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Building my 1st AR15. SPR-ish gun. Update.. Looking for a trigger now?

B

BenY 2013

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 23, 2012
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SW Arkansas
So I am putting together my 1st AR. Right now all I have is my stripped lower. I have always like the MK12 SPRs, so I am wanting something like that but a good bit different now that I actually think about it.

Here are some things that I want:
16" .223 barrel, I know the MK12 is 18" but I want to keep it shorter. If someone could recommend a good barrel I'd really appreciate it. I would at least like it to shoot MOA.
I need a stripped upper as well. Recommendations? I am wanting to machine on the left side of the upper as well as bcg and make it a side charging gun. Tips? Dos? Don'ts? Have seen a DPMS upper that would allow it to be done on the right side because it doesn't have all of the things most uppers have on the right side(dust cover, etc.). But I like the idea of it being on the left side!
As I understand it accuracy in the AR is mostly dependent on the barrel and trigger. I am looking to do this as cheaply as I possibly can, so what would be a good trigger at a reasonable price?
Same goes for the BCG?

The purpose of this gun will be hunting, shooting steel and maybe some 3gun matches if I ever find a place close enough to attend. If a coyote or hog gives me a shot at 500yds I'd like to be able to make the shot with this gun. Steel quite possibly further.

I know it's a lot of questions. I appreciate any help I can get! Thanks!

Ben
 
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Here's my FrankenSPR...

IMG_2295_zpse2a2198a.jpg


Blackhole Weaponry 18" 5.56 barrel (easily MOA with 77gr Nosler, most 5-shot groups sub-MOA)
Surplus Ammo upper (free with barrel from SAA)
MI SS15G2 handguard
Surplus Ammo lower
PSA lower build kit with ACS-L
PSA BCG
SSA-E trigger

Shot it as far as 900yd, killed a whitetail very dead last fall.

I'm happy with the BHW barrel but you might look at a White Oak from Brownells.
 
My SPR-ish upper came from HCS. I don't know anything about the side charger set-up. You might want to give Kevin a call and check what they can do for you there.
I too wanted a 16" barrel and the Mod. 0 look. For the time being I've got it sitting on a pretty much stock 6920 lower. I'm running a Geissele 3-G trigger now but I may switch back to the SSA-E. Loving the Geissele stuff but I'll admit I'm no trigger expert.

B

IMG_1813.JPG
 
Both Kevin at HCS and Monte at Centurion arms have contract mk12 barrels and contract barrels cut back to 16" that shoot insanely well. I just torqued mine onto a JD forged upper and it shoots better than I can believe, often under .5 moa with mk262 or similar, and I know I'm not alone on that. Make sure your hand guard mounts very solidly and is stiff, and that's really all that matters. The CMC triggers are about $50 less than a geissele, and I highly recommend them. The Wilson or ALG triggers are well received also I hear and are even cheaper.
 
If you're going to machine your own side charger I'd go with a 40 dollar blem. upper from PSA or one of the other parts provider. No need to pay full price for an upper that is going under the knife. I've built on three PSA blem's so far and all have been fine with little or no defects detected other than a few smaller than pin head size white spots in the finish. PSA has spare M16 type bolt carries for about 70 dollars.
 
Here's my SPR'ish parts gun. It's simple and all pieces parts that I'd picked up over time. The el'cheap-o barrel will probably be replaced but time will tell. If it does it'll be a Krieger when the budget allows. Otherwise it goes bang and bullets go downrange when the trigger is pulled.

Magpul stock & grip, PWS buffer tube & buffer, Umbrella upper, Spikes BCG, AR Stoner 18" fluted bbl, Seekins lower, ACG trigger, Geissele Mk3 15" rail, Smith Ent Vortex flash hider, KAC 30mm scope mount, and Leupold glass.

photo1_zps6ded0c54.jpg
 
Get you a White Oak Armament barrel, a DPMS Low Pro upper and it will allow the mods that you want to machine. I have the same set on my 3 gun rifle, except in a 18" and the handle is on the right side. WOA done the machine work on my bolt carriers and machined my uppers for me. My WOA barrels all shot 5/8 and the prices are very good. Great people to deal with at WOA.
 
Thank you for all of the good information guys! I'll check into these vendors mentioned. What company is HCS, sorry I just haven't heard of them.

Glad to hear the CMC triggers are nice, I saw they were cheaper and was going to give them a look! Also anyone have any opinions of the JP triggers? They are also cheaper but get lots of good reviews.

BoilerUp and BillCh those builds you posted are exactly what I am looking to do! Awesome guns!

Ben
 
I know you stated you wanted 16 inches, but if you really want the accuracy down to 1 MOA at 100 yards, you really should look at the 18 inch MK12 that are available from BCM. I purchased a complete upper assembly and everything worked perfectly. It was simple to install onto the lower receiver group and the thing is super accurate, even for a semi-auto 5.56 mm platform. Just my two cents.
 
I like the price for the BlackHole Weaponry barrels. Is double the price really going to be worth it? (not being a smartass, I honestly don't know)

Also will the 16" not do everything an 18" would do? I thought the only difference would be some velocity loss?

Ben
 
Frankengun. Do it. Mine is an amalgamation of a carbine...DD 16" CHF, KAC URX 3.1, KAC irons, Geissele SD-C and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4...only recently I have considered changing a few things up, which has spun itself off into another idea altogether. I'm leaning towards a new build with a WOA 16" 1:7 Match barrel squeezed into a BCM4 upper for its tighter fitting extension and possibly parting out the remains of my other upper...The real question now is spend my return money on a can for it, or start building first...
 
These guys have a side charge set up that you might like, although I have not built with any of their stuff so I can't vouch for them.

LAR Grizzly OPS-4 AR-15 Side Charging Upper Receiver Review

I have bought barrels from Superior Barrels and been happy with the product and the customer service.
Compass Lake is another good company to work with.

All of my builds have used Vltor, but I have heard really good things about Precision Firearm Components and will probably use them for a future build
 
If you do machine it to be side-charged, please please please post pictures of the end product and the process if possible. I would definitely look into Accuracy Speaks if they are doing it, you don't want to lose necessary rigidity in the upper, that will hurt accuracy. You can probably lose some and be fine, but the question is how much?

A small note on the HCS/Centurion barrels, they are all pre-broken-in, as required by the SOCOM contract, so that saves some money as the barrels are not on the cheap end.
 
My 12.5 will do less then 3/4 at 100, what does the 18" have over a 16" other then some velocity. Remember the factory Remington 40X's in 20" barrels !!!
 
I built this Mod 0 style rifle in 300 BLK using a 14.5" barrel.
9978059863_f53b4a60fa_c.jpg


Going less than 18" will require some creativity for front sight options, especially if you want to keep the ability to run an Ops can on it at some point. Due to how far the Ops 12th reflexes back over the barrel, the front sight for a 16" barrel will need to be mounted on the forend rather than the barrel. I had to trim the top rail on mine to allow the front sight to fold down completely. I had the M4 cut at the front of the barrel cut a little further back (1.00" vs .700") to allow the Spikes Tactical alignment collar to sit further back for use with an Ops 12th 30 cal. can eventually:
9667389213_98a1ec0690_c.jpg


9667389865_d41b8d826f_c.jpg


Precision Reflex Inc. sells 16" barrels from both Douglas and Bergara set up for the Ops 12th brake and collar. Keep an eye on their site to see when they come back in stock:
http://www.precisionreflex.com/Products.aspx?CAT=4293
 
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FMJBT said:
I built this Mod 0 style rifle in 300 BLK using a 14.5" barrel.
9978059863_f53b4a60fa_c.jpg


Going less than 18" will require some creativity for front sight options, especially if you want to keep the ability to run an Ops can on it at some point. Due to how far the Ops 12th reflexes back over the barrel, the front sight for a 16" barrel will need to be mounted on the forend rather than the barrel. I had to trim the top rail on mine to allow the front sight to fold down completely. I had the M4 cut at the front of the barrel cut a little further back (1.00" vs .700") to allow the Spikes Tactical alignment collar to sit further back for use with an Ops 12th 30 cal. can eventually:
9667389213_98a1ec0690_c.jpg


9667389865_d41b8d826f_c.jpg


Precision Reflex Inc. sells 16" barrels from both Douglas and Bergara set up for the Ops 12th brake and collar. Keep an eye on their site to see when they come back in stock:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3752/9667389865_d41b8d826f_c.jpg
Click to expand...

That gun is awesome! Love the colors and that handguard is exactly what I am wanting to try and make! What are the specs on the gun if I may ask? I am not planning on using the ops brake. Something like it but not exactly! Hadn't given much thought to the iron sights, but I'd like a pair on the gun!

Ben
 
I bought an AR Performance 18" 4150CM fluted .223 Wylde chambered hybrid 5R melonited 3gun barrel for $289.00. They thread the muzzle at 5/8x24 which they claim increases accuracy. With standard Magpul MOE handguards, it easily prints MOA with all ammo I've run through it. They have 16" barrels, about 20 of them left. Jump on them. I think that left side charging weapons present problems when slung for a right handed person, unless it is a non static charger, like on an FAL.
 
Specs for the 14.5" Mod 0-ish rifle:

Upper:
-Palmetto State Armory stripped blem upper
-R-Guns Nickel Boron coated BCG
-Rainier Arms "Select" 14.5" SS 300 Blackout barrel (Made by Black Hole Weaponry)
-Precision Reflex Inc. Gen III carbon fiber forend (Plain version with no holes)
-Ops Inc. 12th brake in .30 cal
-Spikes Tactical alignment collar
-Precision Reflex SPR top rail
-BCM Gunfighter charging handle
-KAC 600M rear folding sight
-AIM Sports front folding sight (Cheap)
-Pride Fowler 1-4X24 Rapib Reticle 300 BLK scope
-Leapers/UTG QD rings (Cheap, and actually not too bad)

Lower:
-Stag forged lower
-Mil spec 6 pos. buffer tube with standard buffer/spring
-B5 Systems SOPMOD Bravo stock
-Rock River Arms 2 stage trigger
-Sierra Precision pistol grip
-LWRC Polymer trigger guard
-KZ end plate w/ 3 QD sockets


The Rainier /BHW barrels are pretty decent. This one groups at around 1.5 moa with Nosler 125 Ballistic Tips, but I haven't really done any load development to see if that can be improved upon. I've used their barrels in a few other builds as well, and while I've never seen phenomenal accuracy out of them, they do consistently all group at around 1 to 1.5 moa once you figure out what load they like.
 
Awesome thank you very much! If I may ask you one more thing, do you have any way to measure the outside diameter of the carbon fiber part of that handguard? I want to machine something similar to it if possible. I really appreciate it! Love the looks of the gun! It's making me want a 14.5" .223 and considering going 300BLK instead... Decisions decisions...

Ben
 
Thank you very much for your help!I am hoping to move forward with this very soon! I think I have myself talked into a 14.5" with a pinned brake in .223/5.56. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Will I be able to shoot to 500yds with that kind of setup?

Currently looking at BHW/Rainer barrels as everything else is out of my price range at the moment. I still greatly appreciate all of the help! Searching for a blemished upper to do the bolt mod on.

Ben
 
14.5" will get out to 500 yards, but the velocity loss will make it less consistent than the same load out of a 16" or 18" barrel. I took my latest 5.56 build (a 14.5" RECCE/SPR style) out over the weekend for it's first trip to the range. I have steel set up at 400 and 650 yards for the 5.56 rifles. My 18" SPR shoots 77 grain Noslers out to 650 with nearly boring consistency. In comparison, the 14.5" rifle shooting the same load is clearly running out of steam prior to reaching the 650 yard plate. It does pretty well at 400 yards, but somewhere in the extra 150 yards I'm pretty sure it's going subsonic and losing stability. Hits are all over the place at 650 yards with zero consistency. For a 14.5" barrel, I think a 300 BLK will actually deliver better long range performance than the 5.56. I'd suggest 16" for the 5.56, or going with 300BLK or 6.8 SPC if you're set on 14.5".

My 14.5" build with brake shield over the Ops 12th brake:
12605712044_aa9715c884_c.jpg


Better view of brake shield "Look Ma, no baffles!":
12605379513_f3ccb589cd_c.jpg
 
I appreciate the info! Most of the shots I would be taking would be inside of 200yds. I just want the capability to do 500yds if the opportunity arises. In the reading that I have done it seems as though the 300BLK can shoot supersonic load out around 500yds as long as the shooter is doing his part. I really like the idea of being able to go from subsonic to supersonic. I am most likely going to try and submit another Form 1 for a .308 can(my bolt action .308 needs it). The 300BLK would help justify that Form 1!

But one thing I am also considering is ammo price, while I still haven't done much research I am finding that the 300Blk is around $1 per shot, I need to look into the .223 and compare a little more.

Ben
 
My SPR is a WOA upper receiver (came w/ a BCG) w/ WOA 18" 1/7 twist SS barrel mated w/ a PRI 3d GEN tube. FH is a ACC. Lower has a Geissele DMR trigger.
Since this photo was taken @ a Precision Rifle class, I ditched the A2 stock for a collapsable using a CTR w/ LT RISR cheekpiece.
Along w/ the PRI tube, which replaced the original DD quad rail, the CTR/RISR combo makes for a lighter set-up w/ good LOP, and the RISR perfectly aligns my cheek and eye with the 2.5-10X Vortex in the ADM mount.

Unfortunately, my shooting skills are the limiting factor. I'll never exhaust the accuracy potential of this rifle.
With Norma's 77gn .223 Match ammo I'm grouping .75" @ 100yds. I found a handload using 70gn Berger HPs & Varget that put 5 shots into .50" @ 100yds, and 3 of those clustered into .33".

 
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Beautiful!^^^

So I have gone ahead and ordered a LPK for this build. It included a Magpul MOE stock which I plan on using a cheek riser with.

So now I am seriously on the search for a barrel, still wanting to get it as accurate as I possibly can. Looking at several companies right now.

Rainer Arms: "Match" and if it comes down to it "UltraMatch".
White Oak Armament: Just can't seem to find my 14.5" in stock...
Wilson Combat: Don't have a lot of info on them, several very good reviews though. Also they are in Arkansas, would love to support a relatively local company.

Still obviously open to any suggestions. I guess what kind of set this whole accuracy craze off was today I mentioned to one of my machinist/gun friends that I was putting together an AR and was hoping to see accuracy close to my and his bolt guns(1/2" to 3/4" not good to bolt gun standards, but we're both new). And he told me I couldn't do it, that pissed me off..so I told myself that I was going to prove him wrong. I know it is possible and I want to do it! Sorry for my rant, but I need your help! So any of these barrels gonna be able to do what I want? I know that there is more to it than just the barrel, but I gotta start somewhere!

Ben
 
Thanks, Ben.

Just a caution on the MOE. If you're going to run a collapsable stock AND a cheekpiece on it, you'll have to deal with charging handle interference when you retract it to load, or even just to lock the bolt back.

LT's RISR is designed to reciprocate back as the CH is pulled, then returns to position via a spring, so it's in the same place relative to the position you've set your stock at. If that's what you're looking for, then just order the CTR/RISR combo from LT and pick your color.

Be advised that one issue I've seen guys discussing who've used the RISR is its positioning of your head and eye relative to the scope height in the mount.
For me, on the WOA SPR above, I found that ADM's low 30mm ADM mount positioned the Vortex perfectly for my eye & cheek placement on the RISR. In other words, I don't have to bob my head around trying to get a clear pic in the scope. Thus, choosing the correct height mount for the scope is critical if you decide to use the RISR.

:cool:
 
Thank you for the heads up! I am planning on doing a side charging handle so the main charging handle shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Ben
 
Look at the rainier arms ultra match barrels. Well worth it. Cheaper than other "superior" barrels and they come with the same accuracy guarantee.
 
Same here. I got an 18" ultra SPR rifle gas on the way. Should be here next week. I have high hope after reading countless reviews and threads about folks raving that they are the best barrel in the market for the price. No price is t everything but I've been reading that they rival much more expensive barrels and are well worth the money. Beyond money comes the effort that you put into waiting for a good barrel, building it out, and testing range time. Expecting quality and unfortunately you may not get the quality can be a real kick in sac. I'm surely hoping that this ultra match barrel will not disappoint. But like I said from everything that I have read it should be quite impressive.
 
Ok so I have almost everything done. Went with an WOA 16" barrel, found a POF handguard, using a B5 Sopmod stock. Skipped out on the side charging mod for now, but will have one in the future!

Now my last thing is the trigger. I was going to tune the mil spec trigger, but saw some say that was a bad idea and could be dangerous. So I am on the lookout for a trigger for this precision rifle. Would a CMC work? Really like the looks and specs of their trigger. Or do I need to look into the Giessle?

Ben
 
I don't think you can go wrong with a Giessele. If you are trying to save money, get the G2S. Every one I have felt (seven or so) feels just like every SSA I've ever felt.

Another fairly inexpensive option is the ALG QMS trigger. Its a sister company to Giessele. The trigger pull is the same as a milspec trigger, but the break is much cleaner, no gritty take up. They are like $60.

Have fun!

Wes
 
I am seriously looking at the Giessele, yes they are quite expensive. But I have come to appreciate quality and that most times isn't the cheapest option. I am wanting a trigger that has a light weight 3-3.5ish pounds and that is going to last and hold up after years and thousands of rounds of fire.

I am not sure how people here feel about the "Ranger Proof" guy, but he runs CMC triggers and speaks quite highly of them. I will admit I am a complete noob when it comes to triggers, although I do greatly appreciate the no creep light weight triggers. Very important to have in my rifles!

Ben
 
Glad to hear the CMC are good to go! I really like the looks of the flat trigger they offer, still gonna keep an eye out for Geissele. But if the CMC is anywhere comparable I think I may save a few bucks and go with it!

Ben
 
Ben, I may have a Geissele trigger. PM me. I'll go through my bench this weekend once I'm back home.
 
Alrighty sent you a PM. I can't find any bad reviews on the Geissele so far. I really appreciate everyones help on this build. I am becoming addicted to ARs now.... Not a good thing for my wallet...

Ben
 
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