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Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

mattmcg

mattmcg

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 19, 2007
868
2
CA
#1
Well, I knew it was too good to be true. I am loading for long range competition and was using 46.5gr of Varget in Lapua 308 Win cases topped with a Lapua 155gr Scenar. Chrono was reading 2900fps on the dot with less than 15 ES and groups less than .6". After working this through, I was extremely happy with the entire setup.

The one nagging issue I had was after loading 500 rounds, I had the seater stem separate on a Redding 308 Win comp seater die which began digging into the sliding sleeve and creating a rough edge that would damage the bullet and seat inconsistently. Thinking it was a fluke, I simply swapped the die out for another one figuring I just had a defective die.

After loading another 500 rounds today, the seater stem snapped again on my 2nd die! Same exact issue. Seater stem snaps, digs into the side of the sliding sleeve, and leaves inconsistent seating depths.

At 46.5gr, it was a slightly compressed load and crunching could be heard when pressing to a 2.1200" length to ogive. I guess these dies just can't hack the compression required for this load and will either have to back off of find a more robust die with a micrometer top.......

Huge bummer. After investing this much time and seeing positive results everywhere else, it sucks to have your dies not be able to hack a bit of a compressed load.

I'd love to hear some of your thoughts and experiences with this.
 
#5
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

Well, maybe the seater stem is adjusted too far down and the Mircometer head is not supporting the stem?

What exactly broke parts wise?
 
#6
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

Yeah, the micrometer is adjusted correctly with the small ball portion being the only part touching the seater stem.

As far as what broke, the seater stem itself is being spread apart and has a small crack only visible under pressure. The stem separation is causing friction on the sliding sleeve creating a small ridge of steel in the path of the sliding sleeve to stem junction.
 
#9
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Will</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you should try using a long drop tube to settle the powder before trying to crunch. Personally I think it's operator error.
I can get 45.5 of IMR 4895 in my Lapua cases no problem using the drop tube method. </div></div>

Jumping to conclusions aren't you?

Yes, I happen to use a drop tube for this load. Even with the drop tube, its a compressed load which is why the die is breaking. Can't see any other reason for it.
 
#10
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Breaking two is more than a fluke. For my gun, anything over 45.5gr is serious compression and I don't go beyond that. </div></div>

Yeah, I was playing around with Quickload last night using the measured capacity of a few fired cases and the 46.5gr load is just shy of 110% of loadable capacity.
 
#12
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

A lot of these kinds of problems have to do wiht the speed of the arm used to push the lever on the press down. It should take about 3 seconds for the lever to go from fully raised to fully depressed while seating precision bullets. You want to feel the boat tail caress the case mouth, feel the neck expand as the bullet sinks slowly into the neck.

BTW I'm comming up on 5 thousand rounds through my competition seater.
 
#13
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

It is not an isolated incident with some highpower shooters using compressed loads. The seating stem that contacts the bullet is very thin. We see the stem split and start binding like you describe. Get a Forester BR seating die, same basic design, but built much more robust. Changed over to one two years ago and never looked back.

Doug Giraud
Giraud Tool Company
 
#14
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dhg2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not an isolated incident with some highpower shooters using compressed loads. The seating stem that contacts the bullet is very thin. We see the stem split and start binding like you describe. Get a Forester BR seating die, same basic design, but built much more robust. Changed over to one two years ago and never looked back.

Doug Giraud
Giraud Tool Company </div></div>

Doug, I've read the same elsewhere now that I've Googled on the topic and found a few forums that discuss the topic.

When you say the Forster BR seater, do you mean their Ultra Micrometer die? They have a Benchrest die without the micrometer and the Ultra Micrometer with the micrometer.
 
#16
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hill billy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fill my .308 cases to about 1/8" from the top and have not had any issues with seating 155 Scenars with my Redding dies. </div></div>

My 155 scenar load come up just about 1/2 way in the neck, goes crnch big time. Slow steady pressure prevents excess pressure on the seating stem and increases its life.
 
#17
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor N TN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I have a problem, I call the maker. I have 6 different sets of Redding Comp. dies. I've never had this problem.

Call Redding. </div></div>

+1, I have 1000's of rounds through several comp seaters without an issue. I wonder if you are bottoming out the sleeve at the top of the stroke.
 
#18
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

So a couple of points have come up that I'll address.

My post was in no way meant to slander Redding's reputation whatsoever. Frankly, I think I either got really unlucky or that my application of this die for compressed charges may not be the right tool for the job. I'm still undecided either way at this point but this thread has been good to think through a couple of different angles on this to address the issue.

Second, I use a fairly slow stroke once the seater engages the bullet. I try to keep a smooth and steady press action (Co-Ax press) to keep consistency between bullets and bullet marring to a minimum.

Lastly, the die is adjusted properly so the fixed outer sleeve does not come into contact with the press. Only the sliding sleeve under spring pressure comes into contact with the shellholder.

I will of course be contacting Redding about this as I did the first time around. With this being a second occurrence with an identical situation, you have to start looking at the process to see if it is flawed and not just a bad seater stem.
 
#19
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

Yeah look at the process. I've seated 25/26,000 bullets with my Redding 308 competition seater with no issues. I'm on my 15th eight pound jug of varget, my loads typically are 46.5 to 47 grains behind a Sierra 155 SMK, Winchester brass.

Doug, service rifle shooters could break a crowbar in a pile of sand.......
 
#21
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah look at the process. I've seated 25/26,000 bullets with my Redding 308 competition seater with no issues. I'm on my 15th eight pound jug of varget, my loads typically are 46.5 to 47 grains behind a Sierra 155 SMK, Winchester brass.

Doug, service rifle shooters could break a crowbar in a pile of sand....... </div></div>

Hmmm, interesting..... We should be experiencing similar issues if your data is correct. Any idea what the H20 capacity is of your fire-formed cases?

On a side note, I'm wondering if the Co-Ax presses increased force is somewhat to blame here. While I have been seating slowly, that last inch of press rotation does impart an incredible amount of force.

I have been using a 2" drop tube but think a vibrating platform might also be a good option if I decide to remain at 46.5gr of Varget..... Is anybody aware of such a device?

 
#23
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

Well, I spoke with an experienced technician at Redding and he confirmed that seating compressed loads with the competition bullet seating die is a known issue and specifically recommended against it. I asked if they had a % compressed limit and he said they would not suggest any compressed loads whatsoever.

He also confirmed what I perceived to be happening. The seating stem cracks and under pressure, expands to gall the side of the sliding sleeve building up a ridge of steel over time. Once the ridge becomes large enough, it will interfere with seating depth as the ridge will contact the bullet surface creating inconsistent seating depth.

Figured now that the problem has been troubleshot and confirmed, figured would post it back here for the masses at a later date.

My proposed solutions at this time are:
1. Try a Forster Micrometer seater die as suggested above
2. Reduce my charge if the Forster solution fails (which I really don't want to do as this load is perfect in every other aspect).

And a disclaimer, this thread is in no way meant to slam Redding in any way whatsoever. They make excellent dies for what they are designed for. As happens so often with users on this website, we choose to push the boundaries and experiment beyond stated specifications. As a result, unintended consequences happen which is exactly what occured here. No fault of Redding as they designed their die to a certain specification so if anything, it is my fault for exceeding those. My only gripe is it would have been nice to have included this disclaimer in their product brochure/instructions to know where the limit may lie.
 
#25
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

+1 on the Forster die with the micrometer. IMO they are the best buy for the money(just an opinion).

I have been loading for 35 years-I have never had any stem damage. And I do alot of BPCR seating that has powder compression.

You could probably chalk it up to bad luck?? It sounds like you know what you are doing. Although your load is a bit hot. But even at 10% over case capacity it should not be busting stems on the die. But I imagine you are busting up some of the powder kernels. Tom.
 
#26
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

There is probably a fine, or maybe course line between a "compressed load" and crushing gravel. I try to treat precision tools a little on the "easy" side. I saw a guy using his press to crack black walnuts once. I don't do that.
 
#27
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah look at the process. I've seated 25/26,000 bullets with my Redding 308 competition seater with no issues. I'm on my 15th eight pound jug of varget, my loads typically are 46.5 to 47 grains behind a Sierra 155 SMK, Winchester brass.

Doug, service rifle shooters could break a crowbar in a pile of sand....... </div></div>

I also discovered, upon further inspection, that your Winchester 308 cases typically have a bit more capacity (however small) than the Lapua 308 cases. In addition, the Sierra 155 SMK is a bit shorter than the Lapua 155 Scenar. I think both of those in combination are probably putting me over the line causing the problem. Sounds like you may be under the threshold given the number of bullets you've pressed without issue.
 
#28
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

+1 on the Forester die. I went through the Redding dies shooting high-power. Been there and done that. I think Redding used to have something up about not using them in a progressive press due to the soft stem. The Forester seating die hasn't had a hick-up with over 15,000 rounds through it. I think think I was around 2,500 rounds when the Redding gave up.
 
#29
Re: Broke my 2nd Redding Comp Seater Die!!!

This is a KNOWN, recurring problem among highpower shooters, with both 5.56 and 7.62 dies when compressing powder. It is not so much about a soft seater but the design is thinner. There are a few shooters who have had Redding machine the stem specifically for pointy and Very Low Drag bullets but they are not designed to seat against a compressed charge. Eventually the metal fatigues and snaps.

I recommend you send them to Redding for repair, sell them, and buy the Forsters. The Forster dies have a different angle machined into the seater.

You will be able to see the Redding seater contact area on your bullets (especially a moly-coated bullet) nearer the bullet point -- the Forster contacts further down the ogive and a little closer to the shank.
 
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