Bullet weight suggestions for 6.5CM

[quikcolin]

Hey guys,

Day two of load development for my Stag10, 6.5Creedmoor. Not having much luck. I've been loading with H4350 and 140g Hornady ELD bullets, run a wide range of charges, and still getting 1.5-2" groups at 100M.

I know that H4350 is a gold standard powder for 6.5CM, so I was wondering if I should try a few more bullets/weights for my rifle.

Any suggestions is appreciated.

 

[XLR308]

The 123smk or custom comps are really easy to tune and worth a try.
From my initial testing with the Berger 130 Hybrids they shot well with a fairly wide accuracy node and range of charge weights and would also recommend those as an option.
I wouldn't get to hung up on using just H4350 and if you drop down to the 123-130 grain range give Varget a try or similar powders in that burn rate range.

 

[canezach]

Reloder 16 (I actually stopped using H4350 and switched all my 6.5 Creedmoor loads to RL16)
IMR 4451
Varget for the lighter bullets

If you want to try other bullets, have at it, but maybe your rifle isn't capable of any better. Maybe YOU aren't with that rifle.

 

[spife7980]

Why not give more details? From whats been presented I just have to assume youre just bad at reloading and shooting.

 

[quikcolin]

Why not give more details? From whats been presented I just have to assume youre just bad at reloading and shooting.

What other details can I provide? The charges today were H4350 in 40.2g, 40.5g, 40.8 and 41.1. Previously I tried a wide range. 35.6, 37.6, 39.6 and 40.5g. 40.5g gave me the tightest group, but just over an inch. So that’s what I based the charges today around. Although a new shooter, I have successfully cooked up a combo for my T3x .223 that puts single hole 5 shot groups together at 100m and .5” at 200m (if I do my part).

 

[BoilerUP]

41.5gr H4350 and either the 140gr ELD-M or 140gr Hornady HPBT, loaded to 2.81 COAL.

I know you have a gas gun, but this is a very modest load (the original 140gr Amax Match charge) and this charge with either bullet has shot well in all three 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned (Savage, Criterion, and PVA/Rock Creek barrels). If it won't shoot this, IMO something is wrong.

You might also try 38.0-40gr Varget under a 130gr Hybrid, 130gr ELD-M, 123 SMK, or 123ELD-M.

Spending $30 on a box of 140gr ELD-M ammo might help eliminate the reloading variable, too; 140gr Hornady Black from Academy Sports (if near you) is the same thing as Hornady American Gunner and also shoots pretty well for inexpensive factory ammo in my experience.

 

[quikcolin]

41.5gr H4350 and either the 140gr ELD-M or 140gr Hornady HPBT, loaded to 2.81 COAL.

I know you have a gas gun, but this is a very modest load (the original 140gr Amax Match charge) and this charge with either bullet has shot well in all three 6.5 Creedmoors I've owned (Savage, Criterion, and PVA/Rock Creek barrels). If it won't shoot this, IMO something is wrong.

You might also try 38.0-40gr Varget under a 130gr Hybrid, 130gr ELD-M, 123 SMK, or 123ELD-M.

Spending $30 on a box of 140gr ELD-M ammo might help eliminate the reloading variable, too; 140gr Hornady Black from Academy Sports (if near you) is the same thing as Hornady American Gunner and also shoots pretty well for inexpensive factory ammo in my experience.

Great help! My COAL on this load is 2.890. The Hornady manual says 41.5g is the max load, hence the reason I kept under that mark. But I’m happy to try it out. Sounds like I need to grab some bullets.

Thanks everyone, back to the drawing board

 

[spife7980]

What other details can I provide? The charges today were H4350 in 40.2g, 40.5g, 40.8 and 41.1. Previously I tried a wide range. 35.6, 37.6, 39.6 and 40.5g. 40.5g gave me the tightest group, but just over an inch. So that’s what I based the charges today around. Although a new shooter, I have successfully cooked up a combo for my T3x .223 that puts single hole 5 shot groups together at 100m and .5” at 200m (if I do my part).

So you just went with the smallest group instead of identifying the middle of a node? Thats a good way to get nonrepeatable results.
Id suggest reading up on the Optimal Charge Weight test


Done any seating depth work?
Typically I look for a stable location via ocw where your group center doesnt shift when going to the charge lower or higher than it and then reduce group size via seating depth.

 

[canezach]

What @spife7980 means when he asks for more details is how did you determine which load to use? Was it a ladder? OCW? Did you just decide on a random charge weight? What are your reloading practices? What's your neck tension? Are you crimping? There are a number of different factors that could lead to a bad load, so when we ask for more details, there's a reason!

And freaking Spife ninja'd me lol

 

[Bandit320]

I’m sure the previous two posts were somewhat in jest, don’t let them scare you off. Details on the rifle, accessories, and reload data, and shooting positions would help.

I’ve loaded 140 RDFs with both RL26 and RL16 for my brothers and nephews rifles and they both shot well under 1 MOA. The quickest thing you could do is let someone you know who is an expert shot have a go with it and see how they do.

Mike

 

[quikcolin]

What @spife7980 means when he asks for more details is how did you determine which load to use? Was it a ladder? OCW? Did you just decide on a random charge weight? What are your reloading practices? What's your neck tension? Are you crimping? There are a number of different factors that could lead to a bad load, so when we ask for more details, there's a reason!

And freaking Spife ninja'd me lol

I’m not crimping. I chose the smallest group from round 1, and then built off that. Running +\- .3g in both directions to see if things tightened up. Which until about 2 minutes ago that was I thought the correct process to determine your ideal load was ??‍

 

[quikcolin]

I’m sure the previous two posts were somewhat in jest, don’t let them scare you off. Details on the rifle, accessories, and reload data, and shooting positions would help.

I’ve loaded 140 RDFs with both RL26 and RL16 for my brothers and nephews rifles and they both shot well under 1 MOA. The quickest thing you could do is let someone you know who is an expert shot have a go with it and see how they do.

Mike

I appreciate that, Mike. Thanks very much. Not a bad idea. I’m not the best shot, and the recoil of the 6.5 CM has had its learning curve for sure! I’ve found I need to hold a stronger cheek weld and grip with the Ar10, as compared to my T3x in .223.

 

[canezach]

I’m not crimping. I chose the smallest group from round 1, and then built off that. Running +\- .3g in both directions to see if things tightened up. Which until about 2 minutes ago that was the correct process to determine your ideal load

The correct process actually isn't "this gave me the tightest group that one time everything happened to align". We're not looking for tightest group at this point. We're looking for repeatability. That load that shot 0.25" might be 2.25" the next day, as you're experiencing. Read up on OCW or ladder tests. What you'll see is groups impacting in the same spot over various charge weights. From there, you can adjust your seating depths to shrink the groups.

 

[HMRamateur]

My 6.5 gets better groups with the 143 eld x than it does with the 140 eld m

 

[spife7980]

I’m not crimping. I chose the smallest group from round 1, and then built off that. Running +\- .3g in both directions to see if things tightened up. Which until about 2 minutes ago that was I thought the correct process to determine your ideal load was ??‍

Its one way and can get you there fast but it can also lead to false conclusions.

I much refer to do a wider range of testing going methodically one step at a time. Take more shooting but Im fine with that as I can trust the data rather than secodn guessing if it was me or nature. More data can only lead to more informed conclusions. Basically good groups can be a fluke so you look for where the point of impact is stable between a series of charge weights and use that as the basis for your node. Seating depth then allows you to time the bullets exit to the barrel vibrations to get them to all exit at the same time and make the group small. But if the combusion isnt stable behind it then you can get a good group one day that doesnt repeat itself the next.


Maybe @Steel head can chime in with the chart showing how to read an ocw. My google fu is failing me now looking for it.
So for now all I have is this. If you took each charge weight that you fired at the individual targets, identified the center of each individual group (while disregarding group size) and then laid those all over top of one another you would be looking for something similar to this

Charge weight 3 and 5 are one step below and charge weight 4 and both impact at the same location as charge weight 4. This means that charge weight 4 would be the middle of your "node".

 

[Davehc130]

Hey guys,

Day two of load development for my Stag10, 6.5Creedmoor. Not having much luck. I've been loading with H4350 and 140g Hornady ELD bullets, run a wide range of charges, and still getting 1.5-2" groups at 100M.

I know that H4350 is a gold standard powder for 6.5CM, so I was wondering if I should try a few more bullets/weights for my rifle.

Any suggestions is appreciated.

I could not get ELD to group worth a crap in my guns.....by buddies gun stacks them.. go figure.....My best luck and I shot them in my 6.5 Creed and SAUM....Berger 130 OTM...Creedmoor 43 grains of H4350.....stiff load....work up to it in your gun

 

[Tim_WNC]

Spending $30 on a box of 140gr ELD-M ammo might help eliminate the reloading variable, too; 140gr Hornady Black from Academy Sports (if near you) is the same thing as Hornady American Gunner and also shoots pretty well for inexpensive factory ammo in my experience.

^ this

 

[Steel head]

Its one way and can get you there fast but it can also lead to false conclusions.

I much refer to do a wider range of testing going methodically one step at a time. Take more shooting but Im fine with that as I can trust the data rather than secodn guessing if it was me or nature. More data can only lead to more informed conclusions. Basically good groups can be a fluke so you look for where the point of impact is stable between a series of charge weights and use that as the basis for your node. Seating depth then allows you to time the bullets exit to the barrel vibrations to get them to all exit at the same time and make the group small. But if the combusion isnt stable behind it then you can get a good group one day that doesnt repeat itself the next.


Maybe @Steel head can chime in with the chart showing how to read an ocw. My google fu is failing me now looking for it.
So for now all I have is this. If you took each charge weight that you fired at the individual targets, identified the center of each individual group (while disregarding group size) and then laid those all over top of one another you would be looking for something similar to this
View attachment 7143140

Charge weight 3 and 5 are one step below and charge weight 4 and both impact at the same location as charge weight 4. This means that charge weight 4 would be the middle of your "node".

You pretty much nailed it.


If your just shooting shorter distances then picking best group work fine but if your shooting any kind of distance then it’s usually not the way to go unless you’re feeling lucky.

 

[spife7980]

You pretty much nailed it.


If your just shooting shorter distances then picking best group work fine but if your shooting any kind of distance then it’s usually not the way to go unless you’re feeling lucky.

You dont have a copy of the graph? Who the heck was it then.

 

[Steel head]

You dont have a copy of the graph? Who the heck was it then.

It was Keith Richards

 

[Feif64]

I run berger 130 otm over 42.3gr h4350 unsupressed and 41.9 suppressed and get .5 inch groups with my rpr
Tried 140 match burners but couldn't get them to group well past 300 yards

 

[RRG]

I had good results with 42 grains of H4350 with Hornadys Amax. This was before the ELDs replaced the Amax in 6.5. I know this is over Hornadys max
Charge weight but, there is not any signs of overpressure at all, not even close.
But, you can’t get ELD’s to shoot then you should try something else. Maybe the Sierra 142 gr, shoots lights out for me.
I’ve aleays been of the opinion that if you can’t get a Sierra bullet to shoot well, then there is something wrong with the rifle. Just my 2 cents.