- Thread starter Btillr
- Start date
Re: Brass coming apart
shit brass... if factory rounds did that I'd be pissed....
I'm having a 243 issue right now that might be Hornady brass related... gotta do some more testing to know for sure
shit brass... if factory rounds did that I'd be pissed....
I'm having a 243 issue right now that might be Hornady brass related... gotta do some more testing to know for sure
Re: Brass coming apart
+1 for shit brass.
+1 for shit brass.
Re: Brass coming apart
I would have already called Hornady's customer service. And I wouldn't shoot any more of that ammo. Good luck...
I would have already called Hornady's customer service. And I wouldn't shoot any more of that ammo. Good luck...
Re: Brass coming apart
I don't know about shit brass, without more data, but that looks like excessive headspace to me? BB
I don't know about shit brass, without more data, but that looks like excessive headspace to me? BB
Re: Brass coming apart
that looks like it could be a severe head space issue to me.
that looks like it could be a severe head space issue to me.
Re: Brass coming apart
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about shit brass, without more data, but that looks like excessive headspace to me? BB </div></div>
I agree
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about shit brass, without more data, but that looks like excessive headspace to me? BB </div></div>
I agree
Re: Brass coming apart
I assume you had a lot of trouble extracting the upper half? Okay, this is a new rifle, 120 pieces of brass and eight failures, right? You should have stopped and evaluated the situation with the first example. This is not a small detail, I also assume the rest of your fired cases, (or a good percentage) show incipient case head separation? Looks like you have something seriously wrong, I wouldn't shoot it. Take everything to your gunsmith and get a determination. BB
I assume you had a lot of trouble extracting the upper half? Okay, this is a new rifle, 120 pieces of brass and eight failures, right? You should have stopped and evaluated the situation with the first example. This is not a small detail, I also assume the rest of your fired cases, (or a good percentage) show incipient case head separation? Looks like you have something seriously wrong, I wouldn't shoot it. Take everything to your gunsmith and get a determination. BB
Re: Brass coming apart
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about shit brass, without more data, but that looks like excessive headspace to me? BB</div></div>
Exactly what I was trying to figure out. Trying to diagnose the problem instead of yelling "shit brass" and leaving it at that. Having used alot of Hornady brass I know it's not shit but he mnight have a dangerous problem and lucky only 8 pieces came apart.
Now measure the new and fired cases from the base to datum line on the case shoulders and see how much they are stretching.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about shit brass, without more data, but that looks like excessive headspace to me? BB</div></div>
Exactly what I was trying to figure out. Trying to diagnose the problem instead of yelling "shit brass" and leaving it at that. Having used alot of Hornady brass I know it's not shit but he mnight have a dangerous problem and lucky only 8 pieces came apart.
Now measure the new and fired cases from the base to datum line on the case shoulders and see how much they are stretching.
Re: Brass coming apart
There you go. If it still closes on the NOGO gauge, you can add pieces of masking tape to the bottom to see just how much excess headspace you have, if any at all. Sucks you had to spend money on them though.
There you go. If it still closes on the NOGO gauge, you can add pieces of masking tape to the bottom to see just how much excess headspace you have, if any at all. Sucks you had to spend money on them though.
Re: Brass coming apart
When I get home I'll pull all my brass together and inspect it better! What is the datum line? I know nothing about reloading . And as far as the price on the headspace gauges that is a small price to pay in sport shooting!
When I get home I'll pull all my brass together and inspect it better! What is the datum line? I know nothing about reloading . And as far as the price on the headspace gauges that is a small price to pay in sport shooting!
Re: Brass coming apart
The datum line is the point on the shoulder between the body and shoulder junction and the neck and shoulder junction. It's the point reloaders measure to to figure how much they want to bump the shoulder back as you don't want to bump it too much as it stretches the brass and will give you headcase seperation.
Do you have a set of calipers?
The datum line is the point on the shoulder between the body and shoulder junction and the neck and shoulder junction. It's the point reloaders measure to to figure how much they want to bump the shoulder back as you don't want to bump it too much as it stretches the brass and will give you headcase seperation.
Do you have a set of calipers?
Re: Brass coming apart
Usually you need a spoecial tool but seeing as you are spending money on guages no need to spend anymore. In a pinch you can use a piece of pistol brass that will reach down to the mid shoulder area. Try a 9mm or .40. Measure the fired and new cases and compare them to the listed case dimensions.
Usually you need a spoecial tool but seeing as you are spending money on guages no need to spend anymore. In a pinch you can use a piece of pistol brass that will reach down to the mid shoulder area. Try a 9mm or .40. Measure the fired and new cases and compare them to the listed case dimensions.
Re: Brass coming apart
Measuring overall length is ok as an indicator but to tell the real tale you have to measure where your go/no go guages will measure in the shoulder area.
You have any friends that handload?
Measuring overall length is ok as an indicator but to tell the real tale you have to measure where your go/no go guages will measure in the shoulder area.
You have any friends that handload?
Re: Brass coming apart
Where in Virginia are you?
Where in Virginia are you?
Re: Brass coming apart
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Measuring overall length is ok as an indicator but to tell the real tale you have to measure where your go/no go guages will measure in the shoulder area.
You have any friends that handload?
</div></div>
No I don't. I'm in prince George, about an hr or so from norfolk
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Measuring overall length is ok as an indicator but to tell the real tale you have to measure where your go/no go guages will measure in the shoulder area.
You have any friends that handload?
</div></div>
No I don't. I'm in prince George, about an hr or so from norfolk
Re: Brass coming apart
Gotta be honest, a little to far of a drive to measure cases.
Gotta be honest, a little to far of a drive to measure cases.
Re: Brass coming apart
If you have a different case mouth or even a nut large enough to slip over the neck you may be able to use it to compare the shoulders on once fired and unfired cases.
If you have a different case mouth or even a nut large enough to slip over the neck you may be able to use it to compare the shoulders on once fired and unfired cases.
Re: Brass coming apart
Have the rifle checked by a gunsmith.
Have the rifle checked by a gunsmith.
Re: Brass coming apart
Based on your photo of the separated brass and the rough case length measurements, it sure looks like an excessive headspace issue. Just based on your rough measurements and the assumption that the case lengths are somewhat consistent, it looks like you have in the neighborhood of .022-.026" of headspace. If this is the case (no pun), I'm surprised that they all didn't separate.
Your best bet is to get it checked by a gunsmith.
Based on your photo of the separated brass and the rough case length measurements, it sure looks like an excessive headspace issue. Just based on your rough measurements and the assumption that the case lengths are somewhat consistent, it looks like you have in the neighborhood of .022-.026" of headspace. If this is the case (no pun), I'm surprised that they all didn't separate.
Your best bet is to get it checked by a gunsmith.
Re: Brass coming apart
did you build the rifle? who's barrel did you use if you built it, did the barrel come with the bolt? Ive shot over 1000 rounds of hornady ammo out of my grendel and never once had one come apart, Ive been shooting reloads using that brass now and some are on the 5th reload now, people have more problems with the primer pockets getting loose than having the case crack or come apart like that. I checked mine and the shoulder from a new case to a fired one is .005 on mine
did you build the rifle? who's barrel did you use if you built it, did the barrel come with the bolt? Ive shot over 1000 rounds of hornady ammo out of my grendel and never once had one come apart, Ive been shooting reloads using that brass now and some are on the 5th reload now, people have more problems with the primer pockets getting loose than having the case crack or come apart like that. I checked mine and the shoulder from a new case to a fired one is .005 on mine
Re: Brass coming apart
I've had the same problem years ago, and it was only a matter of excessive headspace on well (ab)used military rifles_ accurately wrong resizing tasks can have the same effect, of course _ I managed to experiment both simultaneously,with interesting results...
I've had the same problem years ago, and it was only a matter of excessive headspace on well (ab)used military rifles_ accurately wrong resizing tasks can have the same effect, of course _ I managed to experiment both simultaneously,with interesting results...
Re: Brass coming apart
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flashhole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May sound silly but are you shooting the correct ammo for your gun? Does your gun have a custom chamber of wildcat variety? </div></div>
Not silly, at all when he seems unsure of his chambering? BB
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flashhole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May sound silly but are you shooting the correct ammo for your gun? Does your gun have a custom chamber of wildcat variety? </div></div>
Not silly, at all when he seems unsure of his chambering? BB
Re: Brass coming apart
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not silly, at all when he seems unsure of his chambering? BB </div></div>
Im not unsure of my chambering at all, simpley thinking 1 thing and typed another!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lethal93ta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did you build the rifle? who's barrel did you use if you built it, did the barrel come with the bolt? </div></div>
Yes I built the rifle using a Black Hole Weaponry barrel, I had to buy the bolt seperate ( I used the company Black Hole reccomended).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not silly, at all when he seems unsure of his chambering? BB </div></div>
Im not unsure of my chambering at all, simpley thinking 1 thing and typed another!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lethal93ta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did you build the rifle? who's barrel did you use if you built it, did the barrel come with the bolt? </div></div>
Yes I built the rifle using a Black Hole Weaponry barrel, I had to buy the bolt seperate ( I used the company Black Hole reccomended).
Re: Brass coming apart
Take the other brass 112 pieces you have and take a paper clip and straighten it out and put a small bend at the end. Run the clip down the interior of the brass slowly feeling for brass seperation in the end near the base. If there is any depression felt, I would look at two things. Check the primers, are they showing signs of overpressure? If so then you have a hot load, if not, then as mentioned above it is most likely a headspace issue. The later I have never looked into as I have not had that issue, but I have issue running 44 gr of Varget in my 308 and experienced a similar issue with LC brass, I lowered my charge to 41 gr and I still shoot 2750-2800 fps (from a chrony beta which may be off) but the brass doesnt show signs like yours above any more. Mine never came apart, but you could see the cracks and the unfortunate "leakage" from a cracked case. I only shot about 10 before I noticed.
Take the other brass 112 pieces you have and take a paper clip and straighten it out and put a small bend at the end. Run the clip down the interior of the brass slowly feeling for brass seperation in the end near the base. If there is any depression felt, I would look at two things. Check the primers, are they showing signs of overpressure? If so then you have a hot load, if not, then as mentioned above it is most likely a headspace issue. The later I have never looked into as I have not had that issue, but I have issue running 44 gr of Varget in my 308 and experienced a similar issue with LC brass, I lowered my charge to 41 gr and I still shoot 2750-2800 fps (from a chrony beta which may be off) but the brass doesnt show signs like yours above any more. Mine never came apart, but you could see the cracks and the unfortunate "leakage" from a cracked case. I only shot about 10 before I noticed.
Re: Brass coming apart
I'd bet you have a serious/dangerous headspace problem and would not shoot the rifle until it is inspected and corrected. Unless you are a gunsmith, I'd recommend always buying an AR barrel that has the barrel extension installed and a properly headspaced bolt provided. If you do this yourself, then you definitely need some headspace gauges to check your work.
I'd bet you have a serious/dangerous headspace problem and would not shoot the rifle until it is inspected and corrected. Unless you are a gunsmith, I'd recommend always buying an AR barrel that has the barrel extension installed and a properly headspaced bolt provided. If you do this yourself, then you definitely need some headspace gauges to check your work.
Re: Brass coming apart
Here's a link, if needed, from Civilian Marksmanship Program to help you understand headspace better;
http://odcmp.com/Sales/askarmorerheadspace.htm
One more article on headspacing;
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/09/23/gunsmithing_headspace_0612/
Here's a link, if needed, from Civilian Marksmanship Program to help you understand headspace better;
http://odcmp.com/Sales/askarmorerheadspace.htm
One more article on headspacing;
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/09/23/gunsmithing_headspace_0612/
