Advanced Marksmanship Calling missed shots

EventHorizon

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 31, 2009
425
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NC
I'm wondering if there's a conventional way of estimating missed shots.

I helped a buddy zero his new scope today and with the aid of the berm directly behind the target it was a simple process. The first couple shots off paper were easily seen and adjustments made.

How do you sight misses when there's no convenient berm directly behind the target? Is it by the vapor trail? When the target is elevated off the ground and the bullet goes way past and impacts the ground is there some standard of proximating the needed adjustment? Is this just a matter of experience?

I realize this is a noob rich question but hey, nothing ventured...
 
Re: Calling missed shots

If they can observe actual impacts, a spotter can talk you into adjustments in the right direction.

Trace may be observable. If it is, focussing the spotter's optics to a point partway short of the target can improve the observer's view of the trace. The best way to pick up the trace is by watching from directly behind the shooter, and trying to catch it at the top of its arc. There isn o vapor trail. Rather, there is a momentary air disturbance that looks like a shimmering streak of mirage that's being tugged along by the bullet.

Another way to get some feedback is to hold the edges of the target with the reticle (bracketing) and firing. If any strike on paper, you then know which way your impact is off.

Failing all of these, you need to shoot a much shorter distance to see where the aiming error is. Once you're close at near distances, you can run the target out in stages, making logical (a little bit higher) sight adjustments for each increase.

Greg
 
Re: Calling missed shots

I shoot almost exclusively by myself so this is something I have a level of experience with. My target is a steel IPSC - so at a distance, it becomes pretty small.

A) Some backgrounds are better than others - dry conditions are definitely better than wet, upslopes better than flat, soft better than rocky, bare ground is better than brushy.

B) Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals - you have to learn to drive the rifle correctly such that you are able to observe the 'moment' of impact. Now if your POI is wet or brushy - you may not see the actual impact, but you visually need to be there in order to have the opportunity to witness the impact.

C) Power down - if you have a high mag optic - power down to allow for a wider field of view.

D) Play the odds - depending on one's ability to call wind, mikes are typically high. Also since you are watching the target it is easier to spot a low impact vs a high impact. If you are using a ballistic computer - you will begin to recognize a pattern of how that computer calls dope - is it typically high or low? Also how are you calculating distance? I have an LRF that goes to 1,200 (effectively more like 1,100), so when I am beyond this distance I am generally working off of GPS / Google Earth / Map / MIL reading - a 2% error at 1 mile means a lot in terms of dope on a 30"x19" target. Triple check the distance calc.

E) Use what is available to calc wind - I have used failing snow, rain, and even cloud movements. I shoot in mountainous areas and I know the wind is heavily influenced by the land features that I am shooting across or nearest. Thus I am interested in the action of the wind at the 1/2, 3/4's point, and at the target; but also nearest any significant land feature change near the path from shooting position and the target. Again - wind is akin to flowing water, visualize what water would do if it were to flow across the same land features that you are shooting across or nearest. Also, listen to the velocity changes of the wind as it pushes through the trees and grasses. Time the cycle of velocity changes. Note how the cycle changes during your shooting session. Study the wind pattern changes at various velocities. For example if you are shooting across a draw and the wind runs up it to the crest of a hill - at a lower velocity does the wind come up the draw and hit the crest only to boil back the opposite way at the top of the drawn? At a high velocity does the wind come up the draw and hit the crest and continue on in the same direction?

E) Understand and record predominate wind patterns in a given area and begin to recognize what land features generally have x effect on wind.

F) Worst case - like Greg said - bracket the shot.


Good luck
 
Re: Calling missed shots

Just to add,

Experience, time behind a particular rifle let's you understand the trajectory better, so even if you do miss, and you don't see the impact, or even a vapor trail you know where the trajectory should be...

As well you have the target size itself that helps determine corrections by knowing how far the impact will move you can estimate adjustments based on target size. Example if you have a 3/4 mil wide target, why make a 1/4 mil correction. use the real estate you have available to gauge the changes.

I have called adjustments at night with nothing but knowing the target size and the wind direction guiding shooters on target with a second round hit. More than once, You don't have to see it to know it. How people under estimate the wind, how big the target is, all plays a role.
 
Re: Calling missed shots

if you're missing the target completely, try this.

pull the bolt, set the gun (upper if AR) on the bags as steady as humanly possible...line the 4 sides up with the target (sight down the inner sides of the bore, top bottom then left and right. the further back you stand the better) now look through the scope without touching the gun and adjust the hairs to the target.

the hardest part is not moving the rifle when you move the scope, or seeing how much you moved the rifle.

Now the farther you get from the target the harder this gets to do. this works out to 200 for me.

As an RO I used to do this all the time and people were amazed how fast I could get a scope printing.
 
Re: Calling missed shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seanh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you're missing the target completely, try this.

pull the bolt, set the gun (upper if AR) on the bags as steady as humanly possible...line the 4 sides up with the target (sight down the inner sides of the bore, top bottom then left and right. the further back you stand the better) now look through the scope without touching the gun and adjust the hairs to the target.

the hardest part is not moving the rifle when you move the scope, or seeing how much you moved the rifle.

Now the farther you get from the target the harder this gets to do. this works out to 200 for me.

As an RO I used to do this all the time and people were amazed how fast I could get a scope printing.

</div></div>

I believe the original poster is talking about ranges well beyond 200 yards... this is not in the context of sighting a rifle in, you're talking about bore sighting a rifle used when you first set up the rifle for zeroing.

He is talking about spotting his shots downrange in order to make corrections for a follow up shot, and what to do when he doesn't see a vapor trail or impact next to the target in the dirt. When it's a complete unknown at longer ranges.

Drop and wind make bore sighting ineffective in this case.
 
Re: Calling missed shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to add,



I have called <span style="color: #FF0000">adjustments at night with nothing but knowing the target size and the wind direction</span> guiding shooters on target with a second round hit. More than once, You don't have to see it to know it. How people under estimate the wind, how big the target is, all plays a role. </div></div>that's kwai chang cane snatch the pebble kung fu shit master san
 
Re: Calling missed shots

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wondering if there's a conventional way of estimating missed shots.

I helped a buddy zero his new scope today and with the aid of the berm directly behind the target it was a simple process. The first couple shots off paper were easily seen and adjustments made.

How do you sight misses when there's no convenient berm directly behind the target? Is it by the vapor trail? When the target is elevated off the ground and the bullet goes way past and impacts the ground is there some standard of proximating the needed adjustment? Is this just a matter of experience?

I realize this is a noob rich question but hey, nothing ventured...</div></div>

Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe extensive practicing with a backstop/large berm, known target size and Kestrel should be the way to go until the necessary skills of wind calls and estimating ranges are mastered? A wise person once said "its OK to miss the target, its NOT OK to miss the berm". Whizzing bullets past targets/backstops are not a pleasant sound.
 
Re: Calling missed shots

I was basing my information on this:
"I helped a buddy zero his new scope today and with the aid of the berm directly behind the target it was a simple process. The first couple shots off paper were easily seen and adjustments made. "


If the person shooting as no idea where the gun is printing, they need to go to a shorter range to get an idea and work up from there. Maybe it's an unknown range? Get a RF or learn to use your reticle. Unknown ammunition/gun...shorter range.