F T/R Competition Bull barrel vs Varmint barrel for 1000 yd. F-class matches (300 Win Mag) ?

[longrange51]

Replacing the worn out barrel on my Savage 110 Model 10 FCP HS Precision in 300 win mag. Shooting F-class 1000 & 600 yard matches. The old factory barrel is a varmint, 24". Considering replacing it with similar barrel, a Bartlein Varmint 28" barrel, or should I consider the Bartlein Bull 28" barrel?

The rifle I have is now is:
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/centerfire/long-range/110-fcp-hs-precision

The factory barrel has lasted a long time (3-4 years) and over 2500 rounds (light loads at around 2650 fps).

Thanks for your input.

 

[memilanuk]

Probably the first question is: do you want to continue shooting F-Open? Or would you rather shoot F/TR?

Cuz a full-tilt FTR load, running 200.20X bullets seated long in a .308 Win... run right about the same velocity as you've been getting from your .300WM, albeit using a 28 or 30" barrel.

But it would involve replacing the bolt head as well - not a big deal, in and of itself - and possibly retooling some or all of your reloading setup.

If you're shooting mostly for fun, and still use the .300WM as an actual field rifle i.e. as a repeater then I'd probably say stick with the varmint contour so it doesn't end up too out of balance. If you're looking at it as a dedicated target rifle... I'd still kind of lean towards the varmint contour unless you're shooting from a dedicated front rest, or a specialty bipod made specifically for F-class.

 

[longrange51]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Yes, I want to continue shooting F-Open. I shoot with a dedicated front rest, a Sinclair Competition shooting rest. By field rifle you mean for hunting, right? By out of balance you mean the barrel being heavier than the stock? I've placed lead weight etc in the stock to reduce recoil so it should be balanced pretty well with a bull barrel. I don't plan on using this rifle in the field much as it's going to weight about 20.5 lbs with the bull barrel. I wondered if it was a big deal to customize the stock to fit the larger bull barrel. And I wondered if the HS precision stock could handle a bull barrel. I don't want to mess up the harmonics by putting a heavier barrel in the factory stock if it wasn't meant to be. I hoped the bull barrel would be better for 60 round matches than the Varmint as it may be less affected by heat.

 

[memilanuk]

Opening up the barrel channel a little using a dowel rod wrapped with sand paper isn't big deal. If you end up having to open it enough to where you're going thru the fiberglass shell inside the channel... that's probably not a Good Thing

Are you going with a pre-fit barrel with a nut, or a custom-fit shouldered barrel? The longer thicker shank on the latter can make a significant difference in weight (1/2 lb or more).

The heavier barrel will help a bit with the heat... but you're burning a ton of powder for the relative performance. It's going to get hot no matter what, just a matter of degree (no pun intended )

If the gun already has weight added in the back, and you're shooting off a front rest, then I'd be less concerned about the whole balance aspect. Something else you might consider for recoil reduction might be a Hart RAD 2A.

For 28" and under, you'll probably be fine as far as the stock and action are concerned. Taking a full bull barrel longer... I'd personally have some concerns doing that on a factory repeater action that is open top and bottom; I'd be worried about it maybe flexing with all that weight on the end. I know people do it, supposedly without issue, but me myself I'd rather not.

 

[longrange51]

When you say I'm burning a ton of powder for the relative performance, can you elaborate please. You mean because it's a heavier barrel it will require more powder?

It will end up being a 26" Bartlein barrel (please see attached the description). It is pre-fit barrel, with a custom "Bugnut" to bolt it on.

I do have a mercury tube and lead weight in the stock with a pachmyer buttstock pad, so recoil isn't bad. I actually looked at the Hart RAD recoil system you mentioned and almost bought that one previously, reviews were great but I think I didn't have the $ at the time.

What do you think of the pre-fit barrel I'm getting? Thanks again for your input!

 

[308pirate]

When you say I'm burning a ton of powder for the relative performance, can you elaborate please.

it means that there other cartridges that equal or surpass the 300 Win Mag in performance with reduced recoil and far less powder.

 

[memilanuk]

When you say I'm burning a ton of powder for the relative performance, can you elaborate please. You mean because it's a heavier barrel it will require more powder?

No... what I mean is that depending on what bullet you're using (I don't think you ever did say), I'm getting very similar performance out of a .308 FTR gun, burning 42-44 gn of powder driving a 200.20X or 200 Hybrid @ somewhere between 2600 and 2700 fps depending on the barrel length, the individual barrel, powder lot, etc. My 28" Bartlein that I shot @ the FCWC last year ran @ 2610 with 43.7 of Varget, and my 28" factory barrel this year ran 2670 using 44.8 gn of N140. There's a lot of F/TR shooters running 30-32" barrels going 2700+ - personally I ran into pressure problems trying to hit that higher node with the 200 Hybrid and H4895 a barrel or two back, but that might have just been that particular tube.

Unless you're running something like B230 Hybrids @ 2650... . it kind of defeats the purpose of running in F-Open when you're barely keeping up with the .308 guys.

 

[longrange51]

OK, I understand where you're going now. I've been shooting the B215 and B210's at ~2650 fps with ~74.0 & ~70.0 gns H4831SC. But that was with a barrel that was shot out; I just hadn't realized it yet. When the barrel was younger, I used to get B210's to ~2650 fps with 68.5 gn H4831SC; and 208 ELDM's to 2878 fps with 76.8 gn H1000. So, yeah, it is a whole lot of powder even with a newer barrel to get a decent velocity. But the ballistic coefficient of the B215 is 0.691! Not sure what the 308 BC's are. I'm interested in further thoughts you have.

 

[longrange51]

it means that there other cartridges that equal or surpass the 300 Win Mag in performance with reduced recoil and far less powder.

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you.

 

[memilanuk]

OK, I understand where you're going now. I've been shooting the B215 and B210's at ~2650 fps with ~74.0 & ~70.0 gns H4831SC. But that was with a barrel that was shot out; I just hadn't realized it yet. When the barrel was younger, I used to get B210's to ~2650 fps with 68.5 gn H4831SC; and 208 ELDM's to 2878 fps with 76.8 gn H1000. So, yeah, it is a whole lot of powder even with a newer barrel to get a decent velocity. But the ballistic coefficient of the B215 is 0.691! Not sure what the 308 BC's are. I'm interested in further thoughts you have.

The 200.20X falls between the 210 VLD and the 215 Hybrid as far as BC / performance. So a 308 running a 200.20X at similar speeds to what you run your 210 & 215 loads at would be about a quarter minute inside the 210, and about 3/4 minute outside the 215 (assuming 10 mph full value wind)... the 208 load is another critter entirely, and more along the lines of what I'd expect from the 300WM. I've ran 215 Hybrids around 2800 from a 25" Rock Creek barrel, so you should be able to get that pretty easily from a 28".