Buying a plane after retirement

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Northfl

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Jan 3, 2018
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#1
So, i am retiring in jan/ feb of 26.
I am still fairly young at 56 and thinking about getting my private pilots license shortly after

For the pilot guys here, i am thinking about getting a mooney super 21 after all the necessary things are finished.
Any pro's/ con's to the mooney. All research says they are fuel efficient and pretty fast for a single engine plane.
Other option may be a piper cherokee as there a lot of them used for trainers.
Really curious as to all of this at the moment anyways
 
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#2


My best man just bought a Mooney. He flies for AK Airlines and my father also, a ret. career navy/airlines pilot raves about how nice they are.

I've only got about 70 hrs on the sicks without a solo. So, my opinion holds absolutely no weight whatsoever. I can take off, nav VFR and land. Got the basics covered at least. :LOL:
 
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#3
Northfl said:
So, i am retiring in jan/ feb of 26.
I am still fairly young at 56 and thinking about getting my private pilots license shortly after

For the pilot guys here, i am thinking about getting a mooney super 21 after all the necessary things are finished.
Any pro's/ con's to the mooney. All research says they are fuel efficient and pretty fast for a single engine plane.
Other option may be a piper cherokee as there a lot of them used for trainers.
Really curious as to all of this at the moment anyways
Click to expand...
Mooney super 21 is a nice High performance aircraft. A retractable gear and adjustable prop aircraft typically not flown by new pilots. The Cherokee is a fantastic trainer and good for cross county travel under 500 miles.
 
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#5
One of my best friends had a 2007 Ovation 3. Man, that was a nice plane. I have many hours, as his unofficial co-pilot. The Super 21 is very similar and kind of the grandaddy to the Ovation. Both, are considered high performance planes and not necessarily for the beginner, but I'm sure you will be fine. Be aware, the Mooney is easy to tail drag. It usually doesn't seriously damage the plane, but repairs are expensive and it can scare the heck out of you. If you have a great attention to detail and are meticulous, go for it. You'll have the best time of your life!
 
#6
It will be fun, but also a lot more expensive to maintain and store than you think…double whatever budget you have in mind unless you live in a fly in community and can do most of your own maintenance.

You can offset some of your costs by renting it out to flying clubs, but the hours (and maintenance) pile on fast that way. I’d actually start with an older Cessna 172; super easy to fly and maintain.

Edit: several listed here; interesting to see the newer ones with the 180 hp motor I learned to fly on, but completely different (and very much upgraded!) avionics: https://www.hangar67.com/cessna172

Totally worth it if you have the $$, but go in with open eyes.
 
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#8
Assuming you’ll go to a flight school to get your license? IMO you should. Find a school that has a real focus on ground training just as much as flying. Expect to spend ALOT of time hitting the books and studying. Don’t underestimate this. Gets harder the older you are.
Assume you also know the Mooney is complex and can be a high performance plane that is not an ideal plane to learn in. Hence the flight school recommendation.
Mooney’s can be a great plane, for the right mission. Define your mission. How will you use the plane 75-80% of the time? Buy a plane that fits the mission. Don’t waste time on planes that don’t.
Add Bonanza to your search if that type of plane really fits your mission. Beautiful, great planes.
Once you’ve defined the mission and chosen a model. Plan on spending a lot of time researching years, options and avionics etc.
Best buying advise I ever got was buy a plane with the avionics you want. Easy to spend 100k on avionics. You’ll save buying an equipped plane in the long run.
Expect a plane to cost you at least $1000 per month. Fuel, maintenance, hanger etc. IMO you should at least double that amount so that your saving for annuals, engine and prop overhauls along the way.
Good luck to you!
 
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#9
Insurance for a new pilot with retractable gear is borderline impossible....if you could get it...it would break the bank. Like others said...start small. I bought a Cherokee 235 and learned in it. A bit more going on...high performance and a constant speed prop.....but if it fits, it ships. Hauls alot of weight. Good luck, it's a ride. Shes
a cruel mistress. She can sense any extra money in the budget......and poof....it's gone.
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#14
I’ll be a buzz kill …” if God wanted us to fly he’d put wings on us “ !

I’ve had some really sketchy flights in both Navy planes and flying in the states.
Flew on my ship in a COD a bunch of times, one pilot could’ve hit a wire , so we landed in Da Nang without much fuel. Launched off via the catapult , the weight of the plane loaded was too heavy ,almost hit the water before it lifted 😳

Flew to Jamaica with my wife , her first flight ever. We were over Cuba and the plane hit some turbulence , lost altitude rapidly , trays hit the overhead , masks came out. They got their shit together and pulled out. She only flew one more time, loaded up with Valiums.
Next flight was from Houston to LR , got in a massive sand storm. O visibility. We eventually ended up in OKC.
That said , have a friend that has multi engine rotary , multi engine Jet ratings… Has his own restored Bell chopper …he flights all over. Never had a boo boo ?? 🤔
 
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#15
Mooneys are fast, but not exactly roomy or having high useful load.

Airplanes got stoopid expensive during COVID, even semi-clapped C150s are going for like $50k these days.

A Cherokee 140-180, Warrior/Archer II, or 172 N/M are all solid choices for trainers and general travel and should be (relatively) inexpensive to insure, operate, hangar/tiedown and maintain. Flying clubs are another thing to look at; our local club has everything from Decathlons through SR22s.
 
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#16
Rent different planes to get an idea of what you will like. If there's a ga airport nearby hang out there and talk to people. Most will love to show off their plane and take you up. As mentioned above avionics included is way cheaper than avionics added. A lot of ga accidents are from the new guy getting behind his hot rod plane .
 
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#19
Northfl said:
So, i am retiring in jan/ feb of 26.
I am still fairly young at 56 and thinking about getting my private pilots license shortly after

For the pilot guys here, i am thinking about getting a mooney super 21 after all the necessary things are finished.
Any pro's/ con's to the mooney. All research says they are fuel efficient and pretty fast for a single engine plane.
Other option may be a piper cherokee as there a lot of them used for trainers.
Really curious as to all of this at the moment anyways
Click to expand...
A Mooney is a lot of airplane for a new pilot….and the insurance costs will reflect that. You should check with your intended provider to see if they will even insure you. They might well require something like a babysitter for your first several hundred hours. If you wanna try out aircraft ownership, you might look at buying a Cessna 150 or Cherokee 140 to use during your training. It would give you a taste of what you’re up against owning an airplane and it could potentially make training slightly cheaper if all you need to do is hire the instructor. Of course the trade-off is you’re on the hook the operating cost of the airplane. just because you weren’t paying them in rental fees, doesn’t mean you aren’t paying them.

IF you decide to pursue the license and the Mooney, find a school that will start you from day one in complex, high performance aircraft. It will be EXPENSIVE but you need to develop habit patterns and experience with retractable gear and constant speed props from the start. Part of the reason the military can train people in such a short time is that they start out in very complex, high performance airplanes. Time spent in a J3, while making you a good stick and rudder guy, won’t teach you the systems and energy management skills you will need in the Mooney. In any case, a flight school is probably a better choice than an independent instructor at the local airport unless you can carefully vet the independent guy (all my time as an instructor was essentially as the independent guy so don’t think I’m saying they can’t provide good instruction.). One thing about a non-school affiliated instructor, if you are in a big hurry and want to fly A LOT, they can usually go faster than a flight school program.

With all due respect, given your age, pad every timeline any training center gives you by 20%. It’s not that you can’t learn but you likely learn less quickly than your 20 year old self would have. In several thousand hours of dual-given, I never had a second-career, older student who learned as quickly as a young student. However, older people are typically much better students so they were easier to teach. Take that for what you will.

Aside from that, go make sure you can pass a third class aviation medical before you spend money on training.
 
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#21
OREGUN said:
A Mooney is a lot of airplane for a new pilot….and the insurance costs will reflect that. You should check with your intended provider to see if they will even insure you. They might well require something like a babysitter for your first several hundred hours. If you wanna try out aircraft ownership, you might look at buying a Cessna 150 or Cherokee 140 to use during your training. It would give you a taste of what you’re up against owning an airplane and it could potentially make training slightly cheaper if all you need to do is hire the instructor. Of course the trade-off is you’re on the hook the operating cost of the airplane. just because you weren’t paying them in rental fees, doesn’t mean you aren’t paying them.

IF you decide to pursue the license and the Mooney, find a school that will start you from day one in complex, high performance aircraft. It will be EXPENSIVE but you need to develop habit patterns and experience with retractable gear and constant speed props from the start. Part of the reason the military can train people in such a short time is that they start out in very complex, high performance airplanes. Time spent in a J3, while making you a good stick and rudder guy, won’t teach you the systems and energy management skills you will need in the Mooney. In any case, a flight school is probably a better choice than an independent instructor at the local airport unless you can carefully vet the independent guy (all my time as an instructor was essentially as the independent guy so don’t think I’m saying they can’t provide good instruction.). One thing about a non-school affiliated instructor, if you are in a big hurry and want to fly A LOT, they can usually go faster than a flight school program.

With all due respect, given your age, pad every timeline any training center gives you by 20%. It’s not that you can’t learn but you likely learn less quickly than your 20 year old self would have. In several thousand hours of dual-given, I never had a second-career, older student who learned as quickly as a young student. However, older people are typically much better students so they were easier to teach. Take that for what you will.

Aside from that, go make sure you can pass a third class aviation medical before you spend money on training.
Click to expand...
A lot of truth here. I was fortunate to have an in so to speak. My instructor was a fire tanker pilot who also flies warbirds for a museum. No bullshit kind of a guy that taught me a ton of lessons you won't get from a 20 something 250 hr CFI. I really believe the industry is suffering from a lack of "whiskers" Low time instructors teaching newbies is not a great scenario in my book.
 
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#24
At 56, you'll have 9 years left that the FAA would let you exercise the privileges of an ATP.

Take 2 or 3 years of that retirement and fly for a regional, for the fun of it. Then, walk away, and enjoy the skillset you developed.
 
#26
OK, a freight feeder then, turboprops, FTW!

Actually a Caravan job would probably be the fastest route.

After 35 years being paid to do this and 41 with a certificate, GA is where the pain is. I have been to more funerals for GA pilots than I care to remember.
 
#27
anon said:
OK, a freight feeder then, turboprops, FTW!

Actually a Caravan job would probably be the fastest route.

After 35 years being paid to do this and 41 with a certificate, GA is where the pain is. I have been to more funerals for GA pilots than I care to remember.
Click to expand...
The fastest route to what? Your first post suggested a few years at a regional to develop a skill set….which is a miserable idea but would result in some advanced skills gained in a fairly tightly supervised environment. Single pilot freight under 135? You still need 1200 hours to even apply and you’ll get no supervision and some of the worst equipment in all of commercial aviation. FFS man. He’s not desperate to build PIC time.
 
#29
Thanks for all of the replies folks. Will for sure be taking lessons and all that jazz. I have a friend that recently bought a mooney after his cessna had engine failure on his way to oklahoma. Cessna and trees dont mix for sure. But he walked away without a scratch.
The wife and i are selling out and building a smaller place on a 30acre pecan farm her aunt gave us. Its about an hour south of where we are now so thats the reason i was batting it around pretty good. Will mainly be flying to matches that are further driving than i like and bounce around florida for a day trip
 
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#30
No! Get a few hundred hours and then check out that Moody. Cost of ownership is high, and it has a bunch of hidden costs. Now, in these days, rentals are somewhat ridiculous in their own right. But get a license first. Get some good hours cross country in a 172. It’s low and slow, but it will keep you in the air, and that way you’ll see if this is really your cup of tea. Just remember, when they say approach speed in a 172 is 70 knots, they mean 70 knots, definitely not 75 knots. You’ll float half way down the runway trying to get that feather to settle.

So

1. Flying is a job, its work, heavy mental work along with some good muscle memory work, but work is the key word
2. Flying is not inexpensive.
3. There is no room for stupid mistakes. The FAA is a particularly nasty group. Always looking for a reason to blame the pilot
4. When you are pilot in command, you ARE pilot in command. If you are told something that looks wrong, remember, it’s you who is flying the aircraft. Just make darned sure you are right. (Read #3 for the explanation as to why).
5. When all hell breaks loose, always remember, Fly the plane. You’re the pilot, and no matter what is happening, you are in an aircraft and it always needs to be flown (until you finish tying it down at the airport. ) When there is an issue and you need to see what is wrong, never forget, FIRST fly the plane.

I wish I was in your position. I would love to be in the air again, but medical issues and plain $$$ keeps me on the earth

last thought…My very first instructor told me this

Its better to be down there wishing you were up here
then up here wishing you were down there.

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#31
Lots of good advice in here. A couple things I’ll add is; if serious, go get a Student pilot certificate first. It is also your 3rd class medical. I’ve seen a few folks walk into the flight school I used to instruct at 20 years ago, get shot down for a medical because of some bullshit the FAA says no to.

Shop around for insurance as another first step, also. That will be a big decision maker.

Also, when shopping for an airplane, don’t buy the great deal. It’ll cost you triple in the end. Pay a quality A&P whatever he wants to comb through that bird with a fine tooth comb, and be totally fine walking away from it if things go south.

A good buddy of mine has an old Mooney, not sure of the variant. It’s a ton of fun, go fast little hot rod. That said, we’ve both been flying 20+ years, both GA and for a living. Not that it can’t be done but you’re going to get some flak for being a low time guy in a machine like that. The closest analogy is handing a 16 year old kid a corvette as his first wheels.
 
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#33
OREGUN said:
He’s not desperate to build PIC time.
Click to expand...
Yes, and no. No, not like someone chasing a career.

But, what is the minimum level of performance, of which areas and tasks, from which ACS's are appropriate when operating a Mooney as equipped?

The time spent acquiring the skill and knowledge is not trivial, and then the time spent maintaining the skill and knowledge is also not trivial.

OP, when they teach you about aeronautical decision making, it will always be better to make sound decisions, than ones that create the need to demonstrate your superior airmanship.

Being able to say no, is important.
 
#34
anon said:
Yes, and no. No, not like someone chasing a career.

But, what is the minimum level of performance, of which areas and tasks, from which ACS's are appropriate when operating a Mooney as equipped?

The time spent acquiring the skill and knowledge is not trivial, and then the time spent maintaining the skill and knowledge is also not trivial.

OP, when they teach you about aeronautical decision making, it will always be better to make sound decisions, than ones that create the need to demonstrate your superior airmanship.

Being able to say no, is important.
Click to expand...
I actually thought you were on to something with the regional idea. Certificate mill to a commercial multi and then an 800 hour year in an RJ and he’d have a fairly strong foundation to work from. The problem with the single pilot, IFR 135 idea, although it would be more applicable to single piloting a Mooney, is that the barriers to entry are higher, the risk exposure is greater, the training and supervision is worse, etc. All things I’m sure you know. A freight job in a 402 for a shitty 135 operator is way harder than being an FO at SkyWest. Ask me how I know (although not at SkyWest).
 
#35
OREGUN said:
I actually thought you were on to something with the regional idea. Certificate mill to a commercial multi and then an 800 hour year in an RJ and he’d have a fairly strong foundation to work from. The problem with the single pilot, IFR 135 idea, although it would be more applicable to single piloting a Mooney, is that the barriers to entry are higher, the risk exposure is greater, the training and supervision is worse, etc. All things I’m sure you know. A freight job in a 402 for a shitty 135 operator is way harder than being an FO at SkyWest. Ask me how I know (although not at SkyWest).
Click to expand...
Because you stayed at a holiday inn last night?
 
#42
Northfl said:
Thanks for all of the replies folks. Will for sure be taking lessons and all that jazz. I have a friend that recently bought a mooney after his cessna had engine failure on his way to oklahoma. Cessna and trees dont mix for sure. But he walked away without a scratch.
The wife and i are selling out and building a smaller place on a 30acre pecan farm her aunt gave us. Its about an hour south of where we are now so thats the reason i was batting it around pretty good. Will mainly be flying to matches that are further driving than i like and bounce around florida for a day trip
Click to expand...

What kills new pilots is the the pressure to be somewhere at a certain time.

Flying for sightseeing in the area local to you can be safe. But using a plane for transportation to matches can easily lead to errors dealing with weather or mechanical issues that lead to crashes.
 
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