Brass Problem

[LSOSGT1109]

I have a bunch of LC M118LR and FGMM brass that was shot out of M-14's. I loaded up 20 of the LC and 20 of the FGMM and when I got to the range they wouldn't chamber in my Savage 10FP. I got home and measured them in the middle of the brass and they measured .425 to .430. I then measured some factory black hills ammo and some other brass that I know had been once fired thru a bolt gun. All that brass measured .419 to .424 in the center of the brass. I sized the brass in my RCBS full length sizer before I loaded it. I tried sizing again but it didn't help. Did shooting it thru the old M-14's cause this? Is there anything I can do to size this brass so it can be used?

 

[orkan]

Re: Brass Problem

Is your FL sizing die out of spec? You would think that FL sizing would squeeze it back down to where it needs to be.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a bunch of LC M118LR and FGMM brass that was shot out of M-14's. I loaded up 20 of the LC and 20 of the FGMM and when I got to the range they wouldn't chamber in my Savage 10FP. I got home and measured them in the middle of the brass and they measured .425 to .430. I then measured some factory black hills ammo and some other brass that I know had been once fired thru a bolt gun. All that brass measured .419 to .424 in the center of the brass. I sized the brass in my RCBS full length sizer before I loaded it. I tried sizing again but it didn't help. Did shooting it thru the old M-14's cause this? Is there anything I can do to size this brass so it can be used? </div></div>

It's not the case body's width that's preventing the rounds from chambering, but most probably your shoulders aren't getting bumped back down, enough. Think length, not width.

Crank your sizing die down a eight of a turn and try and chamber them, if you don't have a set of bump/headspace gages.

Chris

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a bunch of LC M118LR and FGMM brass that was shot out of M-14's. I loaded up 20 of the LC and 20 of the FGMM and when I got to the range they wouldn't chamber in my Savage 10FP. I got home and measured them in the middle of the brass and they measured .425 to .430. I then measured some factory black hills ammo and some other brass that I know had been once fired thru a bolt gun. All that brass measured .419 to .424 in the center of the brass. I sized the brass in my RCBS full length sizer before I loaded it. I tried sizing again but it didn't help. Did shooting it thru the old M-14's cause this? Is there anything I can do to size this brass so it can be used? </div></div>

The M-14's sloppy chambers and from an assortment of different rifles,will reliably hose you. You are fighting a multitude of headspace and body dimensioning differences,which will fuck you hard.

"Free" can get expensive. Good components are never a concession.

 

[LSOSGT1109]

Re: Brass Problem

The case lengths are all less than 2 inches. Most are right around 1.96 inches. I'll crank the sizing die down 1.8th crank and try it again. I've got a shitload of this brass and I hate not to be able to use it but if cranking the sizing die down doesn't fix it, I'm just gonna say screw it and order some new brass!

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

You are fighting a multitude of variables,less their being constant. So every hull is different from the last and that's a tough way to play ball.

Consistency is the key and things get ugly when it goes away.

 

[David300]

Re: Brass Problem

I have about 500 from misc.machine guns, M14 and HK's + no telling what else.
The only way I even try to use them is throw away all the HK brass and full length size everything else with the die bottoming out on the shell holder and I also have to trim most of it.so far all of it is working..

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

Oh I'm deep in milsurp hulls myself,but they are what they are.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Brass Problem

If you just want to run the milsurp, use a Small Base FL die and see if that remedies your issue.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

Trouble is,that's alot to ask a case,who was stretched outta the gate in a sloppy chamber.

There are diminishing returns here.

 

[JeffinTX]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The case lengths are all less than 2 inches. Most are right around 1.96 inches. I'll crank the sizing die down 1.8th crank and try it again. I've got a shitload of this brass and I hate not to be able to use it but if cranking the sizing die down doesn't fix it, I'm just gonna say screw it and order some new brass! </div></div>

The case overall length should NOT be an issue with once fired brass. But this is federal brass, which is usually SOFTER than LC, and fired through a M14 (or worse, a M60), which both guns are known to be real rough on the brass. The brass through a M14 will often have headspace lengthen .003 to .005". The softer Fed brass doesn't help. The timing on the 14 is such that the brass is being extracted way before the pressure have come down in the case, so its still partially expanded against the chamber when the extractor comes a pullin on it. This is nothing new, and when the M14 was the main gun for service rifle matches, it was almost gospel that you pitch the brass after no more than 4 reloads lest you tempt the Gods with a case seperation in the middle of your rapid fire string. LC brass is harder and heavier than Win, and made to handle the likes of the 14 better. The chamber on your Savage bolt gun is likely to be tighter (in diameter) as well. If you have a headspace gauge or at least a Wilson case gage, than you can see how the newly fired brass from your bolt gun and the brass from the 14 stack up, and size down accordingly. You should bring the shoulders about .003" under on a gas gun for reliable feed and eject. Do not do neck sizing alone for the gas gun, especially in the 14. If you don't have a gage, then try turning the dies down 1/8th turn at a time, until the resized brass can easily chamber and extract.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trouble is,that's alot to ask a case,who was stretched outta the gate in a sloppy chamber.

There are diminishing returns here. </div></div>

agreed

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Brass Problem

Don't they make small-base dies to handle this kind of problem?

 

[tfsron]

Re: Brass Problem

Consistency is necessary; you need to work towards that.

Sort your brass by Mfg. and date code.

Full length resize not neck size.

Lube well when resizing; I like Imperial/Redding Die Wax.

Make sure your brass is clean before resizing.

You can measure the head space with this type set up:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5574/Case-Gauges-Headspace-Tools

Wilson also makes case gauges for SAAMI chambers that work well and are easy to use.


Otherwise try the resized brass in your chamber when it comes out of the resizing die.

If it will not chamber easily:
1. Check the trim length.
2. Turn the resizing die down.
3. If the resizing die is hard against the shell holder you can shorten the die, shorten the shell holder or try small base dies.
4. Watch what you are doing and do not over do it; excessive head space is hard on the brass at best and dangerous at the worst.

Smoke or magic marker your cases before you try to chamber them to see where it is too tight.

Firing sorted brass once in your chamber should give you reasonable consistency; if not anneal the necks.

If the brass still causes problems or does not shoot the way you want, toss it and buy Lapua, you have done everything you can.


Good shooting
Ron

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

Even if the same Lot of brass,you are still fighting it having been fired in multiple chambers,other than the one of intent.

No gauges are requisite,for a rifle that's in hand.

 

[LSOSGT1109]

Re: Brass Problem

Thanks for the help guys. I turned the die down 1/4 turn and that seems to have worked. I loaded a round up with an oal of 2.796 , which is what I have been running, and it chambered and extracted fine.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

Wear glasses.(grin)

 

[Downzero]

Re: Brass Problem

I've seen so many problems that I'm about to put "get a fucking case gauge" in my signature line.

Your problem is and always was caused by not knowing how to set your sizing die. If your ammo won't fit in a case gauge and headspace, it probably won't fit in your rifle.

I case gauge every round that isn't in brass that was already fired in my rifle.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Brass Problem

Yes they do. Got one for sizing shit brass for my HK91 and for the bras that comes out of it.

If you are shooting a bolt action why don't you just get some good brass? Not like you need to spend a thousand bucks or something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't they make small-base dies to handle this kind of problem? </div></div>

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen so many problems that I'm about to put "get a fucking case gauge" in my signature line.

Your problem is and always was caused by not knowing how to set your sizing die. If your ammo won't fit in a case gauge and headspace, it probably won't fit in your rifle.

I case gauge every round that isn't in brass that was already fired in my rifle. </div></div>

"Probably" isn't very comforting,thus my disdain for gadgetry,with said rifle in hand.

None of this shit is hard.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen so many problems that I'm about to put "get a fucking case gauge" in my signature line.

Your problem is and always was caused by not knowing how to set your sizing die. If your ammo won't fit in a case gauge and headspace, it probably won't fit in your rifle.

I case gauge every round that isn't in brass that was already fired in my rifle. </div></div>

"Probably" isn't very comforting,thus my disdain for gadgetry,with said rifle in hand.

None of this shit is hard. </div></div>

I actually agree with you. There's no reason to needlessly push the shoulder back further than necessary if you're only loading for one rifle.

And you're right, it ain't hard. I know that I won't load a neck down case without checking this. Sizing die setting is the most critical thing you ever do when loading rifle cases.

I said "probably" because it's possible that your rifle's chamber is sloppier than the case gauge. I've yet to have a round that fits in my case gauge not fit in my rifle, however.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: Brass Problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I turned the die down 1/4 turn and that seems to have worked. </div></div>

To properly FL size a case, the sizing die has to make contact with the shell holder. With this mil brass, the only option should be to FL size, and not mess with a neck sizing.

 

[balkandom]

Re: Brass Problem

I use LC "Match" brass almost exclusively. As a rule of thumb, I FL size it using a SB die for the first loading, then neck size after that for the ammo I load for my bolt rifle. I haven't run into any issues yet.

My 2 cents...

 

[DAFAR]

Re: Brass Problem

For my Bolt gun the the full lenght resize and then necksize has worked great. However my DPMS is driving me crazy. I purchased a sb die from rcbs and still had rouns that failed to fully seat(not all but some) And many off them that do seat ( if I dont fire them) I can not seem to manually eject without dificulty. I had thought the base was an issue but maybe it is the shoulder set back you guys were talking about.