BUIS- do I need them or are they just for mall ninjas?

[Sterling Shooter]

When I miss, the bullet still goes in the direction that my barrel was pointed.

And if you are missing in a direction other than the one on which your sights are aligned, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, Graham the only thing we know for sure from a bullet strike is that is where the barrel was pointed. But, without sights, understanding where the barrel is pointed is tedious. In essence, the sight is mandatory since bore sighting is not practical. And if the iron sight can describe where the barrel is pointed, and it can, there may be scenarios where such a sight would be useful over other types, which is indeed the case. It's why the USAMU's SDM training is, for the most part, about properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment using the BDC irons as issued on the M4 and A4 rifle. But what do I know, I just teach the course.

 

[Graham]

BUIS- do I need them or are they just for mall ninjas?

But, without sights, understanding where the barrel is pointed is tedious. In essence, the sight is mandatory since bore sighting is not practical.

Sterling, you are arguing against your own position regarding fundamentals.

Because I once saw Bill Jordan shoot five aspirins off a table without ever using his sights.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Sterling, you are arguing against your own position regarding fundamentals.

Because I once saw Bill Jordan shoot five aspirins off a table without ever using his sights.

For most of us an intuitive understanding for where the barrel is pointed as practiced by exhibition shooters is not a viable alternative to sights.

 

[Graham]

For most of us an intuitive understanding for where the barrel is pointed as practiced by exhibition shooters is not a viable alternative to sights.

I'm not suggesting that everyone abandon their sighting devices.

I'm suggesting that, to be factually correct or incorrect when advocating a technique. a firearms instructor must first establish a consistent position on the subject.

Repeating isolated facts, without applying them to the shooting problem to be solved, is not instructing. Doing that is simply talking about shooting.

 

[timelinex]

A year ago or so, I went to the range with my AR and my batteries were somehow dead on the eotech. I was extremely glad I had some buis that day!

Sure, I could have gone home and it wouldn't of been the biggest deal. But when I go to the range, I'm usually excited to go and it would be a let down to go home 'empty handed'.

 

[Graham]

BUIS- do I need them or are they just for mall ninjas?

It's why the USAMU's SDM training is, for the most part, about properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment using the BDC irons as issued on the M4 and A4 rifle. But what do I know, I just teach the course.

You may want to brush up a bit, then, because I talked to the Lt. Col. who was in charge of USAMU training for line units west of the Mississippi, and he tells me differently.

Look, if a unit shows-up with M14s and only irons then that's not a bar to completion of the DM course because it only goes to 500 yards and the targets are huge. But the DM rifle is an AR, with bi-pod and ACOG, and a goal of the training is to teach a soldier what he should already know: How to use the enhanced capability of a free-floated AR as an optically assisted short-range precision rifle.

 

[tipper]

If you go to the range with a scoped rifle & it fails, you will likely be disappointed when you have to walk down to the 100 or 200yd target to see what the hell you just shot with your iron sights.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

So, I'm planning on using this gun for 1000+ shooting (with some closer, maybe some further). No, I'm not going to try and hold 80" with iron sights. There are a couple of causes I can see using a BUIS on a precision rifle. Some tactical matches have you shoot at really close in targets, and it would be much faster to use a RDS/BUIS for this. Secondly, you never know who or what you will run into while hunting, and making close self defense shots is not unheard of (albeit very rare).

As for the optic, I frankly haven decided yet. Looking at a SWFA 3-15, no idea on the mount/rings. I currently run a 10x fixed on my 300 win mag and find it a bit limiting, so I may put that scope on this gun, an get a new scope for it as well.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Any sighting system can fail, but I expect my BUIS to be the last to do so. Better to have a BUIS setup and not need it than to need it and not have it.

My 16" AR upper has a Bushnell AR Optics Drop Zone-223 BDC Reticle Riflescope with Target Turrets and Side Parallax, 3-12x 40mm.

My BUIS is GDT AR15 AR 15 Front and Rear 45 Degree Rapid Transition BUIS Backup Iron Sight, which necessitated that I replace the gas block with a BTE .937 Bore Rail Height Bull Barrel Gas Block, Black - BTE-BBGB in order to achieve the proper sight configuration.

Greg

 

[Redmanss]

OP, it sounds to me like a side mounted RDS or a JP sight would fit your needs perfectly. You're looking for close range snap aim and shoot, just to get you closer than simply looking down the side of the barrel would do for you. I've run the Leupold Deltapoint on a 45* mount on the side, and it works well on an AR. A good friend of mine runs the JP sight here and really likes it for 3-Gun: JP - Detachable Sights

Regardless of what you go with for your setup, get some good practice with it both dry and live fire, and I think you will find you can be VERY effective inside 100yds with good technique.

Sterling... I'm not going to argue with a brick wall (Graham said it best anyhow, but maybe you want to continue to convince the OP why he should drop his plans and shoot 1000yd Palma style), but I am going to say this for all readers in general: A person's post isn't about you. It's about them. If you aren't going to actually read and consider the wants and needs of the OP, then click on another thread and quit derailing theirs. I swear some of you need third grade reading comprehension skills remediation.

 

[dms416]

but I am going to say this for all readers in general: A person's post isn't about you. It's about them. If you aren't going to actually read and consider the wants and needs of the OP, then click on another thread and quit derailing theirs. I swear some of you need third grade reading comprehension skills remediation.

Amen to that

 

[nuclear_shooter]

OP, it sounds to me like a side mounted RDS or a JP sight would fit your needs perfectly. You're looking for close range snap aim and shoot, just to get you closer than simply looking down the side of the barrel would do for you. I've run the Leupold Deltapoint on a 45* mount on the side, and it works well on an AR. A good friend of mine runs the JP sight here and really likes it for 3-Gun: JP - Detachable Sights

Regardless of what you go with for your setup, get some good practice with it both dry and live fire, and I think you will find you can be VERY effective inside 100yds with good technique.

Sterling... I'm not going to argue with a brick wall (Graham said it best anyhow, but maybe you want to continue to convince the OP why he should drop his plans and shoot 1000yd Palma style), but I am going to say this for all readers in general: A person's post isn't about you. It's about them. If you aren't going to actually read and consider the wants and needs of the OP, then click on another thread and quit derailing theirs. I swear some of you need third grade reading comprehension skills remediation.

I really like the idea of a small RDS. The Mega MKM has a set of keys at 45° so all I'll have to do is put a piece of rail there and put it on. On the budget I'm looking at, one of the Bushnell RDS's was looking mighty fine: Amazon.com: Bushnell Trophy Red Dot First Strike 5 MOA Red Dot Reticle Riflescope: Sports & Outdoors

 

[bogeybrown]

I really like the idea of a small RDS. The Mega MKM has a set of keys at 45° so all I'll have to do is put a piece of rail there and put it on. On the budget I'm looking at, one of the Bushnell RDS's was looking mighty fine: Amazon.com: Bushnell Trophy Red Dot First Strike 5 MOA Red Dot Reticle Riflescope: Sports & Outdoors

I have no first-hand experience with either of them, but in the same price range, the Vortex Sparc was something I was considering before I broke down and spent the money on the T1:
Amazon.com: Vortex SPARC Red Dot Scope: Sports & Outdoors

Again, just another option in that price range, but it does at least come with a variety of mounts which makes things a little simpler.

 

[GlockBlock]

This whole pointing the barrel business seems a bit asinine. On most shots your barrel is not pointed where the bullet will land. But your sighting system, whether it be optic or otherwise should be.

 

[Will_Power]

Title really says it all. Rifle is a precision large frame AR, not for combat (fun/matches/maybe hunting only), but one never knows I suppose. I was looking at the 45 degree offset sights and red dot sights, but is this really something I should put on my gun? Do most guys just put these cause they look cool/because Chris Costa told them to? Normal BUIS probably won't work as I wasn't planning on using a QD optic mount (rifle still in progress). I'm not *too* worried about a few more ounces on a gun that will probably weigh 12+ lbs.

C'mon now, everybody knows the mall ninjas and tactical Timmy's have all moved onto 45 degree offset micro red dot sights. BUIS are nothing more than has-been technology now!

 

[nuclear_shooter]

C'mon now, everybody knows the mall ninjas and tactical Timmy's have all moved onto 45 degree offset micro red dot sights. BUIS are nothing more than has-been technology now!

Hehe should have read further down the thread, talked about the advantages of a 45° RDS

 

[Redmanss]

I haven't run the Bushnell, so I can't speak for it. I have run the Leupold DeltaPoint, Burris Fastfire II and various Doctor sights though. Doctor was best for clarity, Burris best for value but it has only rode my Browning Buckmark pistol. I wasn't that impressed by the DeltaPoint for the cost, even on .mil discount, but this was their older model a couple years ago. I've heard they updated them recently.

If it's in your budget (~$250), take a look at the Burris Fastfire III. They have a couple nice features that can come in handy: FastFire - rifle scopes, handgun scopes, hunting scopes by Burris Optics

 

[usmcmk12]

BUIS are for mall ninjas.