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Building my first AR for long range using 6.5 Grendel. Need information.

BadAtGuns

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 15, 2014
19
1
Hey guys!

I've been around guns most of my life and I'm a pretty good shot with carbine AR's, so I want to start getting into long range (600-1000+ yards) shooting. I've never built an AR before so I wanted this to be my first.

I have the lower planned out, but I have some questions about building a grendel upper.


1. Do I just need a 6.5 grendel bolt? Or entire BCG tailored to it?
2. Does anyone have experience with custom satern barrels? I was looking into ordering a 28" barrel from them, but not really sure what else to specify. What kind of twist would I be looking for? I'll be shooting 123gr factory bullets initially, but may get into hand loading down the road. What kind of twist should I look at? Also, with custom barrels like this, will standard AR-15 gas blocks and hand guards fit like normal?


Thanks for your time.
 
I went with Alexander Arms 24in. with Shilen upgrade and have been well satisfied. The Grendel industry has been having problems with out of spec barrels. Check out the Grendel forum and learn a little more before you pull the trigger. My advice is to buy an upper and build your own lower. My 24in. is a beast to handle and is very accurate to 1000yd, can't imagine a 28in. barrel. The round is very easy to load. I started with AA 123 lapua factory ammo and took off from there. Hope this helps and have fun.
 
No reason to go 28". 20 to 24" is fine. I shoot my 16" out farther than I ever thought I would.

1/8 twist is fine. There are plenty of sources for good barrels and 9310 bolts. I agree it's best to start with an upper or complete rifle from someone who knows what they are doing, as there are several nuances to making different cartridges work in the AR15.
 
If you're looking at Satern, buy with confidence. I had an 18", 1:8.75 twist 6.5G barrel that shot bugholes.
 
The Satern barrels with an AA licensed reamer are too accurate for many people to believe. I've shot them and watched others shoot them on the IPSC flagger at 700yds, and get bored. Basically shooting a 10" plate repeatedly in shifting winds at 700yds, ringing it time after time, to include new shooters.

If you can't find an AA complete upper...

Precision Firearms makes some top-end Grendel uppers with barrels from Krieger, Bartlein, or Lilja.

Lilja makes a drop-in Grendel barrel now as well.

JP has been making Grendel uppers/barrels for years and years.

J&T/Doublestar sells complete uppers.

The only parts that are different are:

Barrel
Bolt
Magazine

That is based on the premise that we are dealing with quality AR15 parts made to the Mil-spec or TDP, then if you want the most accuracy you can get, you will have to look at several other areas of the components to ensure consistency. The main parts I pay more attention to with a Grendel project are:

* Bolt: The bolt needs to be made by a machine shop and kiln who know what they are doing, not like what we've seen with most of the after-market 7.62x39 bolts. AA, Maxim, and Underground Tactical all use 9310 high grade steel bolts, made to certain dimensions. For starters, the bolt is longer at 2.810", with a .136" (-.003") recess. The extractor usually needs some tuning, and should be made from tool steel if you can get them that way. Some are tuned, de-edged, then nitrided. I chamfer/radius the ejector face so that you don't get right side magazine feed failure to feeds.

* Upper receiver: Face trued, billet if using heavy barrel (7075 T6 and Type III are givens no matter what I'm doing.) I also like tighter extension tunnels for accurate builds. JP uses a thermal fit extension to a very tight upper.

* Barrel extension: The extension needs to be held to much higher standard of dimensional uniformity and material specs. I then blend and polish the extension to the upper, removing any sharp edges that normally scrape your brass. Lilja uses BAT Machine extensions, which are then tumble-polished and de-edged significantly. Precision Firearms uses polished extensions with feed ramps that are ideal for the Grendel, and then has them Black-nitrided. I suspect JP has something peculiar for their extensions as well. AA is very particular about what kind of extensions they use, and theirs are made specifically for them according to their requirements.

* Gas system and recoil system: Depending on what barrel length and gas system length you use, there are certain gas port dimensions and carrier/buffer weights that will work better together, depending on the loads you use. With 123gr shooting medium-slow powders, there is a certain gas volume and impulse imparted on the bolt carrier group and recoil system. For accuracy, High Power smithing techniques are common throughout the shops that know how to make accurate guns, which means Red Loc-tite is going to be used to secure the gas block, and the extension will be bedded with Blue Loc-tite or some other compound. Someone here complained that they couldn't remove the barrel from their Les Baer rifle, even though it was shooting bug holes.

For my 16" MLGS with .078" gas port, I'm using a full M16 carrier weight, with an ST-T2 buffer (H2 weight), and a correct carbine spring.

For 18" MLGS, you might consider an H3 buffer and M16 carrier, an MGI RRB, or a JP SCS. Rifle buffer works well too there.

For 20" .094" gas port RLGS, the rifle buffer works fine with a rifle extension tube, and many of the carbine buffers work with the carbine extensions. The JP tuned flat wire springs work well too with the right buffer.

I can't see what region you live in, so I'm not sure where to point you in terms of barrel length for a 600-1000yd target AR15, but I would generally advise the 20" if that is all you really want it for. I've shot my 16" out to 1200yds with surprisingly predictable results, but I was at much higher altitude, with 80 F temps, and low barometric pressure. I really need to install a 20 MOA cant scope mount, since I figured I "only" had a 700yd capable 16" carbine that is hitting steel with 85% of the energy of a .308, but from a smaller AR15 package that has half the recoil.
 
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im just bumping this post. I'm very interested to know what all gets said here.
 
I'm extremely pleased with mine. I'm getting 2.5 MOA at 700 yds and hitting steel at 1k is not a huge issue at my elevation on a good wind day. I use it almost exclusively as a hunting rifle in Idaho hence the snow camo. I'm running an 18" octagonal fluted bull barrel with rifle gas, a .936" SLR adj gas block, lite carrier, PRS with JP polished rifle spring and a buffer that has pleasantly surprised me - a Kynshot rifle buffer. Prior to buying the Kynshot I was running a JP SCS with extension and didn't feel like I had the perfect spring choice out of the JP spring kit. Figured I'd try the Kynshot and am extremely impressed thus far. Softens recoil impulse requiring less carrier velocity to reliability cycle. I was able to dial down gas an additional 1/8 turn after switching buffers.

Using a billet upper/lower, noveske 16.7" NSR, and a Geissele HS NM. LOVE this set up. And it's light enough to trek around the mountains comfortably while giving you a good 600 yard effective range for - in my case - Grey wolf. If hunting is the application that's about as far as I'd push it. Extremely accurate rig though with capability to launch mid 500 BC projos with enough mass for high KE on target out of the AR15 platform.

 
The Satern barrels with an AA licensed reamer are too accurate for many people to believe. I've shot them and watched others shoot them on the IPSC flagger at 700yds, and get bored. Basically shooting a 10" plate repeatedly in shifting winds at 700yds, ringing it time after time, to include new shooters.

If you can't find an AA complete upper...

Precision Firearms makes some top-end Grendel uppers with barrels from Krieger, Bartlein, or Lilja.

Lilja makes a drop-in Grendel barrel now as well.

JP has been making Grendel uppers/barrels for years and years.

J&T/Doublestar sells complete uppers.

The only parts that are different are:

Barrel
Bolt
Magazine

That is based on the premise that we are dealing with quality AR15 parts made to the Mil-spec or TDP, then if you want the most accuracy you can get, you will have to look at several other areas of the components to ensure consistency. The main parts I pay more attention to with a Grendel project are:

* Bolt: The bolt needs to be made by a machine shop and kiln who know what they are doing, not like what we've seen with most of the after-market 7.62x39 bolts. AA, Maxim, and Underground Tactical all use 9310 high grade steel bolts, made to certain dimensions. For starters, the bolt is longer at 2.810", with a .136" (-.003") recess. The extractor usually needs some tuning, and should be made from tool steel if you can get them that way. Some are tuned, de-edged, then nitrided. I chamfer/radius the ejector face so that you don't get right side magazine feed failure to feeds.

* Upper receiver: Face trued, billet if using heavy barrel (7075 T6 and Type III are givens no matter what I'm doing.) I also like tighter extension tunnels for accurate builds. JP uses a thermal fit extension to a very tight upper.

* Barrel extension: The extension needs to be held to much higher standard of dimensional uniformity and material specs. I then blend and polish the extension to the upper, removing any sharp edges that normally scrape your brass. Lilja uses BAT Machine extensions, which are then tumble-polished and de-edged significantly. Precision Firearms uses polished extensions with feed ramps that are ideal for the Grendel, and then has them Black-nitrided. I suspect JP has something peculiar for their extensions as well. AA is very particular about what kind of extensions they use, and theirs are made specifically for them according to their requirements.

* Gas system and recoil system: Depending on what barrel length and gas system length you use, there are certain gas port dimensions and carrier/buffer weights that will work better together, depending on the loads you use. With 123gr shooting medium-slow powders, there is a certain gas volume and impulse imparted on the bolt carrier group and recoil system. For accuracy, High Power smithing techniques are common throughout the shops that know how to make accurate guns, which means Red Loc-tite is going to be used to secure the gas block, and the extension will be bedded with Blue Loc-tite or some other compound. Someone here complained that they couldn't remove the barrel from their Les Baer rifle, even though it was shooting bug holes.

For my 16" MLGS with .078" gas port, I'm using a full M16 carrier weight, with an ST-T2 buffer (H2 weight), and a correct carbine spring.

For 18" MLGS, you might consider an H3 buffer and M16 carrier, an MGI RRB, or a JP SCS. Rifle buffer works well too there.

For 20" .094" gas port RLGS, the rifle buffer works fine with a rifle extension tube, and many of the carbine buffers work with the carbine extensions. The JP tuned flat wire springs work well too with the right buffer.

I can't see what region you live in, so I'm not sure where to point you in terms of barrel length for a 600-1000yd target AR15, but I would generally advise the 20" if that is all you really want it for. I've shot my 16" out to 1200yds with surprisingly predictable results, but I was at much higher altitude, with 80 F temps, and low barometric pressure. I really need to install a 20 MOA cant scope mount, since I figured I "only" had a 700yd capable 16" carbine that is hitting steel with 85% of the energy of a .308, but from a smaller AR15 package that has half the recoil.

Excellent read ...I just received a SCR--11 Grendel and look forward to range time. BTW Im hoping to purchase one of JP's Grendel bolts to try out mine came shipped with a AA and what I have read s a very good bolt.

Any input on different Grendel bolts from other companies who make them?
Thanks
 
I'm extremely pleased with mine. I'm getting 2.5 MOA at 700 yds and hitting steel at 1k is not a huge issue at my elevation on a good wind day. I use it almost exclusively as a hunting rifle in Idaho hence the snow camo. I'm running an 18" octagonal fluted bull barrel with rifle gas, a .936" SLR adj gas block, lite carrier, PRS with JP polished rifle spring and a buffer that has pleasantly surprised me - a Kynshot rifle buffer. Prior to buying the Kynshot I was running a JP SCS with extension and didn't feel like I had the perfect spring choice out of the JP spring kit. Figured I'd try the Kynshot and am extremely impressed thus far. Softens recoil impulse requiring less carrier velocity to reliability cycle. I was able to dial down gas an additional 1/8 turn after switching buffers.

Using a billet upper/lower, noveske 16.7" NSR, and a Geissele HS NM. LOVE this set up. And it's light enough to trek around the mountains comfortably while giving you a good 600 yard effective range for - in my case - Grey wolf. If hunting is the application that's about as far as I'd push it. Extremely accurate rig though with capability to launch mid 500 BC projos with enough mass for high KE on target out of the AR15 platform.


That is one sick rig you got there...Wow nice build.