From all I can gather the features on both of these scopes in FFP are basically identical. What I'm asking is is which one has better reliability in tracking and repeatablility. And also is the vortex warranty superior to bushnells? Who has had good luck with either and why?
Rifle Scopes Bushnell elite tactical 6-24 vs vortex viper 6-24 ffp
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Both of them have lifetime transferable warranties, but Vortex's is "no fault" (they fix anything but intentional damage) and their reputation for warranty service is better in the forums I read (here and elsewhere).
For ultimate tracking, and also great glass, have you considered the Sightron SIII 6-24x50? Most are second focal, but they just introduced a first focal model, which will probably be somewhere around $950-1000 street price.
For ultimate tracking, and also great glass, have you considered the Sightron SIII 6-24x50? Most are second focal, but they just introduced a first focal model, which will probably be somewhere around $950-1000 street price.
How is the sightron the superior scope in tracking and glass quality? I haven't done any research on them
I can't say that the Sightron is necessarily superior, because I haven't put those three side by side, but I can say it is an excellent scope (I own one) and I have never read a negative review of one. I had never heard of them before I started reading here and noticed they had a bit of a cult following. They are a US designer/importer and the SIII line is made in Japan's LOW factory, which is also where the Bushnell Elite comes from along with many other brands/models of scopes.
The scopes you're looking at are definitely great scopes in that class also (I don't own those, but do own the 3-12x44 FFP Bushnell, and have previously had the 4-16x50 PST in both SFP and FFP flavors). I just offer the SIII as worth comparing as well. Oh, Sightron also has a transferable lifetime warranty (and a good reputation for service), though once again Vortex may have the best warranty with their "no fault" basis.
The scopes you're looking at are definitely great scopes in that class also (I don't own those, but do own the 3-12x44 FFP Bushnell, and have previously had the 4-16x50 PST in both SFP and FFP flavors). I just offer the SIII as worth comparing as well. Oh, Sightron also has a transferable lifetime warranty (and a good reputation for service), though once again Vortex may have the best warranty with their "no fault" basis.
Well I love good customer service but if you
Can point me in the direction of the review that turned you onto them that made you purchase one I would love to give it a look.
And how has the durability been on your scope?
I've used all these scopes. My observations:
The Vortex has the best warranty out of all 3. Mine had had specks inside which they replaced quickly. Wasn't too impressed with the glass above 19x. Liked the illumination but never really needed it.
The SIII had the best glass and eye box easily. But It's a plain mildot and SFP.
I like the Bushnell GDMR and FFP. Glass was better than PST and less than SIII.
I had no problems with tracking on any of these scopes. I really don't have any issues with using of these scopes and comes down to preference. They all get the job done.
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There was no one review by itself, I just kept seeing praise come up. If you do a search you should find multiple reviews. The review below may also be interesting - note however that he seems to think the PST had better clarity than the SIII he had with it. My SIII has better clarity than probably any other scope I own, including a Nightforce. Some of this may be personal perception or slight build quality differences.
Affordable tactical scopes: the Vortex Viper PST vs the Sightron SIII | Shooting Reviews
I've only had my SIII for a couple months and haven't abused it. I haven't seen any durability issues and don't expect any. These aren't marketed as military/police tactical scopes and would not be my choice for truly severe use, but for most competition or hunting use should hold up fine. The appearance of build quality is right where I would expect for this price range, and subjectively to me is a tiny bit better than the Viper PST and about equal or a tiny sliver behind the Bushnell Elite. This is purely subjective with nothing to back it up, just an opinion. If I knew I was going to be really hard on a scope I would get a Nightforce, or a Vortex Razor (higher end line than the PST).
Affordable tactical scopes: the Vortex Viper PST vs the Sightron SIII | Shooting Reviews
I've only had my SIII for a couple months and haven't abused it. I haven't seen any durability issues and don't expect any. These aren't marketed as military/police tactical scopes and would not be my choice for truly severe use, but for most competition or hunting use should hold up fine. The appearance of build quality is right where I would expect for this price range, and subjectively to me is a tiny bit better than the Viper PST and about equal or a tiny sliver behind the Bushnell Elite. This is purely subjective with nothing to back it up, just an opinion. If I knew I was going to be really hard on a scope I would get a Nightforce, or a Vortex Razor (higher end line than the PST).
Thank you for your reply. So the new sIII model in ffp would best the best value of the three in your opinion?
That sounds great thank you so much for your help! And yes I have read in a few reviews as to concerns about the vortex durability. And that would be the only thing that could keep me away from it.
If you're doing ordinary civilian things I don't think you'll have any issue with any of these. If you are really extremely hard on gear I would look for a used Nightforce NXS instead of any of these. (But you will only find a well-used, second-focal-plane NXS at anywhere close to the price of these other scopes new.)
I really wanted the nightforce but I just can't tell myself that i need to spend 2 grand on a scope... That is just ridiculous.
But of course you are getting one quality piece of equipment
You can't go wrong with a PST. The Bushnell is nice but I would only get it with the G2 reticle. Sightron has good glass but the need to work on FFP, mil/mil and reticles.
For a couple more bucks you can get into a Bushnell DMR and the SWFA SS HD 5-20x50mm non-ill.
For a couple more bucks you can get into a Bushnell DMR and the SWFA SS HD 5-20x50mm non-ill.
I have the Bushnell and a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x42.
I love the Bushnell 6-24x50 for targets. 3.5-20ish would be so much better though. 6 is low, but not low enough. 24 is fine.
I have no real complaints on the Bushnell at its price point. I do wish it was $500 again though, like it was when I first got mine.
I love the Bushnell 6-24x50 for targets. 3.5-20ish would be so much better though. 6 is low, but not low enough. 24 is fine.
I have no real complaints on the Bushnell at its price point. I do wish it was $500 again though, like it was when I first got mine.
How much better quality is the SWFA or dmr?
I have all 3 and would rate Bushy, and Vortex the same, the S3 side parallax is very stiff on my scope, called them, they will fix but said it will take 2-3 months to get to it. Glass is about the same on all 3 to my eye.
Cant speak for the vortex because I have never owed one. I could only say what I have heard so I wont. However I do own one of the Bushnell 6-24 with G2 reticle and it is a damn nice scope for the money. I run DMR's on my comp rigs and it makes it nice that I can use the same reticle on some other rifles and save some money.
I've been researching this alot and I'm leaning towards the vortex.
The $300 or so price difference is worth it, IMO. I'm really starting to dig my SS HD 1-6x and will soon purchase the 5-20x. All the scopes mentioned in this thread will serve you well. Like I said above, you really can't go wrong with the PST. I'm kinda waiting for the new version(aluminum mag ring) to come out before I buy another. If the 2.5-10x32mm is any indication, the glass might be a bit better.
When are they coming out with the new model?
I don't know. And I don't know if there will be any difference or change in glass. I just found the glass on the 2.5-10x32mm to be really nice and am wondering if Vortex made some changes. Maybe one of our resident Vortex dealers can chime in???
I certainly wish they would!
i would go with the bushy just for the G2, from what i hear it is the best reticle out there. i plan to go with the 6-24x50 or the 3.5-21x50 DMR (just not sure if the DMR is worth the extra coin when it could go towards a XLR chassis)
Sightron has just introduced a FFP version of the 6-24x50mm scope with a mil-hash reticle, and mil turrets, answering all your wants. I don't know if you can buy that scope today, but should be able to within a few weeks, I would guess. Also, for 2-3 years now they have offered the 6-24x50mm scope with mil turrets (0.1mil) matching the mildot reticle. Of course in SFP and with that borderline silly basic army-style mildot calibrated at 24x, so the dots are HUGE. To me, not a tactical scope, but a good choice for entry into F class (my use) or more casual long distance shooting.
On the Vortex PST - the aluminum mag ring is a "running change" per an email I had with Vortex rep about a month ago. You can't predict which box will hold that version of the scope or the rubber-band mag ring version. I haven't seen anything claiming that the glass was changed or improved in connection with the mag ring change. The PST 6-24x50mm has had generally great reviews on glass quality, unlike the mixed reviews of the 4-16x50mm (which I've owned, and thought were marginal beyond about 13x) or the older SFP 2.5-10x44mm scope (also owned, also thought it was marginal to blurry at 10x). The brand new 2.5-10x32mm FFP has terrific glass quality, or at least my example does.
Will the sightron be around the same price point as the vortex I've basically decided against the bushy
Based on MSRP being $165 higher than for the SFP mildot model (LRMD/CM), my WAG is that the FFP 6-24x50mm Sightron SIII will be somewhere between $950 and $1050 for typical street price at an online seller with a moderate discount (like Opticsplanet). You might find a better price at some of the 'hide vendors, but I'm going beyond guessing at that point.
Here's the FFP scope:
Sightron Riflescopes SIII Series SIIISS624X50LRFFPMH
Here's the FFP scope:
Sightron Riflescopes SIII Series SIIISS624X50LRFFPMH
Does this scope have a zero stop I didn't read that anywhere?
The Sightron's do not have a zero stop unless it's a brand new and unlisted feature.
Oh well how much better is the glass quality compared to the vortex? Is it enough to make it worth getting instead of the vortex
The vortex is much better than the bushnell.
Sightron are SFP, not FFP. I don't know if I would say that the image quality is better on the Sightron but the construction (Japan for Sightron, Phillipines for Vortex) will be better for Sightron.
I have a sightron 3.5-10 and a leupold 3.5-10 m3 and would say that the sightron is an overall better optic.
Sightron are SFP, not FFP. I don't know if I would say that the image quality is better on the Sightron but the construction (Japan for Sightron, Phillipines for Vortex) will be better for Sightron.
I have a sightron 3.5-10 and a leupold 3.5-10 m3 and would say that the sightron is an overall better optic.
So Vortex is much better than a Bushnell made in a similar if not exactly the same Japanese plant as the Sightron which you claim would in turn be better due to its origin?
Anyway, I think my Bushnell 6-24x50 ET is very close, if not equal, to my SS5-20x50 as far as glass clarity/brightness.
I just sold my PST and before I did I sent it in to have some small debris on the lenses cleaned and had it back in a week all cleaned up and ready to go. I was wanting to upgrade to a better glass and it was between a nightforce f1 and a vortex razor. Because of the quality of the pst and the quick service I went with the razor. The tracking was great on the pst too. I found the glass plenty good enough. Biggest thing I found was it didn't have enough adjustment but I'm sure it was as good or better in its class.
The other thing to think about, and the final reason I chose the pst ffp mrad 6-24, is that it is very easy to resale them if u want to move up.
The other thing to think about, and the final reason I chose the pst ffp mrad 6-24, is that it is very easy to resale them if u want to move up.
That is pretty impressive I can't believe it would have better glass than a USO! How is that possible???!!!
That is a good point that they would be easy to resale
US Optics must be so expensive b/c of their durability. Glass quality Is nothing special....in my semi-informed opinion.
They both are great for the money. The G2DMR RET is a great way to go I also like the PST RETs also. I will say I prefer the Vortex PST turrets.
We sale both scopes so if we can be of help please let us know.
Mike CSTACTICAL
We sale both scopes so if we can be of help please let us know.
Mike CSTACTICAL
the SWFA glass is great... on par with 1600$+ scopes, the milquad is better then plain dots, but could be better... no one likes the parallax adjustment, its way to stiff and a PIA...
the DMR has better glass then any of the 1k$ scope, and is built WELL...
Wow that's very impressive but if I'm going 1300 for SWFA I might as well go a cheaper ffp nightforce at that point wouldn't you think?
i thought all the "cheaper" NF's are SFP... in the NXS line...
also, comparing it to my buddies NXS, i would say it is as clear, if not better...
also, u can find used Razors for 1600 ish... i would take that over any NXS or other sub 1800$ scope...
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I have heard excellent things about the razor. I really love the pst my only concern is the amount of adjustment it has in it
The cheaper FFP Nightforce is around $2400 for an NXS F1... not really in the same territory.
I think you just need to figure out what you really need or are willing to spend. Here's a simple breakdown, which mixes facts and personal opinion:
Viper PST 6-24x: very good quality, great warranty
has illumination and a fairly nice reticle design
to me, the quality feel is not quite equal to the SIII
65 MOA of adjustment
made in Philippines (I've read it has Japanese glass, I don't know)
SIII 6-24x:
basic scope without illumination, simple mildot reticle
to me, the quality feel is slightly better than the PST, though not quite at premium levels
warranty is lifetime and service reputation is good, but Vortex is probably ahead
100 MOA of adjustment, which is a huge difference if you need lots of elevation
made in Japan
SWFA SS 5-20x50 HD: $1300 without illumination / $1500 with, may find better deals on this forum for lightly used examples
glass quality (based on one I looked through) is at least as good as SIII and probably a tiny bit better
10 Mil turrets, if you care
100 MOA (or slightly more) of travel
to me, the construction quality feel is ahead of the PST and SIII
reticle comparable to PST
parallax adjustment is very stiff, sometimes almost unusable, to me this is a big issue
Lifetime warranty, very good service reputation
made in Japan
this scope is right on the edge of being a premium grade scope, or maybe it is one
I would expect the SS HD (and pricier models below) to be more durable than the PST or SIII if you are really hard on your scope
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50: $2000 (you may be able to find a discount)
5 or 10 mil turrets
130 MOA of adjustment
reticle options, with EBR-2B having windage dots
I haven't seen one in person, but have a 1-6x Razor and its quality is solid
requires 35mm rings
physically huge
made in Japan, Vortex warranty, etc.
premium grade scope
Nightforce NXS F1 3-15x50: $2400
less magnification than others you're looking at
premium grade scope
probably more than you need unless people are shooting back at you on a regular basis
That's my 2 cents.
Haha unless people are shooting back at me. I like that! Well ill be honest I really like vortex line of scopes I am just torn between the two. It will be going on a remington 700 sps varmint .308 and I would like enough elevation to atleast reach out to 800 yards. It will be on a 20 moa base and medium seekins rings.
A typical .308 Win load will need around 20-25 MOA elevation to hit at 800 yards. With a 20 MOA base you already have that, so the PST will easily have enough travel for that distance (in fact, the adjustments will be nearly centered for 800 yard shooting). If you were looking at over 1000 yards, or using a 0 MOA base, you would want to look up the required elevation and see if the PST would still have enough adjustment.
It's very rare that I get to a range out past 1000 and my 1000 yard target is only avaliable when my grandfather has just cut his hay! So 800 is my longest shot for most of the year. But 20 moa down to get it to zero. If my way of thinking is correct
That would leave 12.5 moa adj until the bottom of the moa range. Have you seem any problems with the scope at either extreme highest or lowest avaliable adjustment?
awesome break down! I wish I had read this before I went thru my "disappointing XRS experience" I am copy/pasting this in a folder for the future. Thank you for taking the time to break it down. i appreciate shooter's "two cents" more than marketing.
He really did take His time and did a great write up!
Of all the scopes mentioned so far in this thread the H/DMR is the best all around for the money IMO. I had 3 of them for a couple years and they all served me well with no issues whatsoever! Mine had exceptional glass as well. They can be found used for $1100- $1200 or thereabouts.
It does seem like a good set up. Thanks!
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