I'm dead set on having my first custom rifle built. I've had the chance to shoot different stocks and I'm pretty set on the AICS 1.5. The thumbhole stock just feels natural to me. However, I'm still undecided on the caliber. I don't reload. It's something I'd eventually like to start but just haven't been able to due to PCS, deployments, etc. I've almost burnt out the search feature on the site with all the knowledge around here. I was originally wanting a .300 WSM but now leaning more towards a 7mm WSM or SAUM. I'm looking to punch steel at 1000+ without breaking the bank on ammo like a .338. I've weighted the advantages/disadvantages of the .300 WSM vs. the 7 WSM and 7 WSM vs. 7 SAUM. It sounds like the 7 SAUM is easier on the throat and barrel with almost identical speeds. It also sounds like 7 SAUM brass is hard to come by. For someone that doesn't reload yet, is 7 SAUM ammo gonna be hard to come by? Also, the 6.5 sounds like an option, but I don't want to go through barrels as fast as I do underwear. I'm completely open to suggestions. Thanks in advance.
- Thread starter scoutdriver
- Start date
Re: caliber selection
For the first custom and not reloading.....308 Winchester.
I belive that round has the best factory loadings available.
If you want to have handloads made for the rifle I belive dallasreloads.com can help you out. Or talk with Corbon or Hornady and have a load made for your rifle and then just call and order a case of ammo....alot of the profesional shooters/instructors do that.
For me I am very happy with my 7mm-08 Rem with 18" barrel. I know you will get a million different opinions but the SAUMs have never seemed to catch on with the masses, therfore the brass will be difficult to find. The 7mmWSM is a well appreciated round. You might pick a smith and ask them what they would recomend.
For the first custom and not reloading.....308 Winchester.
I belive that round has the best factory loadings available.
If you want to have handloads made for the rifle I belive dallasreloads.com can help you out. Or talk with Corbon or Hornady and have a load made for your rifle and then just call and order a case of ammo....alot of the profesional shooters/instructors do that.
For me I am very happy with my 7mm-08 Rem with 18" barrel. I know you will get a million different opinions but the SAUMs have never seemed to catch on with the masses, therfore the brass will be difficult to find. The 7mmWSM is a well appreciated round. You might pick a smith and ask them what they would recomend.
Re: caliber selection
+1 on the .308, for economy and performance in a package. that said, my first custom was a 300wsm, never looked back.
+1 on the .308, for economy and performance in a package. that said, my first custom was a 300wsm, never looked back.
Re: caliber selection
Thanks guys for the recommendations. That's exactly the info I was looking for. I guess I should have said .308 isn't out of the picture either. I own a .308. It's a great rifle, but I wouldn't call it my long distance tack driver. That being said, a custom .308 may fill the void.
Thanks guys for the recommendations. That's exactly the info I was looking for. I guess I should have said .308 isn't out of the picture either. I own a .308. It's a great rifle, but I wouldn't call it my long distance tack driver. That being said, a custom .308 may fill the void.
Re: caliber selection
Look at a 243WIN, way better ballistic performance than 308 and easier on the pocket book than magnums.
Look at a 243WIN, way better ballistic performance than 308 and easier on the pocket book than magnums.
Re: caliber selection
Might I suggest a 284 it uses standard bolt face with magnum like performance. I am pushing the 162amax out of mine at just over 3000fps and using less than 55grains of powder.
Might I suggest a 284 it uses standard bolt face with magnum like performance. I am pushing the 162amax out of mine at just over 3000fps and using less than 55grains of powder.
Re: caliber selection
If you don't reload look into the 260 or 6.5 Creedmore, both have high BC factory loads available.
If you don't reload look into the 260 or 6.5 Creedmore, both have high BC factory loads available.
Re: caliber selection
I will do more research on the .243, .260, and .284. Those are all possibilities. I hear the 6.5 is a great round, but comparatively speaking, you go through barrels much faster. Of these rounds, in terms of BC, overall ballistics, and availability of factory match grade ammo, how would you rate or compare them? Is there a particular caliber that stands out? I really appreciate the input fellas.
I will do more research on the .243, .260, and .284. Those are all possibilities. I hear the 6.5 is a great round, but comparatively speaking, you go through barrels much faster. Of these rounds, in terms of BC, overall ballistics, and availability of factory match grade ammo, how would you rate or compare them? Is there a particular caliber that stands out? I really appreciate the input fellas.
Re: caliber selection
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scoutdriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will do more research on the .243, .260, and .284. Those are all possibilities. I hear the 6.5 is a great round, but comparatively speaking, you go through barrels much faster. Of these rounds, in terms of BC, overall ballistics, and availability of factory match grade ammo, how would you rate or compare them? Is there a particular caliber that stands out? I really appreciate the input fellas. </div></div>
243: huge bullet and loaded ammo selection. burns barrels the fastest: maybe 2000 rounds or so. Best ballistics out of a short action...with 260 very close.
.260: good bullet selection if you reload, limited loaded ammo selection: no hunting ammo that I know of. easier on barrel: 3000+ rounds. Ballistics right up there with 243.
.284: no experience, probably will give best barrel life, but not sure on loaded ammo or bullet selection. Ballistics better than a 308, but this caliber/cartridge begs to be used in a long action for top performance.
Go here to find great info on all those calibers/cartridges: http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html Look on the side menu.
If it matters to you, 243WIN is the only cartridge listed above that you will find loaded ammo for in some of the more remote parts of the US and world. If this is a real concern, 308 starts looking like a great choice too.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scoutdriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will do more research on the .243, .260, and .284. Those are all possibilities. I hear the 6.5 is a great round, but comparatively speaking, you go through barrels much faster. Of these rounds, in terms of BC, overall ballistics, and availability of factory match grade ammo, how would you rate or compare them? Is there a particular caliber that stands out? I really appreciate the input fellas. </div></div>
243: huge bullet and loaded ammo selection. burns barrels the fastest: maybe 2000 rounds or so. Best ballistics out of a short action...with 260 very close.
.260: good bullet selection if you reload, limited loaded ammo selection: no hunting ammo that I know of. easier on barrel: 3000+ rounds. Ballistics right up there with 243.
.284: no experience, probably will give best barrel life, but not sure on loaded ammo or bullet selection. Ballistics better than a 308, but this caliber/cartridge begs to be used in a long action for top performance.
Go here to find great info on all those calibers/cartridges: http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html Look on the side menu.
If it matters to you, 243WIN is the only cartridge listed above that you will find loaded ammo for in some of the more remote parts of the US and world. If this is a real concern, 308 starts looking like a great choice too.
Re: caliber selection
Scooter, I really appreciate the down and dirty info. The 6mmbr website also has some great info. I looked more into the .243. Apparently George at GAP called it his holy grail of competition rifles a few years back. The only major negative I see so far with the .243 is the barrel life, like you stated Scooter.
Scooter, I really appreciate the down and dirty info. The 6mmbr website also has some great info. I looked more into the .243. Apparently George at GAP called it his holy grail of competition rifles a few years back. The only major negative I see so far with the .243 is the barrel life, like you stated Scooter.
Re: caliber selection
it will come down to your decission and what the main purpose of the rifle will be.the .308 covers the largest array of possiblities cheap,tons of load data,can reach 1,000+ with a little work,ammo and components are everywhere.the other "speciality" rounds are much better ballisticly,but you give up something in throat erosion,hard to find brass or high dollar.
it will come down to your decission and what the main purpose of the rifle will be.the .308 covers the largest array of possiblities cheap,tons of load data,can reach 1,000+ with a little work,ammo and components are everywhere.the other "speciality" rounds are much better ballisticly,but you give up something in throat erosion,hard to find brass or high dollar.
Re: caliber selection
I would think that the .284 is even more overbore than the .243, as it requires a rebated rim to fit an exremely fat cartridge in a standard short action.
As said, if you do not reload, the .308 is the way to go.
If you are going the custom route, you will eventually reload.
Personally, i would lean towards the 7mm-08, long barrel life like the .308 but with much better ballistics. The 162 grai A-max has a sick B.C. of .625, you have to go above 200 grains in a .30 cal to beat it, and the 139 grain SST has a B.C. over .5
It is a win/win all the way around, you have mass and ballistic efficiency without burning out your barrel.
I would think that the .284 is even more overbore than the .243, as it requires a rebated rim to fit an exremely fat cartridge in a standard short action.
As said, if you do not reload, the .308 is the way to go.
If you are going the custom route, you will eventually reload.
Personally, i would lean towards the 7mm-08, long barrel life like the .308 but with much better ballistics. The 162 grai A-max has a sick B.C. of .625, you have to go above 200 grains in a .30 cal to beat it, and the 139 grain SST has a B.C. over .5
It is a win/win all the way around, you have mass and ballistic efficiency without burning out your barrel.
Re: caliber selection
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would think that the .284 is even more overbore than the .243, as it requires a rebated rim to fit an exremely fat cartridge in a standard short action.
As said, if you do not reload, the .308 is the way to go.
If you are going the custom route, you will eventually reload.
Personally, i would lean towards the 7mm-08, long barrel life like the .308 but with much better ballistics. The 162 grai A-max has a sick B.C. of .625, you have to go above 200 grains in a .30 cal to beat it, and the 139 grain SST has a B.C. over .5
It is a win/win all the way around, you have mass and ballistic efficiency without burning out your barrel. </div></div>
FDKay,
You might not be aware that Brian Litz tested the 162 gr A-Max, and it's real G1 BC is .600 and a G7 BC of .307.
Which although good, is eclipsed by Bergers target 7mm 168 gr VLD @ .617 & .316 respectively. Of course Both Bergers 180 gr Target bullets exceed this as well.
That said, the 7mm-08 is an excellent choice for the reloader, almost equaling the 6.5's in ballistic performance, but with better barrel life.
Bob
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would think that the .284 is even more overbore than the .243, as it requires a rebated rim to fit an exremely fat cartridge in a standard short action.
As said, if you do not reload, the .308 is the way to go.
If you are going the custom route, you will eventually reload.
Personally, i would lean towards the 7mm-08, long barrel life like the .308 but with much better ballistics. The 162 grai A-max has a sick B.C. of .625, you have to go above 200 grains in a .30 cal to beat it, and the 139 grain SST has a B.C. over .5
It is a win/win all the way around, you have mass and ballistic efficiency without burning out your barrel. </div></div>
FDKay,
You might not be aware that Brian Litz tested the 162 gr A-Max, and it's real G1 BC is .600 and a G7 BC of .307.
Which although good, is eclipsed by Bergers target 7mm 168 gr VLD @ .617 & .316 respectively. Of course Both Bergers 180 gr Target bullets exceed this as well.
That said, the 7mm-08 is an excellent choice for the reloader, almost equaling the 6.5's in ballistic performance, but with better barrel life.
Bob
Re: caliber selection
Ok as you dont want to rely on reloads the 7mm's are out aswell as the 243 the 284 win has over 1 1/2 the barrel life of a 243 the 243 is more over bore than the 284. the 284 is very well balanced and launches a 175gr matchking around 2850fps and shoots well to 1500 yards it outperforms a lot of cartriges. the 7mm rem SAUM is the best 7mm mag but it can be hard to find components but they are available i shoot one for F Class comps to 1500 yards and it just plain kicks ass and is infront of the 300 wsm's i compete against with the same length barrel and conditions.
But for your requirements i would seriously look at the 6.5 creedmore as a first choice for performance and then the 308 for ease of use and purchasing ammo anywhere.
if you were looking at reloading more cartriges come into the picture but if going to rely on factory you are limited for long range precision you can buy factory hunting ammo for all calibres above but they are a waste of time for precision long range shooting.
so the 6.5CM would be my pic with the quality matvh ammo avalable to you there in the US it out performs the 308 with lerr recoil but the 308 is hard to beat if you just want to rely on factory ammo availability.
I personaly would start to reload then you can choose anything the rem SAUM cases are available from Sinclair intl in rem and in 30 cal Norma that can be necked down it is an amasing calibre but will burn out a barrel in around 2500 rounds you will get close to double with a 308 but reloading is still the way to go.
Ok as you dont want to rely on reloads the 7mm's are out aswell as the 243 the 284 win has over 1 1/2 the barrel life of a 243 the 243 is more over bore than the 284. the 284 is very well balanced and launches a 175gr matchking around 2850fps and shoots well to 1500 yards it outperforms a lot of cartriges. the 7mm rem SAUM is the best 7mm mag but it can be hard to find components but they are available i shoot one for F Class comps to 1500 yards and it just plain kicks ass and is infront of the 300 wsm's i compete against with the same length barrel and conditions.
But for your requirements i would seriously look at the 6.5 creedmore as a first choice for performance and then the 308 for ease of use and purchasing ammo anywhere.
if you were looking at reloading more cartriges come into the picture but if going to rely on factory you are limited for long range precision you can buy factory hunting ammo for all calibres above but they are a waste of time for precision long range shooting.
so the 6.5CM would be my pic with the quality matvh ammo avalable to you there in the US it out performs the 308 with lerr recoil but the 308 is hard to beat if you just want to rely on factory ammo availability.
I personaly would start to reload then you can choose anything the rem SAUM cases are available from Sinclair intl in rem and in 30 cal Norma that can be necked down it is an amasing calibre but will burn out a barrel in around 2500 rounds you will get close to double with a 308 but reloading is still the way to go.
Re: caliber selection
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you are going the custom route, you will eventually reload.
</div></div>
You're right. Whatever caliber I decide I will eventually reload, but probably not immediately.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you are going the custom route, you will eventually reload.
</div></div>
You're right. Whatever caliber I decide I will eventually reload, but probably not immediately.
Re: caliber selection
if you don't reload get a 300wm and enjoy each shot because it will be spendy. without reloading all the rest are not going to give you much advantage without reloading or at least buying custom reloaded ammo.
if you don't reload get a 300wm and enjoy each shot because it will be spendy. without reloading all the rest are not going to give you much advantage without reloading or at least buying custom reloaded ammo.
Re: caliber selection
6.5x55?
Long barrel life, reasonable performing factory loads, ability to reload for much better performance.
It's an option I would consider. Not the best for long range but when you start looking at running costs and actual NEED cartridges like this look a lot better than something more powerful.
If it was me and I was REALLY going to shoot over 1k often I would look at the .300WM. If it's an occasional shoot out to 1.2k I would look at the 308 or 6.5x55.
6.5x55?
Long barrel life, reasonable performing factory loads, ability to reload for much better performance.
It's an option I would consider. Not the best for long range but when you start looking at running costs and actual NEED cartridges like this look a lot better than something more powerful.
If it was me and I was REALLY going to shoot over 1k often I would look at the .300WM. If it's an occasional shoot out to 1.2k I would look at the 308 or 6.5x55.
Re: caliber selection
Here is one of the finest threads I have read about accuracy as it relates to caliber selection in a while.
The key part of the article is about how important twist rate is to accuracy... and how twist rate relates to range. Interesting how someone notes that 1:12" is a good twist for a 308 at 100 yards while 1:10" is much better for 1,000 yards. Of course, high twist is needed for heavier bullets, but I never thought about twist rate relating to accuracy at range as well.
Also, since you don't reload, you will probably have an easier time locating match grade 300 WM than some of the other calibers you mention.
Here is one of the finest threads I have read about accuracy as it relates to caliber selection in a while.
The key part of the article is about how important twist rate is to accuracy... and how twist rate relates to range. Interesting how someone notes that 1:12" is a good twist for a 308 at 100 yards while 1:10" is much better for 1,000 yards. Of course, high twist is needed for heavier bullets, but I never thought about twist rate relating to accuracy at range as well.
Also, since you don't reload, you will probably have an easier time locating match grade 300 WM than some of the other calibers you mention.
Re: caliber selection
I figured I'd chime in as well here. Since you've already got a 308, and you're wanting a tackdriving LR gun, I'd really only be looking at either a 6.5mm round or a magnum. Like you, I love the AICS which also means you may want to snag a M2008 Badger action and set yourself up for a switch barrel gun.
Now, you can go a few different ways with the same gun. I've got that setup in a AICS 2.0 right now, and will one day pick between getting a 6.5L or a 260REM barrel for my stick for the better ballistics. Still, as is, the switch barrel system is a cost effective way to go, and most of the builders on this site will make you an OUTSTANDING rifle with that combo. Just another option for you to think about.
I figured I'd chime in as well here. Since you've already got a 308, and you're wanting a tackdriving LR gun, I'd really only be looking at either a 6.5mm round or a magnum. Like you, I love the AICS which also means you may want to snag a M2008 Badger action and set yourself up for a switch barrel gun.
Now, you can go a few different ways with the same gun. I've got that setup in a AICS 2.0 right now, and will one day pick between getting a 6.5L or a 260REM barrel for my stick for the better ballistics. Still, as is, the switch barrel system is a cost effective way to go, and most of the builders on this site will make you an OUTSTANDING rifle with that combo. Just another option for you to think about.
Re: caliber selection
Gents, I really appreciate all the information. I think all the calibers listed above are great choices. With all the info I've collected, I'm leaning towards the 6.5 CM. I realize it's overbore, and I'll burn through barrels much faster, but there's factory match ammo available to suit my needs until I start reloading.
Gents, I really appreciate all the information. I think all the calibers listed above are great choices. With all the info I've collected, I'm leaning towards the 6.5 CM. I realize it's overbore, and I'll burn through barrels much faster, but there's factory match ammo available to suit my needs until I start reloading.
Re: caliber selection
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Good article
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Good article
Re: caliber selection
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Good article </div></div>
That was a great read. Thanks for sharing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redfisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Good article </div></div>
That was a great read. Thanks for sharing.
