Calling Gardnervile-Carson City Nevada Fellow Shooters - Hands on Actions

[motobie]

Hi. I'm in the Gardnervile - Carson City, Nevada area. And wonder if anyone lives in Northern Nevada region have any of the following actions: Defiance, Kelbly Atlas Tactical, Bighorn TL3/Orgigin, Terminus Appollo/Zeus, BO M2013, or ARC Nucleus/Archimedes actions. If you are willing, I would like to have a close look at your rifle. I'm in a process of choosing a left-handed action. I want to cycle the bolts and see witch action I like best.

I recently have to switch to shooting left-handed. All of my rifles are right-handed except for one. Let me tell you where I'm coming from maybe, you can clue me in on what to expect. I'm used to shooting rifles with 90 and 60 degree lift bolts. I like Remington 700 bolt lift just fine. I also like some 60 degree bolt lift rifles like the SHR-970, SSG-08, and DT SRS. To me, the bolt in the SRS is a beast. The lift is heavy and the race way is not smooth at all. I love the DT SRS; it's a fine and accurate rifle but it's a beast. The bolts in the SHR970 and the SSG-08 are very smooth and the lifts on these two don't bother me, especially the SSG-08. And I think that the SSG-08 is a refined rifle.

So how much lighter is the Terminus's and Badger Ordnance's 60 degree bolt lifts compare to the SSG-08? Also are they cycling just as smooth or even smoother than the SSG? I am hopping that someone on this forum have had experience with these actions.

As with 90 degree bolt lift, are the mentioned 90 degree custom actions, smoother or the their lifts lighter than a R700's? How much smoother can I reasonably expect? I understand it's hard to quantify how much but please try to describe and compare anyway. I would appreciate it.

If you don't mind me pawing your custom actions, please reply here or PM me. Thanks.

 

[kthomas]

A big part of how the bolt lift and close may feel can be due to how the action interfaces with the trigger. Too much sear engagement (common, err on the side of tolerance stacking and liability), will increase felt bolt lift and close. If you do want to optimize the bolt lift/close, it's imperative that you either get your trigger timed by someone who knows what they are doing, or to get a trigger such as the BnA Tacsport, where you can replace the top sears with differing sear heights, along with the sear engagement adjustment that's available.

TL3's can have a very light bolt lift/close if the trigger properly matches up to it. I set a TT in a TL3, and it had horrendous bolt lift and close, waaaay too much sear engagement, would've definitely benefited from trigger timing (or a new trigger). As far as the options you are talking about, I currently have a Defiance with BnA tacsport, and an ARC Mausingfield (close to Nucleus) with BnA Tacsport, and they both have really light bolt lifts and close, because the trigger interface has been adjusted to be optimal. As far as how actions "feel", I would put any actions I own up against anything on the market.

If you want a pushfeed, another option worth considering is a Lone Peak Fuzion, very light bolt lift and close. To compare a custom to a R700, unless the R700 has a lot of work done to it (and I mean TacOps amount of work), the custom will always "feel" better. It's certainly a hard thing to quantify, and to some level it's subjective, but a custom action will feel night and day difference from a regular R700. The quality of craftsmanship, the tolerances, features, all make a custom very distinguishable from an R700. You'll see what I mean when you finally get your hands on some.

Each custom action does have it's own nuances. Firing pin strength, cocking ramp geometry, cock on close/open/both relationship, sear heights and compatibility with triggers, floating bolt heads, clearances, etc. will all make a difference on how an action "feels". The "feel" of an action is completely subjective and personal, everyone has their own preferences, and "feel" is a horrible way to quantify an action. Rather, look at all the features and determine what exactly you want, and make sure you get an action that has a history of quality machining, QA/QC and CS.

There's so many great top tier custom actions out there these days, that it's almost hard to pick a bad one.

 

[NWnewguy]

I've got every action you mention in your post except the Kelbly, which I have cycled and shot it 223 and it is pretty nice, especially for the money. Unfortunately, I live near Alubuqueruque so that's a little drive to cycle some actions. That being said, I think that if you take a spin in one of the ARC actions, you will be very impressed.

You didn't say what you're looking to use the rifle for primarily, but I use my Mausingfields mostly for hunting and another in 223 for square range matches and they have been my favorite action for a while. I have a couple of Nukes and they are pretty nice as well, but I got a couple of Archimedes pretty soon after and well, you can only shoot one rifle at a time. The Archimedes is quickly growing into my favorite and it's what I put together as a quick grab 223 for coyotes or anything else close to the house. I've tried a few different triggers on it and they've all worked and felt great (Trigger Techs and Tubb T7T). Arc also makes adjustable firing pin pieces so that they will have optimum cock on close or lack thereof with just about any trigger you want to run. Of note, the T7T won't fit in anything but a Foundation and the Xylo.

It's always surprising to me that ARC actions aren't more popular in PRS/NRL type matches. They cycle like it's their job, even with BR class cartridges and they just work. To be fair, all the actions you listed are really nice and the only one I don't have an affinity for is the TL3, but a lot of people love it, so that just goes to show, some people like Rocky Road and some like Cookie Dough.

Anyway, if you're ever running down I-40 East, give a shout and we can smack some steel in the back yard with anything you want.

 

[bfk4lyfe]

I have a GAP PPR (Defiance Tenacity) on order but won’t have it till January or so, depending on how long you want to wait. I’m in Reno every other weekend.

 

[motobie]

Thanks for the offer. It is too far of a drive for me. To answer your question, I mainly shoot groups at the range out to 300 yards and steel out to 1000 yards near Reno.

 

[motobie]

Thanks for the replies guys. After reading the posts here, I took out my Steyr and play with it again. There's less play than the stock R700 when the bolt is fully extended. I just have the weight of my palm on the bolt handle and push forward. The bolt is very smooth along the race way and it is as if the bolt wants to close in the action on its own. With just the weight of my hand on the bolt is all that would take to close the bolt. I wonder if any of your actions has that kind of bolt "feel."

I take out all the rifles I have and cycle the bolts just to refresh my perspective on things. I'm surprised that the lowly Remington 783's bolt raceway is pretty smooth but of course, it is also very loose, too. The K31 is smooth and the bolt runs even smoother with a dummy in the magazine. the SSG is still king of the heap. The DT SRS is still a beast. But it is the most accurate rifle I have. Many times the cold bore shot is dead center and following shots fall right on top of the first one. At first I thought it was lucky shots but I have done this many times. My brother in law has done this too. We are convinced the DT SRS has no shift on cold bore shots. It's crazy for a removable barrel action. If DT can make this action smooth like a R700, I wouldn't be looking for a new action rifle now.

I'm pretty sure any of the actions I am considering would function reliably. At this point it's more nit picking: mechanical ejector or spring loaded, CTF or push feed, mechanical ejector + m16 extractor+flat bolt like Kelbly Tactical. I'm picky because it will be a long time before I buy or build another rifle after this one.

It's kind of funny that I just realize my Savage MKII 22LR rifle has CTF with mechanical ejector. Who knew!? Again, thanks for your opinions, guys and gals.

 

[motobie]

bfk4lyfe, the way things are going, I might just take you up on that January show and tell. I am on a waiting list for a lefty Bighorn Origin at Northland Shooter Supply but there's no guaranty that there will be one or that I'll get one in late November shipment. I might end up with whatever action I can get.

 

[_Windrider_]

Badger or defiance. No brainer