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F T/R Competition Bullet Seating - Wax or no wax ?

tridiumk

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 25, 2014
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Shooting a 338 Lap... i used to lube the bullet before seating, but i went away from doing that, not sure why, just did.

So, do the 1000 yard bench rest shooter tend to WAX the bullet before seating??? Or, is WAX inappropriate and should another type of lube be used ?
 
father froggy says use imperial sizing wax to lube the inside of the case neck with a Q-tip. I don't because it makes the powder stick to the inside of the case neck. but i do clean brass with stainless steel media.
 
I also clean with stainless steel media. It leaves my case necks too clean, and causes noticeable differences in seating force required to seat a bullet, leading to more fliers than I'd like. I now dip all my case necks in Redding's Imperial dry neck lube. No concerns about it gunking up powder.
 
interesting. I clean my cases in an U/S cleaner, they come out pretty clean, but i do notice sometimes the bullets can vary in their seating tension when they go in. The procedure i use is perfect, with all the correct tools including neck turning. I assume there is just a slight bit of gunk in some that hasnt quite come off in the U/S cleaner... perhaps i should be using a better U/S solution, i might switch to Hornady cleaner...
 
Test it against non lubed and let us know if you see any difference in long range performance/group size. I use too do it but not so much any more... it did seem to help with inconsistent neck tension and aging brass necks... before I started annealing. I got low ES numbers with and without lube which is why I stopped doing it.
 
I also clean with stainless steel media. It leaves my case necks too clean, and causes noticeable differences in seating force required to seat a bullet, leading to more fliers than I'd like. I now dip all my case necks in Redding's Imperial dry neck lube. No concerns about it gunking up powder.

I noticed the same thing.

That's a good option. I have some but never tried it yet.


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I also clean with stainless steel media. It leaves my case necks too clean, and causes noticeable differences in seating force required to seat a bullet, leading to more fliers than I'd like.

Just curious... how did you go about correlating the variations in seating force to fliers?

I now dip all my case necks in Redding's Imperial dry neck lube. No concerns about it gunking up powder.

I got some of this stuff a while back... seemed like I got more on the outside of the necks from residual sizing lube than inside, even with what seemed like a thorough wipe down. Did you add a separate step to tumble sizing lube off?
 
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milanuk said:
Just curious... how did you go about correlating the variations in seating force to fliers?

To be honest, all anecdotal. When I first switched to stainless media with the squeaky clean necks, my scores seemed to dip a little and it seemed I had a few more unexpected 9s. Once I started using dry neck lube, my scores seemed to go back up to my expectations. Of course, it can be all psychological, but it made me feel better so I keep doing it.

milanuk said:
I got some of this stuff a while back... seemed like I got more on the outside of the necks from residual sizing lube than inside, even with what seemed like a thorough wipe down. Did you add a separate step to tumble sizing lube off?

Yeah, after I resize I tumble in corn cob for 10 minutes to get the lube off. I now use Hornady One Shot spray, but I used to use Imperial. The Redding dry neck lube comes in the container with those little ceramic balls, seems to coat the neck fairly evenly inside and out, I don't mind it on the outside, looks to just be graphite.
 
To be honest, all anecdotal. When I first switched to stainless media with the squeaky clean necks, my scores seemed to dip a little and it seemed I had a few more unexpected 9s. Once I started using dry neck lube, my scores seemed to go back up to my expectations. Of course, it can be all psychological, but it made me feel better so I keep doing it.

Seems like 95+% of what we do anymore falls under this category ;) I've been looking at going back to 'lo-tech' - minimal sorting, prepping and fussing with things trying to 'improve' them. Smoothing out the neck seating operation is one that I am still interested in.


Yeah, after I resize I tumble in corn cob for 10 minutes to get the lube off. I now use Hornady One Shot spray, but I used to use Imperial. The Redding dry neck lube comes in the container with those little ceramic balls, seems to coat the neck fairly evenly inside and out, I don't mind it on the outside, looks to just be graphite.

I don't think it 'hurt' anything... just made handling loaded rounds pretty messy. I was curious whether you used corn-cob (quick turn-around, but potential for dust, pieces in the flash holes) or wet stainless for tumbling the lube off, since it sounds like you already use the wet tumbling initially.

The stuff I have is from NECO... believe it uses stainless BBs rather than ceramic, but its probably six one way, half-dozen the other ;)
 
Did you add a separate step to tumble sizing lube off?

maybe i'm doing things wrong... i do the following:

1. Anneal
2. resize/deprime
3. neck expand
4. neck turn
5. chamfer
6. CLEAN - ultrasonic
7. clean primer pocket
8. load
 
Dip your bullet in the dry lube before you seat it instead of dipping your necks in it. After seating, wipe the round with a paper towel to get any that was above the neck line.
 
Quote Originally Posted by nhm16 View Post

To be honest, all anecdotal. When I first switched to stainless media with the squeaky clean necks, my scores seemed to dip a little and it seemed I had a few more unexpected 9s. Once I started using dry neck lube, my scores seemed to go back up to my expectations. Of course, it can be all psychological, but it made me feel better so I keep doing it.
Seems like 95+% of what we do anymore falls under this category I've been looking at going back to 'lo-tech' - minimal sorting, prepping and fussing with things trying to 'improve' them. Smoothing out the neck seating operation is one that I am still interested in.

Monte:

I think you and I have arrived at a similar place regarding 'simplicity' in handloading. All the more esoteric techniques have merit, each in and of its own. But taken together, they add up to an onerous sequence, and time vs benefit becomes a matter of opinion. My opinion favors doing only those additional steps which have a profound benefit. As for the rest, doing the bare necessities with genuine due diligence covers the remaining bases.

Of late, my reloading direction has homed in on the .223 for 250yd.

Tumble brass in walnut that has an occasional squirt of Flitz tumbler additive.
Resize/decap and recap.
Charge case using Hornady automated powder dispenser.
Seat projectile.
Wipe down cartridge exteriors with a soft cloth dampened in rubbing alcohol. My sizing lube is RCBS water soluble.

This is by far the simplest and most direct method I have found to produce clean ammo that doesn't degrade on the outside. My main concern is about keeping foreign matter out of my chamber.

The technique counts heaviest on good load development and seating depth testing. The rest counts on consistency in the basic assembly steps.

The net consequence is ammo that shoots 1MOA or better at 250yd in testing out of a box-stock Savage 11VT.

But this thread has gotten me interested in dry neck lube. If I do try it, my lube will probably end up being a concoction of graphite, paraffin, and if necessary, maybe some petroleum jelly content to aid in application. I really don't like the idea of getting petroleum distillates anywhere near a case interior, though. It would be applied to the bullet's bearing surface. Using paraffin and graphite means the what doesn't burn up is almost identical to powder fouling.

At the same time this whole seating lube discussion cuts against the grain of my 'most basic' approach to handloading.

Greg
 
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Monte:

At the same time this whole seating lube discussion cuts against the grain of my 'most basic' approach to handloading.

Greg

For me personally, i'm shooting 0.5 MOA or better, and so the most basic reloading i suspect is not going to suit. I take care in the neck turning and consistency to ensure the projectile releases conistently everytime, perfectly straight. But i would expect the variance in friction between different loaded rounds would be maybe a factor of 2.. perhaps in the grand scheme this amounts to 0.0000x% with 65000 PSI behind it...?
 
Someone should do some double blind tests on most of these minor tweaks in reloading. Much of what the Benchrest crowd does would not apply to tacticle shooting. I suspect the time wasted loading to benefit at the range is not worth it! Worry less and get out and shoot more and you'll have much more fun.
 
I suspect the time wasted loading to benefit at the range is not worth it! .

whilst i do agree with you, there are surely a relative number of people who enjoy the concept of reloading, and the tweaks at home between hunting trips is another way to enjoy the hobby?
 
I got to thinking about the graphite lube..... It is my understanding Carbon is the ultimate killer of barrels ????? Would this then suggest that graphite powder would tear the throat of the barrel ???
 
TLDR: this is F-class, not tactical.

Someone should do some double blind tests on most of these minor tweaks in reloading.

Always a good idea.

Much of what the Benchrest crowd does would not apply to tacticle shooting.

True... but as you may have noticed, this particular sub-forum is dedicated to F-class. Loading for this specific venue is often a peculiar blend of tweaking the fiddly bits for optimal performance along with loading in volume (some things that are great ideas for 50-100 rounds become unfeasible for 500-1000 round batches) and getting out and just practicing in the wind.
 
I got to thinking about the graphite lube..... It is my understanding Carbon is the ultimate killer of barrels ????? Would this then suggest that graphite powder would tear the throat of the barrel ???
One, my understanding of how carbon is a problem relative to rifle barrels is that it builds up and is extremely difficult to remove once reaches a certain point. In extreme cases people have reportedly damaged barrels trying to remove buildups that have become harder (due to heat & pressure) than the surrounding steel. Keeping buildups knocked down to reasonable levels usually avoids this issue. The carbon buildups are not abrasive to the barrel in and of themselves - but some of the cleaners used are.

Two, it's my understanding that the molecular structure of the compounds making up carbon deposits and graphite lube are fundamentally different. If or how that changes under 50-60 K psi and several thousand degrees Fahrenheit, I'm not qualified to say.
 
I accidentally found the the green Lyman's tumbling media leaves a nice film that makes for really low ES and very consistant seating feel...

Maybe an inch better at 600 yards in my 260.