Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

[cdherman]

Built my own 7mm SAUM using Savage SA action. Shilen barrel, match grade stainless in 26" heavy sporter, custom throated to allow me to seat 180 VLD Berger to lands, assuming magazine max of 2.990 COAL.

Was very pleased that Shilen seems to have truely gotten the throat EXACTLY to what I wanted it, based on measurements with my Hornady OAL guage.

Seated the 180's .005 off lands initially. Cases are Remington, weight sorted, trimmed, deburred, FL resized on Forster Co-Ax. Seated with Forster Micrometer seating die. Did NOT turn the necks -- too lazy and have read that its not necessary in a standard throat diameter gun.

Researched powder and primer combos -- Decided to try H4831sc with CCI BR-2 initially.

Sarted with about 5 rounds to sight in. Cleaned after every shot. (nevermind controversy if that really matters...)

Started strings of 3 from 57 gr, 0.5 increments. Went to 61 gr. Cleaned after 6 and fired fouling round after each cleaning.

Conditions were not great, very hot so that I was always waiting for barrel to cool. And I am more jittery when hot...

Seems like all the groups were pretty much the same 1 - 1.25 inch.

Had hoped for better, even though I recognise that this is a new barrel. Its my first custom hand lapped barrel, and I am not sure what to expect or do next:

1) repeat the whole exercise, assuming that the problem is break in, combined with shooter (me) quality.

2) Try a different powder (H1000, or H4350), researched in detail as good choices as well, all in my stash....

3) try a different seating depth (VLD Berger are reputed to be finnicky about depth..)


Perhaps you should just tell me to buck it up and recognise that those posts of guys that get .25" groups from the get go are full of it.... Guess my fantasies had me in one of those dreams for once....

 

[turbo54]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

First off, breathe.

Secondly, you've gotta do Berger's .040" increment seating depth test.

Choose a middle of the road charge weight for this.

 

[clodhopper]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

You have a good grasp on how to improve, seating depth might prove to be biggest culprit. But it sure could be the powder too.
Most guys will never admit here 1- 1 1/4 group size (assuming 100 yard target). Personally I like to talk about the best groups, like when three go into one hole, and keep mum about the rifle/shooter real average.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

might just try some factory ammo to see how its shooting with a known quantity as well.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

Don't "throw in the towel", yet. I got my TRG-42, in 300 Mag, and didn't get the groups I dreamed of. Went through the "process", three times, and it's starting to come together. I'm below 3/4, at 100, now, and am working on it. One little "fricken" thing, will throw it off. Patience Grasshopper, is what I keep repeating, in my head. Seems like you put a nice package together. All ya have to do is find the right "formula". If this stuff was easy.........

 

[MALLARD]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

test further, shoot more rounds into a group

 

[1J04]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

As a confidence builder I offer this. Do Not Fret. Gained a shitload of knowledge off of here and have in the past few months applied it to approximately 500-600 Bergers from 115's in .257 to 210's in .30, which may not be squat compared to a bunch of these guys, but I'll tell ya this. Start those bastards atleast touching then follow the .040 seating test. You will find money, then ya get to play from there. I do 168's for my and two other 7MM's and they all do well with RL22. Give it a shot and check back in, would like to here what ya do and how it works.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

The VLDs are a finicky bunch. You might try a more standard bullet at first just to see what powders, etc your gun likes. Then maybe play with the Bergers some more as mentioned above.

 

[sclongrange]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

I had the same issues with the 168 vlds a few months back and at the end of a very frustrating day of trying several different charge weights and going thru Bergers 40k seating depth changes I was still getting about 3 inch groups at 300. I had a few loaded rounds left of the really short ones and decided to put them in my puller and stretch them out past the lands then reseat them jammed 5k. I figured I didn't have anything to loose at that point, and those really short rounds looked so ugly that even if they shot great I would be embarrassed if I were seen with them in my posession. Bingo, it cut my groups in half. Ultimately I ended up switching over to the 162 Amax because they shot just as well and cost substantially less. Jam those SOBs, it's worth a try. No joke, by the time I dialed in that 1/2 moa load I only had about 25 bullets left in my first box.

 

[cdherman]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SClongrange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had the same issues with the 168 vlds a few months back and at the end of a very frustrating day of trying several different charge weights and going thru Bergers 40k seating depth changes I was still getting about 3 inch groups at 300. I had a few loaded rounds left of the really short ones and decided to put them in my puller and stretch them out past the lands then reseat them jammed 5k. I figured I didn't have anything to loose at that point, and those really short rounds looked so ugly that even if they shot great I would be embarrassed if I were seen with them in my posession. Bingo, it cut my groups in half. Ultimately I ended up switching over to the 162 Amax because they shot just as well and cost substantially less. Jam those SOBs, it's worth a try. No joke, by the time I dialed in that 1/2 moa load I only had about 25 bullets left in my first box. </div></div>

Hate to jamb hunting bullets into the lands, as the bullet will pull sometimes and spill powder all over. Or at least that's what gets talked about. Maybe it only happens to folks that are running very loose neck tension.

Will likely try the .005 jamb and then run it out in .04 increments to .120 or so.

Occurs to me that I not as steady as I was 35 years ago as well (when I started reloading) -- need to perhaps invest in some better lead bags. That would cut down another source of "static" in the signal. I have a good smooth trigger squeeze, but sometimes the cross hairs just will not settle down, so I kind of "catch" the bullseye while going by. Probably source of .25 to .5" of my group size....

 

[sclongrange]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

Don't worry about pulling the bullets when jammin 5k. Ive jammed the Bergers 15k and still no change in length after removing them from the chamber. Also, 5k, 10k and 15k all shot about the same so I just ran mine at 5k. Ended up going thru about 4 boxes before switching to the amaxs. Although, I've been kinda missin the Bergers lately, may pick up box soon.

 

[stranded]

Re: Bummin... Need some experienced condolance/advice

Not knowing your experience level, you said it was hot. Were you using a mirage sheild on your barrel? How good are you at reading the mirage/wind? Do you have days when everything falls in place days when nothing goes right? Wait for a better day foreget the past. If you let it your gun will shoot.