any position.

Mine has the older rubber ridged mag ring I guess. Not sure if this would work. I have had many of Aadland caps and he does make a great product.

 

[pucker]

Mine has the older rubber ridged mag ring I guess. Not sure if this would work. I have had many of Aadland caps and he does make a great product.

Not aware of Short Dot Dual CC w/ rubber zoom ring. Either way, anything but the alum zoom ring (like pics above) would not work.

You have pic?

 

[Burdy]

Not aware of Short Dot Dual CC w/ rubber zoom ring. Either way, anything but the alum zoom ring (like pics above) would not work.

You have pic?

 

[pucker]

View attachment 8323004

That's the standard alum zoom ring. Aadland lever will work great.

 

[Steel+Killer]

I wish the illumination dial had spaces in-between the settings to turn off the dot/illumination.

Wow I can't believe a scope of that caliber doesn't have that. It is a nice feature to have especially when you get used to it.

 

[Mute]

Thanks for the reply.

My primary issue with the Nightforce ATACR 1-8 is on 1x power. I see a big fish eye effect, worse than the Vortex scopes. May be me. On 6-8x, the ATACR shines. Also, I cannot stand the lack of a normal diopter adjustment on the ATACR. It’s a real pain. I have to make a 0.25-0.5 D adjustment when shooting with contacts or my glasses unfortunately.

Over engineered! No way! Don’t tell them that! So far I think it’s great! No way I am ever selling this thing unless it tanks/breaks for no good reason. Time will tell.

I hate the flat dark earth/RAL 8000 craze. OD green makes far more sense for most people on this planet, or even a darker mud color, than most FDE.

Dude! What’s wrong with ADM mounts? I have run their Delta and Recon mounts for years, and their new titanium levers are awesome. If I upgraded, it would be for a Spuhr or Badger Ordnance. I like the 1.93” height for my neck when shooting prone. I also like throw levers in the event of an optic failure (Paul Howe with CSAT used to preach that. Anyhow, their Delta mount always held zero for me on a SCAR 17. Zero issues, but I am not constantly removing them. I have had no issues with their newer split ring Recon mounts with Ti levers.

Thanks

Solid review. I feel the same way about the ATACR. Good at 8x but did not like it at 1x.