I just want to know what my options are to get my bullet closer to the lands. I used a Hornady Overall length tool and found that in order for my 208 A-Max to touch the rifling, the overall length had to be 3.62". That actually fits in the mag well, but can the barrel be cut down/remachined to better fit max recommended length or do I just set the bullet out further. This rifle shoots under 1 MOA, but I would like it to be a little better. I just dont know what my options are.
Gunsmithing Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
- Thread starter 909er
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Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
Another thing, we have a Rem 700 Milspec 5R that shoots .308. It shoots fantastic and it consistently shoots .50 MOA and many times better. I checked it and found that the 155 A-MAX sits at around .010 off the lands. If setting the bullet that close to the lands has helped this rifle, how would I get the same results out of my WinMag shooter that has .28" jump?
Another thing, we have a Rem 700 Milspec 5R that shoots .308. It shoots fantastic and it consistently shoots .50 MOA and many times better. I checked it and found that the 155 A-MAX sits at around .010 off the lands. If setting the bullet that close to the lands has helped this rifle, how would I get the same results out of my WinMag shooter that has .28" jump?
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 909er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want to know what my options are to get my bullet closer to the lands. I used a Hornady Overall length tool and found that in order for my 208 A-Max to touch the rifling, the overall length had to be 3.62". That actually fits in the mag well, but can the barrel be cut down/remachined to better fit max recommended length or do I just set the bullet out further. This rifle shoots under 1 MOA, but I would like it to be a little better. I just dont know what my options are.</div></div>
Yes, it can. It's called having the barrel set back. The Gunsmith measures the amount of erosion, adds what he wants to as far as 'cleaning up the lands' then cuts that much off. He then re-cuts the chamber with a throat to match the bullet of your choice. He also cuts off the tenon re-cuts and re-threads that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 909er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want to know what my options are to get my bullet closer to the lands. I used a Hornady Overall length tool and found that in order for my 208 A-Max to touch the rifling, the overall length had to be 3.62". That actually fits in the mag well, but can the barrel be cut down/remachined to better fit max recommended length or do I just set the bullet out further. This rifle shoots under 1 MOA, but I would like it to be a little better. I just dont know what my options are.</div></div>
Yes, it can. It's called having the barrel set back. The Gunsmith measures the amount of erosion, adds what he wants to as far as 'cleaning up the lands' then cuts that much off. He then re-cuts the chamber with a throat to match the bullet of your choice. He also cuts off the tenon re-cuts and re-threads that.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
First thing I would so is seat them out longer. An added bonus is that you can possibly use a little more powder and get some more velocity. If your willing to do the added load development. If it won't shoot anything then, thats when I would look at having the barrel set back or rebarreled.
added: Max length from the manuals is not really what you want to be using for the best accuracy. The max length will be determined by what fits into the mag, the bullet jamming into the lands, or the bullet falls out of the case.
First thing I would so is seat them out longer. An added bonus is that you can possibly use a little more powder and get some more velocity. If your willing to do the added load development. If it won't shoot anything then, thats when I would look at having the barrel set back or rebarreled.
added: Max length from the manuals is not really what you want to be using for the best accuracy. The max length will be determined by what fits into the mag, the bullet jamming into the lands, or the bullet falls out of the case.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
how are you coming up with the .28" from the lands when you said at 3.62" you were touching the lands? personally, (assuming 300 win mag) i'd load to 3.6" and find a powder/weight that works good.
how are you coming up with the .28" from the lands when you said at 3.62" you were touching the lands? personally, (assuming 300 win mag) i'd load to 3.6" and find a powder/weight that works good.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
Absolutely, find a powder/weight that works good.
Absolutely, find a powder/weight that works good.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how are you coming up with the .28" from the lands when you said at 3.62" you were touching the lands? personally, (assuming 300 win mag) i'd load to 3.6" and find a powder/weight that works good. </div></div>
I was loading my rounds at the books recommended 3.340" overall length. I then used the Hornady OAL tool using my 208 A-MAX bullet and found that in order for the bullet to lightly contact the lands, its overall length was 3.62" long, so the differance of 3.340 and 3.62 is .28". I figured that was quite a bit of jump. This particular rifle is a factory built Rem 700 XCR Tactical long range that shoots .300 WinMag. My brother and I are very new to the reloading/shooting world but we both read alot and ask alot of questions. We have a chronograph, so load development wont be a problem. If it fits in my mag well, I will load it up. 3.62 will fit and feed without problems. Thanks guys for all the advice!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how are you coming up with the .28" from the lands when you said at 3.62" you were touching the lands? personally, (assuming 300 win mag) i'd load to 3.6" and find a powder/weight that works good. </div></div>
I was loading my rounds at the books recommended 3.340" overall length. I then used the Hornady OAL tool using my 208 A-MAX bullet and found that in order for the bullet to lightly contact the lands, its overall length was 3.62" long, so the differance of 3.340 and 3.62 is .28". I figured that was quite a bit of jump. This particular rifle is a factory built Rem 700 XCR Tactical long range that shoots .300 WinMag. My brother and I are very new to the reloading/shooting world but we both read alot and ask alot of questions. We have a chronograph, so load development wont be a problem. If it fits in my mag well, I will load it up. 3.62 will fit and feed without problems. Thanks guys for all the advice!
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
My Criterion barreled Savage .300 WM is the same. I have to seat at 3.604" to ne .020 off the lands. I went with a CIP length Accurate mag system to have a repeater. The gun now shoots 1/2" groups, where it was 1.5" at the 3.4" oal.
My Criterion barreled Savage .300 WM is the same. I have to seat at 3.604" to ne .020 off the lands. I went with a CIP length Accurate mag system to have a repeater. The gun now shoots 1/2" groups, where it was 1.5" at the 3.4" oal.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
9 times out of 10 it's better to cover the gap with reloading.
Reasons not to are:
-Cost in general or for any of the following things
-You'll need to shoot factory ammo accurately at times (official uses)
-The gap is too large to work with (yours probably isnt, depends on bullet choice)
-You can't/won't remove the barrel (gun design/receiver strength)
-You can't rotate the barrel (rollmarks/front sight/gun design)
-Barrel would end up under 16" and you cant/wont SBR the gun
9 times out of 10 it's better to cover the gap with reloading.
Reasons not to are:
-Cost in general or for any of the following things
-You'll need to shoot factory ammo accurately at times (official uses)
-The gap is too large to work with (yours probably isnt, depends on bullet choice)
-You can't/won't remove the barrel (gun design/receiver strength)
-You can't rotate the barrel (rollmarks/front sight/gun design)
-Barrel would end up under 16" and you cant/wont SBR the gun
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
909er,
In a second post here, I'll second what most of the other posters have said and that is to first find the best, most workable load you can by reloading and see if that works first.
I had a 30-06 that had about 2" of erosion in the bore. I could not seat the bullet out to meet the lands. But, the rifle still shot around MOA. It shot best when I put the bottom of the bullet right at the shoulder.
909er,
In a second post here, I'll second what most of the other posters have said and that is to first find the best, most workable load you can by reloading and see if that works first.
I had a 30-06 that had about 2" of erosion in the bore. I could not seat the bullet out to meet the lands. But, the rifle still shot around MOA. It shot best when I put the bottom of the bullet right at the shoulder.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
Thanks guys. Its funny, both my brother and I have Rem 700s that shoot WM and they shoot almost identical. Both rifles respond the same way when we change powder/quantity/bullet style/weight. We finally ended up with 70.9grains of RE22 and a 190 grain SMK and both rifles shoot 1 MOA or better. Now, we opened up a can of worms by purchasing this Hornady OAL tool and we may end up changing things yet again with OAL experiments. Oh well, we are having fun figuring this shit out anyways. Again, thanks for all the helpful words.
Thanks guys. Its funny, both my brother and I have Rem 700s that shoot WM and they shoot almost identical. Both rifles respond the same way when we change powder/quantity/bullet style/weight. We finally ended up with 70.9grains of RE22 and a 190 grain SMK and both rifles shoot 1 MOA or better. Now, we opened up a can of worms by purchasing this Hornady OAL tool and we may end up changing things yet again with OAL experiments. Oh well, we are having fun figuring this shit out anyways. Again, thanks for all the helpful words.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
I enjoy experimenting with loads myself. It's amazing sometimes how the smallest change can have a drastic affect on the group size.
I enjoy experimenting with loads myself. It's amazing sometimes how the smallest change can have a drastic affect on the group size.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 909er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing, we have a Rem 700 Milspec 5R that shoots .308. It shoots fantastic and it consistently shoots .50 MOA and many times better. I checked it and found that the 155 A-MAX sits at around .010 off the lands. </div></div>
I too have a 5R Milspec but no way can I get any bullets that close to the lands and still have enough bullet in the neck to keep them from falling out.
My rifle has shot as small as .191" at 100 yards with a 175 gr Nos Custom Comp, even with a massive "head start" of just under .200". Go figure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 909er</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing, we have a Rem 700 Milspec 5R that shoots .308. It shoots fantastic and it consistently shoots .50 MOA and many times better. I checked it and found that the 155 A-MAX sits at around .010 off the lands. </div></div>
I too have a 5R Milspec but no way can I get any bullets that close to the lands and still have enough bullet in the neck to keep them from falling out.
My rifle has shot as small as .191" at 100 yards with a 175 gr Nos Custom Comp, even with a massive "head start" of just under .200". Go figure.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
909, head over to the reloading area, and there are a bunch of posts reflecting use of the 208AMAX there, including a broad range of OAL.
You might try the old benchrest trick of shooting groups with different powder weights, to find a good spot, then varying the OAL to fine tune that. On most of the good BR guns, a change as small as .010" can make a huge difference in group size. That's why in that game, guys use micrometer type seating dies, it is that important to manage small changes.
FWIW, I have a 300WM with the opposite issue, it was chambered with a more hunting oriented reamer, for like 180 grain hunting bullets. To shoot long 208's or the scenars, I can't go long, or the bullet is jammed in the lands. If it was accurate there, which it is not, I have the issue of pulling the bullet, and dumping powder in the action. I did find that the AMAX liked a little jump to shoot best though, so all is not lost for you.
909, head over to the reloading area, and there are a bunch of posts reflecting use of the 208AMAX there, including a broad range of OAL.
You might try the old benchrest trick of shooting groups with different powder weights, to find a good spot, then varying the OAL to fine tune that. On most of the good BR guns, a change as small as .010" can make a huge difference in group size. That's why in that game, guys use micrometer type seating dies, it is that important to manage small changes.
FWIW, I have a 300WM with the opposite issue, it was chambered with a more hunting oriented reamer, for like 180 grain hunting bullets. To shoot long 208's or the scenars, I can't go long, or the bullet is jammed in the lands. If it was accurate there, which it is not, I have the issue of pulling the bullet, and dumping powder in the action. I did find that the AMAX liked a little jump to shoot best though, so all is not lost for you.
Re: Bullet is .28" from the lands. What to do about it
Again, thanks guys. I remeasured my MAX OAL in my REM 700 using the 208 AMAX and found it was 3.66" I set up my bullet dies to install them at 3.65 OAL. I must admit, it made a huge differance. Anyways, I realize my post has morphed into what should be in the reloading forum, so I will sign off on this issue in this section. Thanks guys.
Again, thanks guys. I remeasured my MAX OAL in my REM 700 using the 208 AMAX and found it was 3.66" I set up my bullet dies to install them at 3.65 OAL. I must admit, it made a huge differance. Anyways, I realize my post has morphed into what should be in the reloading forum, so I will sign off on this issue in this section. Thanks guys.
