^Looks like you've got bases relatively covered with those two, especially if you don't have a place to shoot further. In terms of accuracy, I'd expect the build would have more to do with any accuracy differential than the new cartridge/caliber, and you already have some very accurate factory rifles. That said, I certainly understand the desire for a new build. Suggest doing a new thread asking for input on your build, as it will get lots more eyes on it.
- Thread starter bohem
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OK, you have two rifles that will do what you need. You want a third then go buy a .243 for what you are asking. If you want 6mm CR or XC you can do that too. Any rifle that is put together right can shoot very well. Cartridges and bullet diameters are the last things you need to look at for accuracy.
6mm has a good selection of bullets with high bc's where you can push the bullet fast. 6.5mm has better BC's, but needs a bigger cartridge to push them fast. If you have a 6.5 CR, then you have plenty. Go out on windy days and learn to shoot the wind. Focus on 'not so windy days' and you'll see how much the wind moves your bullets.
I would learn to reload on the two rifles you have. When you feel you've accomplished that, go back and look at 6mm ballistics. No advantage either way within 500 yds. if you load for the rifle right.
6mm has a good selection of bullets with high bc's where you can push the bullet fast. 6.5mm has better BC's, but needs a bigger cartridge to push them fast. If you have a 6.5 CR, then you have plenty. Go out on windy days and learn to shoot the wind. Focus on 'not so windy days' and you'll see how much the wind moves your bullets.
I would learn to reload on the two rifles you have. When you feel you've accomplished that, go back and look at 6mm ballistics. No advantage either way within 500 yds. if you load for the rifle right.
Chickentoast and Sandwarrior, Thanks so very much for your replies, As you both say what I have will serve me well. But there comes a time that we just want to have someone help spend our money. My belief from you both is that there is little to gain by expanding to 6mm and going farther down the hole for dies and components.
^What kind of groups are you currently shooting with your RPR and Tikka at your 400 yard range? If you are shooting 1" on good days and are simply Jonesing for 1/2", then a new build can get you there. If, however, you're at 3" and want to see 1" at 400, your current equipment is capable of that (assuming no lemons and appropriate optic). Everyone here is more than happy to help someone spend money - starting a thread about it would also get more replies, from people much more knowledgeable than me.
For now. When you get hooked, look at a high BC capable 6mm.
FWIW, I shoot a 6mm Dasher. I shoot Berger and DTAC 115's and Matchburner 112's. I tried shooting the Sierra 110's but I believe they didn't work with my throat. It's throated at about .220". The neck is a .272" 'no turn'. The three bullets I mentioned barely get into the lands with neck depth seating. It's a 1-7" twist, 28" long. Krieger barrel that was cut by a guy named Lentz out of PA. I bought the barrel used when he decided he wanted to go a different direction. A BAT SV action bedded by McMillan in a McMillan Kestros. Accuracy is the key with this rifle. It can get you to one mile accurately. Bullet efficiency, not a bigger cartridge.
I think this thread starts off with an interesting bias that is worth having a look at. So many cartridges are perfectly capable of outstanding performance but are victims of the limitations imposed on them by both marketing and the SAAMI spec itself.
I like to look at cartridges in terms of power to weight ratio before all other things. Thats going to determine speed, for the most part but even that is not the whole story because case capacity is affected by seating depth. With that in mind, anyone who knows anything wants the base of the bearing surface of the bullet parked ahead of the neck to shoulder junction often called the donut.
So for that to happen with a bullet that is suitable for long range... And I'm assuming thats the goal, otherwise we'd be talking about shotguns or handguns.. We are talking about VLD bullets in about the heaviest weight range available with the highest BC.
You can take any cartridge you want and chamber it so the VLDs are seated out properly and in a good barrel with a good target grade chambering job, you'll get god accuracy. Sure there will be slight performance differences if we consider internal ballistics and bolt thrust, things like that, but most people could not shoot the difference.
All I can say to someone who is interested in a rifle build, is get some projectiles in the size you are looking for and work your way back from there. Find a case that holds no more than about 1/3 of the bullet weight in powder and you are going to be on solid ground.
Now go find a mag and action that is long enough to feed that round from a mag and eject the live round from the action without having to pull the bolt to do it.
Case in point: My F Class rifle is based on a SA Rem in 308 and I cannot feed the rounds from a mag or eject a live round. If the gun was built on a long action, it would be more versatile using the F Class load. As it sits, I need to run a different load for anything that requires that I feed from the mag.
I like to look at cartridges in terms of power to weight ratio before all other things. Thats going to determine speed, for the most part but even that is not the whole story because case capacity is affected by seating depth. With that in mind, anyone who knows anything wants the base of the bearing surface of the bullet parked ahead of the neck to shoulder junction often called the donut.
So for that to happen with a bullet that is suitable for long range... And I'm assuming thats the goal, otherwise we'd be talking about shotguns or handguns.. We are talking about VLD bullets in about the heaviest weight range available with the highest BC.
You can take any cartridge you want and chamber it so the VLDs are seated out properly and in a good barrel with a good target grade chambering job, you'll get god accuracy. Sure there will be slight performance differences if we consider internal ballistics and bolt thrust, things like that, but most people could not shoot the difference.
All I can say to someone who is interested in a rifle build, is get some projectiles in the size you are looking for and work your way back from there. Find a case that holds no more than about 1/3 of the bullet weight in powder and you are going to be on solid ground.
Now go find a mag and action that is long enough to feed that round from a mag and eject the live round from the action without having to pull the bolt to do it.
Case in point: My F Class rifle is based on a SA Rem in 308 and I cannot feed the rounds from a mag or eject a live round. If the gun was built on a long action, it would be more versatile using the F Class load. As it sits, I need to run a different load for anything that requires that I feed from the mag.
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Deleted member 173458
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Its an awesome round esp for hunting. I like smaller rounds like the dasher for targets
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Deleted member 173458
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both are great but the creed will have shorter barrel life for sure
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Deleted member 173458
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I agree its all about shot placement
Fantastic thread. Been considering 6.5 PRC, 7 SAUM and 300 WSM for my next build and have been stuck for weeks. Didn’t want to be that guy who asked worn out questions about chamberings. Just found this and had my nose buried in it till my eyes were stinging. Will be recommending this thread to more people!
Thanks for the effort.
Thanks for the effort.
Good choices IMHO... FYI ADG brass for 300 WSM should be out shortly - testing is done, just waiting on a production run. They already make PRC and SAUM.
Yeah I currently shoot 6.5 Creed and love it. Competition wise it’s damn near the perfect round for me. Was just wanting a rifle that would be competitive enough at long range to satisfy me but also had enough umph to do some bigger game hunting than whitetail. And yes I read the million comments about how 6.5cm is plenty big for elk but come on I just wanted an excuse to build another rifle (don’t crush my dreams). So that’s where I landed on those 3 rounds but I think I’ve decided now I’ll do 7 saum / 7wsm.
^7 Sherman Mega & 195's! If you have to mag feed a short action, do consider the Sherman SS. If single feeding or going medium action or Tikka build, all the short mags are pretty great when throated long.
Over the last 20 years I have built over 35 rifles for myself.
In 2021 it was:
6.5x54r Vostok on Mosin action
260 Rem 3.1" oal throated on 1903 Turk action. [nice gun]
357max on Rem rolling block action
280AI on Sav 110 action
In 2020 it was:
250 Sav on Rem 700 action
25 Krag Ackley on Mosin action
7mmSTW on Defiance action
6.5-06 on Husq Mauser action [nice gun]
In 2019 it was:
25 Krag Ackley on Krag action
250 Sav on 1917 Sav 99 action
6.5-06 Rem 700 action [nice rifle]
In 2018 280AI on 1949 Win 70 action [nice gun]
In 2021 it was:
6.5x54r Vostok on Mosin action
260 Rem 3.1" oal throated on 1903 Turk action. [nice gun]
357max on Rem rolling block action
280AI on Sav 110 action
In 2020 it was:
250 Sav on Rem 700 action
25 Krag Ackley on Mosin action
7mmSTW on Defiance action
6.5-06 on Husq Mauser action [nice gun]
In 2019 it was:
25 Krag Ackley on Krag action
250 Sav on 1917 Sav 99 action
6.5-06 Rem 700 action [nice rifle]
In 2018 280AI on 1949 Win 70 action [nice gun]
I've been thinking, if I could only have three centerfire rifle, what would I want. And I don't hunting, so just target or competition shooting.
I think it'd be;
223AI
6 Dasher
7 SAUM
I think it'd be;
223AI
6 Dasher
7 SAUM
Good info.
I’ve been in long range game 10 years I started with a 6.5/06 Which is ballistically identical to 6.5 PRC it’s a really awesome flat shooting cartridge I highly recommend to anyone new to the sport it has very forgiving external ballistics. Being that 6.5/06 factory loadings are basically non existent you pretty much have to hand load exclusively for it. I were to redo it I think I would have gone 6.5 cm because of ammunition availability. That said I get lazy spells and don’t always want to load a batch of rounds for the 6.5/06 before a range session instead Ill opt for my 6.5 Grendel more often as factory ammo is readily available. I’ve gotten accustomed to the external ballistics of the 6.5 Grendel And shoot it very well to 1000 yards. I’ve recently struck interest in the 308 as it has similar trajectory to the Grendel with a slight edge in performance over the Grendel. My overall conclusion from my experiences is if you want a extremely forgiving cartridge stick with the fast high BC 6.5’s or if you don’t mind some sand bagging then go with the 308.
223 Rem in Bolt action. Short to mid range target shooting with kids for cheap ammo.
6.5x55 Swedish (Modern action): Hunting, Range, Long Range fun. Considered the Creedmoor but it never dazzled me and with my purposes and no intent to buy a "dazzling" stock option there is no real advantage to the SA (Tikka proved this to me long ago). Also looked at the 260 with brass options of necking up/down other brass... The history of the Swede paired with near infinite seating options was hard to pass up ultimately winning out. Easy-ish inexpensive plinking ammo doesn't hurt either.
Got my kids both bolt action 6.5 Grendels to learn/hunt with mainly for bullet parity but have no regrets.
Then the usual assortment of rimfire/ pistol options.
6.5x55 Swedish (Modern action): Hunting, Range, Long Range fun. Considered the Creedmoor but it never dazzled me and with my purposes and no intent to buy a "dazzling" stock option there is no real advantage to the SA (Tikka proved this to me long ago). Also looked at the 260 with brass options of necking up/down other brass... The history of the Swede paired with near infinite seating options was hard to pass up ultimately winning out. Easy-ish inexpensive plinking ammo doesn't hurt either.
Got my kids both bolt action 6.5 Grendels to learn/hunt with mainly for bullet parity but have no regrets.
Then the usual assortment of rimfire/ pistol options.
I am also wondering about that caliber. The .300 PRC ballistics are pretty impressive. I would like to build one, but I'll probably end up with a Bergara.
On second thought, I'll change my choices to a BRA and 6.5 PRC
I never said I knew what I was talking about...
Me neither but I love those calibers. The 223AI is such a sleeper caliber that performs.
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