Bulletproof question

[Geno C.]

Odd question, I know. I’ve dug around a little on the web for an answer but haven’t really found a good answer. I’m going to be making or having made a vault door that I would like to be able to stop a 223 or 308 round at 10-20 ft. I can probably go with a thickness of around 6-12” if needed but no need to build a 12” thick if a 2 or 4 would do the trick.

It’d like it to be able to handle a really hot house fire for 1-1/2 to 2 hours.

The fire resistance part seems easy. The bulletproof, not so much. Anymore able to point me to some tests that proved what is needed at such close range. Everything I find is body armour related.

 

[W54/XM-388]

A front plate of AR500 would probably take care of it, especially if you are having a door custom made, you could see if they can use that as the front facing plate. Some of the higher end doors may already come with pretty hard steel to begin with, sometimes layered with ball bearings, glass and secondary plates to defeat drills, the main challenge would be .308 AP but a good plate should stop that.

 

[Geno C.]

I assumed it would have to be ar500 or similar. But how thick?

 

[Alphatreedog]

You can buy sheets of AR500 or AR 650 . Couple sheets of drywall for fire proofing .
Waterjet should be able to cut to dimension and not mess with temper/hardness
Could use a couple sheets of wonderboard also I believe , for fire resistence .

 

[Alphatreedog]

Half 8nch will stop .308 .

 

[cornhusker86]

Browning uses 12 ga. steel for their safes. Not bulletproof, but with sheetrock, it is fire resistant for up to an hour if memory serves. In your case, 2 half inch plates with a couple of inches of sheetrock sandwiched in between should be ample.

 

[Geno C.]

Half 8nch will stop .308 .

I have a 1/2” ar500 target I could test it on I guess. I know my buddies 30-06 put a couple pretty good pockmarks on it at 100 so I did t think it would be enough at real close range.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

@Geno C.
Are you needing to make it "bullet proof" in regards to the common criminal/thug or really bullet proof?

Tip: Be sure to design/build it with internal hinges because external hinges can be lanced with the portable handheld thermite torches.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Mwalex]

If I am not mistaken some of the companies that build gun safes sell stand alone doors.

 

[Alphatreedog]

I have a 1/2” ar500 target I could test it on I guess. I know my buddies 30-06 put a couple pretty good pockmarks on it at 100 so I did t think it would be enough at real close range.

I sure fuck8n hope it stops .308 or my body armor is effed . I guess it goes wothout sayin I'd be effed also .

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Please don't "test" any steel at close range with a rifle. I like you, so I'd rather you didn't stop any spall.
Just be sure, that 1/2" of AR500 will stop about anything you have mentioned. AR650 is better.

A pockmark is not a penetration. There is an industry standard of 1/8" I believe. Well that was the rules in IHMSA and NRA silhouette.

Cornhusher's idea is best yet.

 

[Geno C.]

Hi,

@Geno C.
Are you needing to make it "bullet proof" in regards to the common criminal/thug or really bullet proof?

Tip: Be sure to design/build it with internal hinges because external hinges can be lanced with the portable handheld thermite torches.

Sincerely,
Theis

Just common criminal, bulletproof. It’ll have external hinges but deadbolts on the hinge side also. That way if the hinges are cut, it still won’t swing open.

@armorpl8chikn I’d test it but not with my body anywhere near it. Thanks for lookin our for me though ?

 

[Alphatreedog]

.260 is rated to stop .762. In AR500. With LineX spall coating .

 

[Geno C.]

If I am not mistaken some of the companies that build gun safes sell stand alone doors.

There are companies that build them. I’d like to know what to specify before getting some quotes though. If their prices are way out of line, then I’ll build it myself.

 

[Geno C.]

.260 is rated to stop .762. In AR500. With LineX spall coating .

Got a link to any chart or test I could look at?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

This bank door retails for about 40k but for local pickup in Chicago for $6,900.

DIEBOLD Vault Safe with 330 Deposit Boxes | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DIEBOLD Vault Safe with 330 Deposit Boxes at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[metalicat]

Vault Doors Made In USA | Sportsman Steel Safes

Sportsman manufactures vault doors In Usa, We've been in business 45 years and have never had a vault door drilled open, pried open or lost to fire. Call 800-266-7150

www.sportsmansteelsafes.com

 

[Geno C.]

Hi,

This bank door retails for about 40k but for local pickup in Chicago for $6,900.

DIEBOLD Vault Safe with 330 Deposit Boxes | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DIEBOLD Vault Safe with 330 Deposit Boxes at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Sincerely,
Theis

While that would be nice, 8’ wide is a little too big for my opening...

 

[Geno C.]

Vault Doors Made In USA | Sportsman Steel Safes

Sportsman manufactures vault doors In Usa, We've been in business 45 years and have never had a vault door drilled open, pried open or lost to fire. Call 800-266-7150

www.sportsmansteelsafes.com

They have some bulletproof options

 

[Maggot]

Another lighter and less expensive option is Panzerholz. Very interesting stuff, a type of plywood made with phenolic resins and wood panels compressed under thousands of pounds of pressure. Its used in construction of armored cars and supposedly will stop a 308...no telling what w layers would do. I came into it for speaker building, because of the density its very acoustically neutral.

I did some search abut apparently because its 'bulletproof' its kept somewhat quiet. Heres a link to one source, perhaps Thesis has greater resource for information than I.

Delignit® Protection Systems
The life-protecting material

Bullet-resistant material as verifiably tested by the Firing Proof House in Ulm

• Highly compressed material
• No metal inlays
• High resilience
• Increases resistance to break-ins
• Long fire resistance period
• Explosion-resistant and protection against splinters
• Unproblematic disposal

Delignit® Protection Systems brochure

 

[Spblademaker]

3/8” AR 500 will easily defeat 556 at 20’, as I’ve run it at that distance. Didn’t test 308, though. I’d go with 1/2” which will give you lots more room for your fireboard.

 

[bkglock]

Be sure to use some kind of gasket on the door to prevent the intrusion of steam. A good friend had his guns in two safes in his basement, had a large fire in the basement in the same room as the safes. When the FD put the fire out, steam entered both safes and instantly rusted almost everything. Interestingly, a couple of the guns were in boxes and they were unaffected.

 

[Geno C.]

I would definitely use expanding seals if I build my own. Most of the ones I’ve looked at have seals as well

 

[FleetDaddy]

If I am not mistaken some of the companies that build gun safes sell stand alone doors.

Yes I had a Browning door specially made for my saferoom at a house I built. I also had a bulletstop of 3/4 AR500 at-a 30 degree angle with one foot of sand in a 48” tile 100 meter tunnel. I shot everything to 50BMG but did not allow AP to be used. After 3 years it had some very small dents.

 

[Jscb1b]

Please do not forget your combination! We shoot 1/2" ar500 with .300 win mag with pockmarks. The down side is it is heavy.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I too will attest to the suggestion of you checking out your local locksmiths. You would be very surprised at what some/many have 'in the back room' as certain companies 'upgrade' over time. You can get fantastic stuff for nearly scrap-value.

Highly recommend you talk to the managers. And as for that stuff that Maggot recommended..... I can also say that there are certain "holding facilities" that are made with the same stuff.

And that's all I'm going to say on that topic.

 

[Geno C.]

Another lighter and less expensive option is Panzerholz. Very interesting stuff, a type of plywood made with phenolic resins and wood panels compressed under thousands of pounds of pressure. Its used in construction of armored cars and supposedly will stop a 308...no telling what w layers would do. I came into it for speaker building, because of the density its very acoustically neutral.

I did some search abut apparently because its 'bulletproof' its kept somewhat quiet. Heres a link to one source, perhaps Thesis has greater resource for information than I.

Delignit® Protection Systems
The life-protecting material

Bullet-resistant material as verifiably tested by the Firing Proof House in Ulm

• Highly compressed material
• No metal inlays
• High resilience
• Increases resistance to break-ins
• Long fire resistance period
• Explosion-resistant and protection against splinters
• Unproblematic disposal

Delignit® Protection Systems brochure

Is there any domestic suppliers of this stuff? I would be able to skip the bulletproof need on the vault door and just do the wall that exposed to the rest of the house

 

[Maggot]

Is there any domestic suppliers of this stuff? I would be able to skip the bulletproof need on the vault door and just do the wall that exposed to the rest of the house

as far as I can find the link I put up above is the one and they are in Toronto, Canada. Try the link below and look up Albert Porter. He uses it in small quantities to build audio equipment. Ive never spoken with him personally but those I know who have say hes a good guy. Let me know what you learn for future reference.

About Us - PorterHouse Audio

www.porterhouseaudio.com/about.htm

 

[Alphatreedog]

North-american sources for "Densified laminated wood" or "transformer wood"?

Hey all, Do any of you know any sources of "densified laminated wood" or "transformer wood" or "panzerholz"? I don't need the exact brand name but...

advrider.com

 

[Geno C.]

Thanks guys. This is a project that I’m hoping to tackle when I get of the road in October so I’m starting the planning stage now

 

[Maggot]

North-american sources for "Densified laminated wood" or "transformer wood"?

Hey all, Do any of you know any sources of "densified laminated wood" or "transformer wood" or "panzerholz"? I don't need the exact brand name but...

advrider.com

Another possible source, or they might direct you to one, is below. Ive gotten some fine marine grade from them that is certified by Lloyd's of London. Now Jerry can rant about how much he hates everything British.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjx1pnTjrziAhWRct8KHYe0AsAQFjADegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcilvain.com%2Fcontact-us%2F&usg=AOvVaw2Tj0hRUeedacnP7JkGY1Pb

 

[Kickin45]

Not sure if it’s mentioned here, but make sure you Rhino Line 1/8” thick whatever steel door you go with, front and rear. It’s strong enough to cause the bullet to mushroom before going through it, which of course will change its penetration capabilities drastically.

 

[Geno C.]

Due to some friends lacking Instruction and common sense... I had 3/8" AR 500 shot with AR and AK74 with 7N6 at 15 yards... it leaves a little pock mark

In most places, folks are more concerned about 20V LIPO Tools to open a safe... after all I use an angle grinder to smooth out the pock marks on AR500

The desire to bullet proof the door isn’t to reduce that chances of break in. If I’m inside with need for it to stop bullets, I’m not worried about them stealing my stuff.

The room is what I call my vault room. Safest room in the house once a secure door is installed.

 

[Dougie308]

With respect to the bullets. Why? With respect to to fireproofing. Half in steel with refractory brick in between.

Odd question, I know. I’ve dug around a little on the web for an answer but haven’t really found a good answer. I’m going to be making or having made a vault door that I would like to be able to stop a 223 or 308 round at 10-20 ft. I can probably go with a thickness of around 6-12” if needed but no need to build a 12” thick if a 2 or 4 would do the trick.

It’d like it to be able to handle a really hot house fire for 1-1/2 to 2 hours.

The fire resistance part seems easy. The bulletproof, not so much. Anymore able to point me to some tests that proved what is needed at such close range. Everything I find is body armour related.

 

[acudaowner]

 

[Spblademaker]

Bad guy attempt #1: beat door and pry = failure

Bad guy attempt #2: pulls out M1 Garand and goes to town = failure

Bad guy attempt #3: yells, “Hey Kool-aid!” = leaves with your shit.

 

[Maggot]

That was really eye opening, thanks for posting.

Seems like my $299 Job Box is as good as a $1000 safe and a lot easier to move.

 

[ArmyJerry]

if you keep your shit in a big ass safe how you gonna get to it when the zombies show up in their kevlar

 

[jbuck88]

I went for the highest fire rating as that's all I hope my safe ever have to protect against. I have insurance for theft.