Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

[bodywerks]

So I shot some of this ammo through my Savage FCP-k and it proved extremely accurate - sub-moa all day long. They are using 69 grain Sierra match kings and winchester brass. COAL of 2.240
I am looking to work up a handload to match it so I shot 5 rounds through a chrony:
shot 1) 3060 2) 3081 3) 3114 4) 3071 5) 3081
That's an average velocity of about 3080fps
Well, I started with 24.5 grains of varget, virgin Hornady brass, Remington primers, and a COAL of 2.272...I would have gone shorter but I was already hearing a 'crush' sound of the bullet compressing the powder so I stopped there.
Here's the problem. That is nowhere near any of the reloading books max charge, but I am already compressing the powder slightly, and am showing signs of pressure(cratering in the primer and a stretched base) and only getting about 2825fps with only OK accuracy.
SO WHAT AM I DOING WRONG????
Is the powder burning too fast?
Is it because I used virgin brass(the buffalo bore stuff looks to be remanufactured brass)?
Am I using the wrong brass? Is winchester stronger than Hornady?
The reloading charts show varget as a powder capable of 3100fps with about 26 grains, but I don't see how one could stuff that much of it in there without massively compressing it. I also have IMR4064, which is a slightly slower-burning powder, but the granules are long and I can only imagine it compressing even more.
Sierra is showing Viht N540 as their accuracy load with 26.5 grains @3100fps. I am having a hard time finding that powder here.
Is there anyone familiar with it? Do you think it is my answer?
Thanks in advance...

 

[308sako]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

Deleted in protest

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

A) Varget and crunch pretty much go together
B) some of my Varget loads are more than 1/2 way up the neck
C) a drop column and/or a vibrator will allow the powder to self-compact
D) cratering of the primer may imply a couple of things

D.1) may bolts are not properly clearanced from the factory. A properly clearanced bolt will have that section where the case rests in the bolt flat all way in towards 0.001 or 0.002 from the firing pin (extended). Many factory bolts have significantly more clearance, and more importantly are "generously" radiused. Both allow the primers to show pressures signs before real pressure gets out of hand. {DO NOT USE THIS as justification to arbitrarily prodede upwards in the charge weight.}

D.2) some primers are thicker than others and can deal with the pressures better. The military primers, for example in 223/5.56 are thicker. You should migrate towards these for safety.

D.3) a better measure of pressure is the primer pockets opening up. If you can get 20 reload cycles from your brass, you are not operating at overpressure, no mater what the primer crater tends to indicate. 10 is on the edge, 5 is operating in the range of unsafe pressures. This implies that you need to keep careful and long term notes on your reloaidng regimine and results.

E) my 69 gr 223/5.56 load (AR15) has a very narrow window where it shoots best; only abut 0.15gr wide. I hae to be accurate on the scale and verify the scale is free from friction every time I attemp to load to this recipie.

E.1) use smaller charge weight steps when searching for good group sizes.
E.2) continue testing and refining until it all come together.

 

[bodywerks]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

The Savage is stock, 24"bbl+muzzle brake, 1/9 twist.
I know velocity alone does not depict accuracy. I have gotten several fine groups with lesser velocities, but we are talking on paper at 100-200 yards. At 500 meters, the slower the bullet the more the wind drift, etc., right? At those ranges, I have had better luck with faster, heavier bullets.
I also know that matching the velocity of a factory load will not necessarily net the same results on paper. But if I can match the velocity closely enough, I can work with the other parts(what powder to use, how far to seat the bullet, etc.). I assume that how abruptly the bullet is accelerated can affect how it travels down the barrel? like deforming too much or scraping copper off it and thus making it less stable?

 

[pacomdiver]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

try that same load using the winchester brass,it might make all the difference as winchester has more case capacity than the hornady brass. i load 25g of varget under 69g smks in winchester brass and cci primers. did you try to identify the powder they are using in their load?

 

[bodywerks]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

no. but i may buy another box and do just that. im on the hunt for some viht540 right now - i think that will be the powder i need. guess ill buy some win brass while i'm at it. thanks, and ill try to post updates/range reports...

 

[pdogdown]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

I wouldn't be suprised if it is 26.0g of Varget. That is a fairly universal accuracy node I believe and I also believe that is what Black Hills is using in theirs. Might want to google black hills loads and see what you find. Good stuff either way. I load to 26.0 and in new lapua brass and lc09 brass it is halfway up the neck and compresses a lot. Lyman lists max like 26.9 in their book I believe. I know I am under max and would be hard pressed to reach it in new brass. Once fired 26.0 should just barely be entering the neck with the types of brass I listed. Email me if you have load questions and I can send you a nice excel spreadsheet with tons of .223 data.

[email protected]
Justin

 

[pdogdown]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

+1 on the thoughts on Varget and crunch

 

[bodywerks]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

Thanks, Justin. I think I will dump the hornady brass in favor of some winchester or Lapua brass, get it chamber-fired with some quick 55gr loads, and work it up from there.
Still would like to get my hands on some Viht N540, though, although it would be nice to be able to stick with varget since it is my go-to powder for my .308 as well, and is more stable in these weird AZ temp swings!

 

[usmcsniperone]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

Be careful with the N540 I've used it in Highpower and it is very touchy. It will go from showing no signs of pressure to blowing out the primers in .5 grain increase. I've had great luck with 25 grains of Varget dropped down a 4 inch drop tube behind a Moly 75 a-max. Then They came out with Benchmark and I don't use anything else with my .223's. I'm using 23.4 grains with the a-max for F-class shooting right now. Just so happens I won the Odessa match last sunday with it. It meters awesome and is one of the Extreme powders so the temps. don't phase it like R-15 etc.

 

[bodywerks]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

Looks like it is more available as well - I'll see if I can snatch up a pound locally...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

One of the reasons I was using Ramshot powders was because they filled the case with greater density. My 75gr HDY HPBT Match Moly load was 26.5gr of Ramshot Big Game and it was compressed. My brass was nearly always Win. Very accurate.

My discontinuation with Ramshot Powders was a matter of local availability, and had nothing to do with their excellent performance.

Greg

 

[Kells81]

Re: Buffalo bore 'sniper' 69g .223 match - 3080fps!!!

I think your brass is screwing you. I was loading BHA and Win brass for my 308 but found a good deal on some nosler brass. Loaded a few with the same load and blew a primer. Backed the load down a full grain on the nosler brass. Same POI and same Velocity. And I have taken each loading out to 1k at the same time. Its pretty much spot on.


Have you taken one of the buffalo bore rounds apart and weighed the charge? Check see if its a ball powder I bet it is due to metering beter.