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Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

D

DT1

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Minuteman
Oct 23, 2006
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I've just about worn out my barrel in my 300WM and have decided to explore another caliber for playing around with distances from 500-1000yds.

The action is a Remington 700 LA magnum in an AICS stock.

I've never explored any of the 7mm cartridges and am leaning toward something like 7mm WSM or just plain ol' 7mm Mag. I guess I could do either with my action. Any big advantages one way or the other? Ballistics look fairly similar.

The other caliber I'm considering is 6.5-284. I have a couple of 260 Remington's and like the performance I've gotten from the heavier (139-142gr) bullets. Might be fun to explore some faster velocities with the 6.5-284.

I'd like to stick with a cartridge that's got brass readily available vs a wildcat that requires a lot of brass formation and prep.

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions.

David
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

In a long action. I would go with one of the 7mm'S 280 or 7wsm would be nice. I dont like belted mags and dont like to waste space in the mag. The 7 Ultra is one of my fav's shoots flatter than just about anything but the Cheytacs.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

280mproved or 6.5/06improved
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">280mproved or 6.5/06improved</div></div>

Is brass available for these (7mm Ultra also) or do you have to fireform etc to get the brass?

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.260</div></div>

Already got a couple. Thanks!
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

Hi you can get 280AI brass formed new now by nosler but unless you wnat to change bolt and mags not an option i love these posts where someone tells you what rifle they want to rebarrel and you end up with cartriges that aty least require a new bolt and sometimes new bolt and mags.

Ok i have shot 7mm mags a lot and we reccomend them to most people over the 30 cals because the 175gr MatchKings are only beeten by the 240gr MatchKings the 210 and 220gr matchKings need to be pushed faster that a 7mm 175gr matchking to Equil the ballistic performance with a lot more recoil.

So you are on the right track in the short mags. I have tried most but the one that performs the best for capacity and barrel life is the 7mm Remington SAUM in a quality match Barrel 2000 rounds is no problam with powders like H1000 in Norma brass and Retumbo in Rem brass. i have the 175gr MatchKings leaving the 28" barrel just at 3100fps it is very long throated and using a compressed load of Retumbo. with mag loading you should get around 3000fps with H1000 and a 26" barrel use Norma 300 Rem SAUM brass and neck it to 7mm with no other changes if you want but Rem Brass has been as accurate and i have 10 loads on Rem Brass. Dont try the faster powders as all you will do is hammer cases in any of the chamberings you mentioned all will drive the 175gr MatchKings close to 3000fps. Retumbo is the best powder in the other two because of the extra powder capacity but side by side testing has confirmed that the fastest will be the 7mm rem Mag then the 7mm Rem SAUM then the 7mm WSM these are all long throated and will not work in a short action this way. A fourth option is the 7mm,300WSM you get 3oo WSM cases and size them to 7mm with no other changes or neck up 270WSM cases this is better as you get a longer neck and the smaller capacity equils the standard 7mm WSM.

so there are my recomendations based on testing and experience
1st 7mm Rem SAUM
2nd 7mm-300 WSM
3rd 7mm Rem Mag
4th 7mm WSM
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

I agree with the .280 AI. Very good performance at 600-800 yards with a Berger 140 VLD. I have a 6.5 and love it. Shooting 142 SMK. I am in the process of buiding a hunting rifle in a 6.5 because of the performance.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi you can get 280AI brass formed new now by nosler but unless you wnat to change bolt and mags not an option i love these posts where someone tells you what rifle they want to rebarrel and you end up with cartriges that aty least require a new bolt and sometimes new bolt and mags.

Ok i have shot 7mm mags a lot and we reccomend them to most people over the 30 cals because the 175gr MatchKings are only beeten by the 240gr MatchKings the 210 and 220gr matchKings need to be pushed faster that a 7mm 175gr matchking to Equil the ballistic performance with a lot more recoil.

So you are on the right track in the short mags. I have tried most but the one that performs the best for capacity and barrel life is the 7mm Remington SAUM in a quality match Barrel 2000 rounds is no problam with powders like H1000 in Norma brass and Retumbo in Rem brass. i have the 175gr MatchKings leaving the 28" barrel just at 3100fps it is very long throated and using a compressed load of Retumbo. with mag loading you should get around 3000fps with H1000 and a 26" barrel use Norma 300 Rem SAUM brass and neck it to 7mm with no other changes if you want but Rem Brass has been as accurate and i have 10 loads on Rem Brass. Dont try the faster powders as all you will do is hammer cases in any of the chamberings you mentioned all will drive the 175gr MatchKings close to 3000fps. Retumbo is the best powder in the other two because of the extra powder capacity but side by side testing has confirmed that the fastest will be the 7mm rem Mag then the 7mm Rem SAUM then the 7mm WSM these are all long throated and will not work in a short action this way. A fourth option is the 7mm,300WSM you get 3oo WSM cases and size them to 7mm with no other changes or neck up 270WSM cases this is better as you get a longer neck and the smaller capacity equils the standard 7mm WSM.

so there are my recomendations based on testing and experience
1st 7mm Rem SAUM
2nd 7mm-300 WSM
3rd 7mm Rem Mag
4th 7mm WSM

</div></div>

Sorry to hijack the thread a little but Bill seems to have a bunch of info on a subject I'm really interested in too so forgive me. Bill, as you know, DPMS has a mag for their .308 AR system that fits a SAUM round. Any tips on the calibers you mention fitting in that mag or reloading to fit mag length?

To the OP: I currently have a .300WM & I'm looking at doing something similar, was considering playing with the 240SMK as I have a metric ass ton of WM cases. Be interesting to see what else is recommended....
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

Thanks for the suggestions guys. No prob on the hijack GMan, that was intreresting info on the magazine question.

I'd rather stay with the bolt as is and just re-barrel in something new and interesting (to me).

I think I've got my heart set on exploring something in 7mm family that will work with my current set up (bolt, stock, AICS mags etc)

If I go with one of the "short mag" options ie: 7mm SAUM or 7mm WSM will I be wasting some of the benefits of the full sized magnum action I've got? Seems like those are good choices to use if you've got a short action and want magnum performance. Perhaps the 7mm RUM or just plain ol' 7mm mag (belt and all) might do a better job of taking full advantage of the action.

I mainly want to shoot the thing at the Hardrock matches (600, 800, 900 and 1000yds).

I guess I need to study the ballistics tables and BC's a bit further.

Thanks again for the input.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

ok with the length of the mags the short mags realy shine, by having the barrel throated out you increase the capacity by up to 5gr of powder, i would not go with the ultra mag because if you are firing mags full or ammo you will fry the bore in under 500 rounds to much horsepower. the 7mm Rem Mag is a great round but to get the same velocity you have to burn more powder than if you have a long throated short mag.

I have worksed with them all except the 7mm Ultra mag but i do have a 270 Allen Mag that is the ultramag necked to 7mm and severly improved. Now the over all length i load my 7mm Rem SAUM's is 3.025 for a magnum and the 175gr MatchKing, the 7mm WSM can be loaded to 3.125" i have also run the 7mm Rem Mag loaded to 3.500" and they shoot well but all are similar in velocity with the Rem case holding a lot less powder for the same vel;ocity. The WSM case also has the 35 degree shoulder and is usulay harder to get to feed smothly so if you are using it where rapid fire is neded in competition it may slow you down a bit. The rem SAUM case has a 30 degree shoulder and feeds realy well in a long action and loaded to 2.800" i use them in a rem model7 in 7mm SAUN in modified 10 shot AR10 mags made to fit 5 short mag cases. The 7mm Rem mag is a great all round cartrige with a gently tapered case that feeds well when set up correctly and the 300 win mag magazines will work well for it aswell. the only thing is they have the belt but they can be loaded and headspaced off the shoulder but because the case is longer it effectly reduces the barrel 1/2" and as a resull the extra powder only equils the performance of the short mags.

The other thing you want to get the maximum velocity with the least amount of powder so you create less heat from the burning powder.

So all 3 will work for you but for the purposes you want to have a cartrige that feeds reliably does not over heat the barrel unduly and is accurate and very efficiant in the wind. With the long action you can realy wring out the performance from the 7mm Short mags a lot of people who are building long range rifles for the WMS cases use the long action to gain the performance that can be gained by throating them out and loading the projectile out a lot more. My 7mm Rem SAUM with long throat i have 66gr of Retumbo in them, and have had 68gr in the Rem Cases but they shot better at 66.5gr. please dont load your rifles up with this load without starting at lease 4 gr below. i can not load these loads with my rifle and a 2.800" oal.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

Considering the bolt face diameter and cartridge dimensions involved in the action, I'd be comfortable suggesting the 7mm Remington Magnum. I have seen this cartridge perform in 1Kyd F Class, and the user appeared very happy.

Whatever you choose, remember the bolt face diameter issue; and consider how 40 rounds plus sighters, fired prone, without a brake, is going to bear on your LR Comp score. Keep it tame.

Greg
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

David,

If you apply the idea of not re-inventing the wheel then look at what's winning at the moment say in F-class as Greg suggested.

Doing this confirms your choice of 7mm. The recent World Championships were dominated by 7mm mostly based on the 7WSM, the winnner in the individual and top score in the team using a 270-7WSM (sort of short chamberd 7WSM that can use 270 Norma brass I beleieve). Using the 180g Berger bulet you've a strong round.

I think the US team mostly used the 6.5x284 at Bisley. The S African chapionships 4 years previous I beleive was also dominated by 7mm's.

The WSM also fitting int a short action would swing it for me personally.

So many choices - so little time
wink.gif


Brgds Terry
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

Thanks again very much for the suggestions guys. The 7mm WSM appears to be a good choice, going with a throated barrel and loading them long. I think I'll give that one a whirl. Yes, so many choices, so little time (and $...).

David
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

Take a look at the 7 Dakota. Halfway between a wsm and an ultra mag. A somewhat limited selection of rather overpriced components, but the cartridge is superb.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

You don't need a magnum for 500-1000. Go .284 in a long action and seat Berger or JLK 180's to the lands.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DT1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I guess I could do either with my action. Any big advantages one way or the other? Ballistics look fairly similar.

The other caliber I'm considering is 6.5-284. I have a couple of 260 Remington's and like the performance I've gotten from the heavier (139-142gr) bullets. Might be fun to explore some faster velocities with the 6.5-284.

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions.

David </div></div>

6.5-284.
Lapua makes brass and scenars for it.
Besides beeing excellent long range cartridge, works in hunting too. Got two friends who hunt birds, seals and mooses with it- and shoot in tactical sniper comps too with success.
cal has been very popular in comps few years already.

light rifle, no recoil, very good ballistics (better than 338 Lapua) and components available. pick should be easy. Compare all calibers mentioned in this thread with ballistic software and you'll see...
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

Well I guess I'll jump in and add to your confusion of long range caliber selection. I'm a nobody, haven't killed anyone in the "Sand Box", but over the last 20+ years I have shot a lot of steel targets with various cartridges and bullet designs in the quest for the ultimate setup to defend the planet from armor plated alien invaders from space. I had my eyes opened one day when I was showing off shooting a 300 Win Mag at 1750Y with 180 Ballistic tips and 190 MKs, when a newbie to long range shooting showed up with his newly acquired $5k rifle which he had been shooting at "his" standard of long range of 800Y. We challenged/ encouraged him to try our 1750 target after helping him get setup with his scope and he connected to our amazement on his first round and then proceeded to do so 3 additional times.

Sorry to drag out the drama so far to what it actually was that he did this with but I just want you to have the same feeling of complete let down that we did at the time about our ultimate setups. Anyway the real bummer was that his rounds actually penetrated the steel and ours would only take the paint off the plate and in the case of 2 impacts in the same location the plate might get deformed by the 190s.

My whole point of all of the preceding is to open your mind up to thinking outside the box so to speak. He was shooting a standard 243 Win chamber with 107 Sierras. I know you are dealing with a mag faced long action re-barreling project but you might want to rethink altogether. In addition it is a very common caliber/availability, relatively decent barrel life and low recoil and fun to shoot even without a brake. Sectional density is often overlooked, 6mm is a great long range choice, look at how popular the 6BR has become at 1000Y. Run the ballistics with of the 115 Berger against the 6.5s and 7s figure in the cost of magnum performance, components, barrel life, recoil and it becomes hard to justify all the excess to gain so little over the woman's and beginner kid's kids deer rifle cartridge the totally forgotten 243 Win. Sell you action to someone who needs a magnum and build something fun to shoot that will kill armor plated aliens at a mile.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DT1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've just about worn out my barrel in my 300WM and have decided to explore another caliber for playing around with distances from 500-1000yds.

The action is a Remington 700 LA magnum in an AICS stock.

I've never explored any of the 7mm cartridges and am leaning toward something like 7mm WSM or just plain ol' 7mm Mag. I guess I could do either with my action. Any big advantages one way or the other? Ballistics look fairly similar.

The other caliber I'm considering is 6.5-284. I have a couple of 260 Remington's and like the performance I've gotten from the heavier (139-142gr) bullets. Might be fun to explore some faster velocities with the 6.5-284.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'd like to stick with a cartridge that's got brass readily available vs a wildcat that requires a lot of brass formation and prep</span>.

Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions.

David</div></div>

First, simplify it down the rifle you want to change to. The .300 WM. The easiest conversion is the 7 Rem mag. And it will give you good accuracy and when you reload it, neck size only so it headspaces off the shoulder. Back the loads off a tad if you want to save your barrel. FWIW, I have a 7 mm WSM and have now shot it to 2k (we killed an already dead car in the AMERICAN desert) Did you know: in 1968 a U.S. Navy shooter won (the Wimbledon) at Camp Perry? It's a capable round. No headache in changing over either. 5-10 gr. in saved powder going with the WSM. The Rem RSAUM is good. But, typical Remington, they don't support it.

When you wear out one of your .260's then think about the standard head size cases. .284 fits that BTW.

According to all the info I have the best bet for you would be to stay with the .260's. Less barrel wear than the 6.5-.284. It really about the optimal caliber with that case. You might go AI and get a smidge more power and case life. Yes I know that seems odd. But, the straight walls grip the chamber better, putting less pressure on the bolt.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

7WSM, 7SAUM, 7 Dakota, or 7mm RUM would be my choices. If you need the extra energy then the dakota or rum would be my choice. If not then the Short Mags would take the cake....
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

I am not using the AICS mags, However I am using the 7mm RSAUM cartridge,
with Berger 180 gr VLD's. I am jumping the lands .152 with excellent results.
Thing is that set that deep into the case you get an OAL of 2.945 thereabouts.
Since the VLD is about a tenth longer than the BT would this OAL work in your mags?
If it will, it is a fantastic combination. I am running 59gr of IMR 7828, BR-2 primer
Rem brass which I find to be quite good with a bit of sorting.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

3.5"..... then this would work for you. As I said, with the VLD I am at 2.945... the boat tail would be about 2.845 so that leaves you with considerable room to run the bullet out. It is my opinion though, that the 7 RSAUM, with its longer neck, and the bullet seated closer to a factory depth would likely provide for fine feeding in spite of the relatively sharp angle of the shoulder. I have fired the 7RSAUM from mag fed rifles
with the 180 Berger boat tail seated way out there.... and it still fed fine. Accuracy
with the suppressor installed was also superb although I only shot at 1000 yds with the suppressor on.
 
Re: Caliber suggestions for LR Rifle Build

I shoot a 7/300 WSM in a long action. Like Wild Bill said the advantages of the LA is you can seat the 180 Berger out further giving you more case capacity. As far as AI mags go you will have to use 338 lapua mags because the WSM case are to big diameter wise to feed from a WM mag. They feed great from an AI mag becuase it is a single stack mag. Only disadvantage is one can only get 5 rd mags so if you are shooting comps where your firing long strings this means more mag changes. No big deal just have to practice mag changes.
 
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