Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

[Tactical30]

I cant really decide on what to get: Non-bushing or Bushing.

I have been reloading for about 3yrs now and ALL the calibers I have reloaded for have been with Non-Bushing Redding dies.

Recently I have had Precision Bolt Rifle (.300WM) built by Warner Tool and this is strictly a LR Target rifle (no hunting).

I want to get the most consistant and best accuracy I can with this rifle thru my reloading process but I dont know if I should stick to regular FL dies or go with the bushing set.

I know the bushing set you could play with neck tension. I dont Anneal but I moslt likely will start. I also dont turn necks either (another thing I might start doing with this rifle).

Will it hurt accuracy that much by not turning necks and just FL sizing your brass?

The way I have been reloading now with just FL sizing my groups are under 1-MOA out to 500yrds easy and 1MOA or slightly over the farther I go out. Is going the bushing route and turning necks going to drastically shrink my group?
<span style="font-style: italic">have not shot the .300WM Warner Tool build yet- this means all other rifles I have reloaded/shot with</span>

The ranges by my house are 100yrds-600yrds and a 1000yrd range an hour or so away. I will be shooting the 100-600yrd targets alot more because the range is so much closer.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

IF YOU WISH... you don't have to turn necks or anneal to use bushing dies. But I do use bushing dies on my bolt action rifles. I prefer the Redding "S" full length sizing dies, (considerably cheaper). FOR ME... the Comp sizing dies are a waste of money I could use somewhere else. I have two full sets of the comp dies. But if you can afford it and want them, I guess they are a good thing. But there is something good to the Redding Comp. Seater dies. I really like them.

As a reminder. You can neck only size with a full length die. You can't full length size with a neck only die.

Good luck in your choices.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

Another option you might consider is the Lee collet die. I know... it's Lee. But you would be amazed at the number of accuracy nerds that use this die. It was recommended to me by a BR guy that thinks .2's are for sissies.

The beautiful thing about this die is that it is NOT dependent upon neck diameter. The collet squeezes the neck around a mandrel so the min. dia is fixed. You can vary tension, by backing off the die a little, so you still have control.

Last time I checked runout on my loaded ammo, it was all .001" or less and my 300WM shoots very well when I lay off the triple espressos.

BTW, *I* think .2's are just fine.

John

 

[joemagee]

Re: Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

I really like the standard Redding S die, useing the correct bushing to size the neck and the under size expander just to hold in the depriming pin. Also like the Wilson in line bullet seaters.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

"I cant really decide on what to get: Non-bushing or Bushing."

I LIKE several things. One of which is the Lee collet neck die. It accomplishes all a bushing can do and does it much easier and in some ways does it better, IMHO. I had and have read of others having excellant control of "tension" with bushings but poor neck run-out problems that we don't have with the collet dies. It's my belief that changing OAL (bullet jump) is more effective than changing neck "tension" with tiny tweaks using bushings anyway.

I put tension in quotes because it really isn't bullet pull type tension. What most people mean is an interference fit with the bullet, meaning how much smaller the neck diameter is than the bullet. That certainly affects the pressure required to seat bullets but necks smaller than about 1 thou is meaningless for how tightly it grips the bullet.

Those who think the added seating effort with small necks is changing bullet grip/tension/pull with two or three or four thou undersized necks are kidding themselves. Any neck stretching greater than .001" (or less for small cases) simply exceeds the elasticity of the brass, permanently stretching the metal while the elasticity remains at a thou, or less.

Test me: Measure a seated neck, pull the bullet and measure it again. There will be so little difference it will be hard to measure no matter what size the unloaded neck diameter was.

I often read comments from those who say they tried and discarded the collet neck sizer because they "couldn't get more than about a thousant of neck tension." Actually, that's a very good thing for concentricity and concentricity is very good for accuracy!

 

[fish30114]

Re: Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

congrats on a new rig! It's always fun to sleuth one out and see what IT likes. Having said that, if you are just now buying dies specific to that rifle, get whatever floats your boat. IF however; you didn't have the caliber spec'd to some particular dimension, chances are the smith built it within SAMMI specs. If that is the case, you may find that a very basic set of full lenght sizing dies--set up to PFLR--will give you the best results. Even though a belted case, just set up your dies to move the shoulder minimally so you get a slight crush to a 'zero inerface' fit of cartridge brass to chamber. (zero interface is a term I saw from another forum, which he described as the point just shy of a crush fit, where the bolt closes easily and there is zero resistance felt, but it is known that there is not a lot of room between the case shoulder and the shoulder of the chamber)

Worrying about neck tension is way overdone IMO, I know benchrest guys, that while they know what there's is, they don't care if it's a thou this way or that, they always tell me, check the target, that's where you measure what works1

If I was buying dies for this rifle, wasn't sure which bullet I was gonna shoot, or might be shooting several different bullets for whatever reason, then I would spend the extra dough on a Micrometer Adjustable seating die, it just makes gong back and forth between seating depths with different pills so easy. On the sizing die, I'd just get a standard Forster full length sizing die, and heck, I might throw in one of the Lee collet dies later just to fool with, they are cheap. I can tell you for certain though, they DO NOT always minimize runout. I have several in various calibers that INCREASED runout with the Lee Collet.

Good luck on your rig and new loading for it!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Bushing or NON-Bushing Die set.- Other Questions-

I use the Redding type s neck sizing dies too, love them. I turn all my necks and then use the bushing die. I used to use lee collet dies but I seemed to have shorter brass life with them. Since switching to the Redding I haven't looked back, I cant say whether accuracy improved because most of my current loadings have ALWAYS been done this way so I have nothing to base my judgement on. I would like to think that it has helped greatly though, perfect, straight, uniform, clean ammo that looks like it was turned out of a solid piece of brass on a lathe gives me confidence.