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Can "pink eye" kill us now?

normbal

CPT USA (ret)
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 18, 2006
118
10
Silver Spring, MD
www.scribd.com
Pinkeye Was Only Symptom in Child Killed by Enterovirus - Bloomberg

This is so sad. What's sadder still is how many parents are going to be bringing in their kids for me to evaluate with "pink eye" who are going to say "do you think he has that virus, that entero thing?"

What do I tell them? That this kind of fluke immune system overreaction to viruses and other infections exists is well known. During the "Great Influenza" circa 1918-1919 there were well-documented cases of people whose first symptoms of "the flu" were to say "I don't feel well" and collapse, dead. That's not the virus, that's the vagaries of their own immune systems, their own genetic inheritance, at work. Some white cell somewhere says "oh no, it's that virus," and hits the panic button, starting a relentless cascade of unstoppable, lethal, chemistry. It's a cascade as old as the species, probably precambrian in origin.

Do I go into that much detail with the worried mom or dad? No. Do I try and reassure them as much as I can that "it's probably just a mild bacterial infection, as about 50% of all "pink eye" turns out to be, or do I join them in a "folie a deux" and call the emergency room for an admission for overnight observation for "pink eye?" Sure. That's not going to happen. Reassurance, eye drops, maybe an overnight vigil, two hours on, two hours off, Mom, Dad alternating "the watch," so they can see if anything bad happens they might want to call 911 for, but what else is there? Eye drops, a pat on the emotional back and out the door. That's going to happen.

One of the things I tell my patients when I have the time is everyone's immune system responds somewhat differently to the same virus. Where one family member may get a full-blown upper respiratory syndrome from, say, an enterovirus like Rhinovirus or Coxsackie, others may get only a mild fever, feel achey, out of sorts for a day or two and have nothing more than what we call a "subclinical illness." Did their immune system get exposed to that virus before and they had some residual "memory cells" floating around to respond rapidly to a viral invader or did they have a more effective "innate immune response" that recognized the virus? Had they simply won the genetic lottery through Darwinian evolutionary principles and had the DNA and subsequent proteins necessary to combat and survive the infection?

What is really fascinating - to me, academically - about viruses is where they come from. Sure, we like to think "bats" and other wild animals as reservoirs, but how long do humans carry viral infections within their bodies, spreading the dna or rna packets that are viruses as they go about their daily business? I like to think about how Spanish explorers brought common viruses - common to Europeans - to native Americans 600 years ago and how devastating those viruses were to the native populations. What viruses were those? Smallpox or head colds (rhinovirus, enterovirus)? Can you imagine a ship full of otherwise healthy seamen passing head colds around for the months' long voyage? Did every ship have a few guys who were sick on any given day or did the virus burn itself out but lie dormant, subclinical? I've got a sneaking suspicion that humans ARE intermediate vectors in MANY viral infections, not just the double-stranded DNA viruses we know for a fact that we can harbor for life (poxviridae like chickenpox and epstein-barr and cytomegalovirus - the latter two which cause "mononucelosis" and never leave the host once infected) but rna viruses as well. And if not in our own cellular DNA in our mitochondria or in the genome of one of the multitude of species of bacteria that live co-mensally in or on our body's surfaces. Why not?

If it's any consolation, one thing we've learned about viruses is - being careful not to apply any unnecessary teleology here - they gain no advantage by killing off all their hosts. They "adapt," and become less lethal. Ask the Australians why they still have rabbits after the myxoma virus was introduced to wipe them out in 1950. How did syphilis become less of a problem from the ravages of the rampaging, disfiguring organism it was in Europe when it was brought back from the new world by said same Spanish explorers and "conquistadores" and their - sniffling, sneezing, coughing - crew? Who - or what - conquered whom?

IF it's any consolation, thinking long-term is reassuring for me at least. I know Ebola HF, Marburg, Enterovirus D68, HIV will be with us for a long time to come but they won't kill all of us. If we're smart, we'll lock down borders, there will be survivors. We'll find vaccines, treatments, ways to not just cope but to survive. Just for historic value, look up Rudyard Kipling's 1905 story "As Easy as ABC" sometime.
 
Entero is going to be misdiagnosed until they get their standards together with the CDC(US Government). Good luck on that anytime in the near future.
The major point the Doc makes in the above, is the fact that the virus that comes from another continent will totally screw US up because we do not have the proper immune cells for it. Bottom line is, if you don;t want to get someone's germs, stay away from humans. The bad thing about this concept though is YOU will be the weak one when the SHTF because you left to stay safe and now do not have the immunity to fight it. Kinda messed up, ain't it!?
 
This all reminds me of the stories I've read of the plague in Europe and some were not infected/affected at all by the plague. And as of late, they have taken names from the past and taken dna samples of the recent relatives and have seen that they have a gene that made them immune to the disease.

I'm a fan of containment. But one day it will all come to an end. Trust me when I say this, I would rather be locked up inside my place rather than be out if something hit like the plague or the Spanish flu.

But eventually, somewhere and something will happen. Everything adapts and evolves. Everything "alive" consciously or by adaption "strives" for survival.

Until then, we will do what we always do and have the habit of doing. Stick a Band-Aid on it.
 
Look folks, the human body is a complete mishmash of native and foreign cells; some even estimate that the human cells in the human body constitute the minority.

A lot of those foreign cells are deadly, but never get to express their virulence because the Immune system keeps them at bay. The odds are not low that something that becomes an infection may have been lying under the radar for many, maybe hundreds of, cellular generations. Just having the pathogen present is usually not enough to permit it to foment. It takes that and a combination of favorable conditions as well as a dip in immune system efficacy to allow the infection to flourish.

Having had cancer of the immune system (Lymphoma) twice, one gets a force fed education in immunology. My entire subsequent lifestyle has had to be built upon a foundation of reinforcing my immune system and avoidance of the conditions that favor infection; because when I come down with something, it's a long, hard fight back to normal health. When I miss an event when the weather is harsh, it's not because I'm some sorta namby-pamby; its a conscious act of self preservation.

Odds say that it's as much the stress of travel as the presence of the pathogen that actually foments the active infection. Many, maybe most of us, walk around with deadly pathogens running around our bodies, all being successfully suppressed by the immune system. It's usually the exception, rather than the rule, that lays us low.

And when the pathogen is as deadly virulent as Ebola, the odds shift against our favor.

I use the term 'cell' above to describe both bacterial and viral agents.

Greg
 
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"Enterovirus"

What develops when 60,000 unquarantined people "entero" the country illegally.
 
"Enterovirus"

What develops when 60,000 unquarantined people "entero" the country illegally.

Yep, along with a resurgence of TB, drug resistant TB, bedbugs, scabies, and now enterovirus. I'm sure cheap lettuce and strawberries and votes are worth it though.
 
"Look folks, the human body is a complete mishmash of native and foreign cells; some even estimate that the human cells in the human body constitute the minority."

When I was an undergrad in the 80s, it was estimated there were about 400 some odd species of bacteria "in" our bodies. I use the word "in" figuratively, as topologically, our gut is contiguous with our skin, the entire surface and legions of specialized white cells just below their surface functioning as the first layer of defense for our bodies against other organisms "designed" to feast off the rich organic stew our blood and other tissues present to them.

As time and the fields of genetics, microbiology and molecular biology progressed, we were told there were over a thousand "species."

Just about two years ago reports came out that the number - as bacterial species were reckoned - was over ten thousand.

The matter of scale is interesting to note here as well. If a human cell were the size of a basketball, a single bacterial cell might be the size of a peanut or smaller. Viruses? The size of the period at the end of this sentence.

Human bodies are estimated to be about ten trillion cells total. That's everything from red and white blood cells, skin cells, brain, muscle, everything. That said, there are STILL ten times as many bacteria living on us than there are cells making up our bodies.

To rephrase and reiterate and support what Greg said, this means that ONLY ten per cent of the cells we think of as "our bodies, ourselves" are human.

And of those bacteria? Raising their little bacteria colonies, feeding, feasting on the remnants of the cells and sweat and electrolytes and mucus and other debris we shed daily, minding their own business they produce vast amounts of antibiotics, growth inhibitors for other, more aggressive organisms which would eat their lunch and chase them away.

Every time you take an antibiotic you not only kill off the "bad bug" but you decimate (in the proper latin sense of the word) species of bacteria which can and do protect you from the worse agents that often take their place.

We all carry around several species of Staphylococcus (epidermidis, saprophyticus, et. al), only 30% of the population carries Staph. aureus. 2% carry CA-MRSA. In the UK by some estimates over 60% of that population carries MRSA.

"
Just having the pathogen present is usually not enough to permit it to foment. It takes that and a combination of favorable conditions as well as a dip in immune system efficacy to allow the infection to flourish."

That's right. A dip in immune function, breakdown of natural protective mechanisms, reduction in protective colonies of other organisms, overwhelming numbers of pathogens can ALL do us in, but hey, they were here first, for over a billion years by some estimates longer, and they'll be here long after we return to dust.

Just to help put this in perspective.

 
"Look folks, the human body is a complete mishmash of native and foreign cells; some even estimate that the human cells in the human body constitute the minority."

When I was an undergrad in the 80s, it was estimated there were about 400 some odd species of bacteria "in" our bodies. I use the word "in" figuratively, as topologically, our gut is contiguous with our skin, the entire surface and legions of specialized white cells just below their surface functioning as the first layer of defense for our bodies against other organisms "designed" to feast off the rich organic stew our blood and other tissues present to them.

As time and the fields of genetics, microbiology and molecular biology progressed, we were told there were over a thousand "species."

Just about two years ago reports came out that the number - as bacterial species were reckoned - was over ten thousand.

The matter of scale is interesting to note here as well. If a human cell were the size of a basketball, a single bacterial cell might be the size of a peanut or smaller. Viruses? The size of the period at the end of this sentence.

Human bodies are estimated to be about ten trillion cells total. That's everything from red and white blood cells, skin cells, brain, muscle, everything. That said, there are STILL ten times as many bacteria living on us than there are cells making up our bodies.

To rephrase and reiterate and support what Greg said, this means that ONLY ten per cent of the cells we think of as "our bodies, ourselves" are human.

And of those bacteria? Raising their little bacteria colonies, feeding, feasting on the remnants of the cells and sweat and electrolytes and mucus and other debris we shed daily, minding their own business they produce vast amounts of antibiotics, growth inhibitors for other, more aggressive organisms which would eat their lunch and chase them away.

Every time you take an antibiotic you not only kill off the "bad bug" but you decimate (in the proper latin sense of the word) species of bacteria which can and do protect you from the worse agents that often take their place.

We all carry around several species of Staphylococcus (epidermidis, saprophyticus, et. al), only 30% of the population carries Staph. aureus. 2% carry CA-MRSA. In the UK by some estimates over 60% of that population carries MRSA.

"
Just having the pathogen present is usually not enough to permit it to foment. It takes that and a combination of favorable conditions as well as a dip in immune system efficacy to allow the infection to flourish."

That's right. A dip in immune function, breakdown of natural protective mechanisms, reduction in protective colonies of other organisms, overwhelming numbers of pathogens can ALL do us in, but hey, they were here first, for over a billion years by some estimates longer, and they'll be here long after we return to dust.

Just to help put this in perspective.


What if everything we see, hear, think of and know as our entire Universe - the Milky Way, The galaxys, the cosmos, the things we love and hold dear - are just the last drip from some bigger beings cock as he wipes it on the hotel curtain after banging a skanky ho?

So mote it be.
 
What if everything we see, hear, think of and know as our entire Universe - the Milky Way, The galaxys, the cosmos, the things we love and hold dear - are just the last drip from some bigger beings cock as he wipes it on the hotel curtain after banging a skanky ho?

So mote it be.

You make it sound more fun than the reality... :D
 
You can't get Ebola unless a patient has symptoms. Or so we're being told.


Bullshit.


I just posted something over on this virology blog I hope will start a shitstorm.


We're being lied to folks. Not like that's news, but this is another nail in the coffin.


Of course there's still nothing we can do about it, just feed our resentments.


Acute viral infections

NormB • 8 minutes ago
And, the virology phrase of the day is: "inapparent infection".


Just think. Some viruses can replicate in a human host and spread throughout the environment infecting unsuspecting people.


Some viruses. Some rna viruses. Some enteroviruses.


And the CDC's director, Dr. Thomas Frieden keeps telling us Ebola can't be spread unless the host has symptoms.


Really? And he knows this is 100% true, every time, every patient.


We know for a fact that dogs can carry and shed Ebola virus and they don't get sick.


Is he telling me that 100 percent, ALL human immune systems function 100% exactly the same way and this, his, hypothesis has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt?


He seems to be. And he also keeps saying CDC/WHO know how to contain, control, prevent the spread of the epidemic, that they've done it before. He said that this past week, and last spring. About five countries and three continents ago.


I think someone isn't connecting the dots here.


"So as not to cause a panic" goes the punchline of the old Russian cold war joke (joke being, what to do in case a nuclear attack is imminent? Put on your burial shroud and walk slowly to the cemetery. Why?)


Maybe this is why Major Barrett was overheard talking to White House spokesmen about Ebola and he said "We're fracked."


[My bona fides: physician, undergrad phi beta kappa regent's scholar cum laude graduate, skeptic.]


*******************
The article:


Acute viral infections
13 FEBRUARY 2009
102961732_223f281698_mAn acute viral infection is characterized by rapid onset of disease, a relatively brief period of symptoms, and resolution within days. It is usually accompanied by early production of infectious virions and elimination of infection by the host immune system. Acute viral infections are typically observed with pathogens such as influenza virus and rhinovirus. Ebola hemorrhagic fever is an acute viral infection, although the course of disease is unusually severe.


Often an acute infection may cause little or no clinical symptoms – the so-called inapparent infection. A well-known example is poliovirus infection: over 90% are without symptoms. During an inapparent infection, sufficient virus replication occurs in the host to induce antiviral antibodies, but not enough to cause disease. Such infections are important for the spread of infection, because they are not easily detected. During the height of the polio epidemic in the US, the quarantine of paralyzed patients had no effect on the spread of the disease, because 99% of the infected individuals had no symptoms and were leading normal lives and spreading infection. Inapparent infections probably are important features of pathogens that are well-adapted to their hosts. They replicate sufficiently to ensure spread to new hosts, but not enough to damage the host and prevent transmission.


Acute infections begin with an incubation period, during which the genomes replicate and the host innate responses are initiated. The cytokines produced early in infection lead to classical symptoms of an acute infection: aches, pains, fever, malaise, and nausea. Some incubation periods are as short as 1 day (influenza, rhinovirus), indicating that the symptoms are produced by local viral multiplication near the site of entry. For some infections, incubation periods can last many days (papilloma, 50-150 days) or even years (AIDS, 1-10 years). In these infections, the symptoms are likely produced by virus- or immune-induced tissue damage far from the site of entry.


An example of a classic acute infection is uncomplicated influenza. Virus particles are inhaled in droplets produced by sneezing or coughing, and begin replicating in ciliated columnar epithelial cells of the respiratory tract. As new infectious virions are produced, they spread to neighboring cells. Virus can be isolated from throat swabs or nasal secretions from day 1 to day 7 after infection. Within 48 hr after infection symptoms appear; these last 3 days and then subside. The infection is usually cleared by the innate and adaptive responses in 7 days. However, the patient usually feels unwell for several weeks, a consequence of the damage to the respiratory epithelium, and the cytokines produced during infection.


Acute viral infections are responsible for epidemics of disease involving millions of individuals each year, such as influenza and measles. When vaccines are not available, acute infections are difficult to control – most are complete by the time the patient feels ill, and the virus has already spread to another host. This characteristic makes it exceedingly difficult to control acute infections in large populations and crowded areas (such as colleges, nursing homes, military camps). The outbreaks of norovirus gastroenteritis this winter – a classic acute infection – highlights the problem. Antiviral therapy cannot be used, because it must be given early in infection to be effective. There is little hope of treating most acute viral infections with antiviral drugs until rapid diagnostic tests are become available. But the point is moot – there are no antivirals for most common acute viral diseases.


The rapid clearance of acute viral infections is a consequence of robust host defenses. The same virus may cause a long-term, or persistent infection, in immunocompromised hosts. An example is norovirus infection, which is self-limiting in immunocompetent hosts, but causes a chronic infection in immunosuppressed kidney transplant recipients. We will consider the characteristics of persistent viral infections in another post.


Westhoff, T., Vergoulidou, M., Loddenkemper, C., Schwartz, S., Hofmann, J., Schneider, T., Zidek, W., & van der Giet, M. (2008). Chronic norovirus infection in renal transplant recipients Nephrology Dialysis Transplantation, 24 (3), 1051-1053 DOI: 10.1093/ndt/gfn693
 
Viral latency, as opposed to incubation. Note that currently, latency is not attributed to Ebola.

Introduction to Ebola (1999). Note also that Ebola is not one viral strain, but four (now five per the current CDC Fact Sheet), and that some of the four(five) may even be separate viral species.

Filoviridae is the only known virus family about which we have such profound ignorance. We do not even understand the maintenance strategies employed in nature by the agents, and we know much less about the resulting diseases, their pathogenesis, and detailed virology. The information gathered during control efforts directed toward recent epidemics has provided considerable fundamental information about filoviruses.

A number of colleagues, both in the laboratory and in the field, agreed to prepare reports reflecting recent research, thus permitting this supplement to the Journal of Infectious Diseases, which provides a single source for substantial new, peerreviewed information. We have somewhat arbitrarily divided the supplement into the categories of clinical observations; epidemiology and surveillance; ecology and natural history; virology and pathogenesis; experimental therapy; control, response, prevention; and conclusions. “Ebola,” however, is not just one Ebola: There are 4 distinguishable subtypes, whose phylogenetic tree is shown on page iii of this supplement [1–3]. Because the subtypes, which may even be different virus species, have differing properties, we have grouped the papers by the subtype discussed within each subject area.

CDC Fact Sheet

Per this CDC Fact Sheet, Ebola is now found in twelve African nations:

• Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC)
• Gabon
• South Sudan
• Ivory Coast
• Uganda
• Republic of the Congo (ROC)
• South Africa (imported)
• Guinea
• Liberia
• Sierra Leone
• Senegal
• Nigeria

On a personal note, I carry MRSA following a post operative infection immediately following my CABG (X4). My treatment involved thoracic surgical curettage and lavage, 3 weeks of hospitalization with the chest incision propped open while a vacuum bandage was employed, and reoperation to close and rebuild my sternum with bone grafts. For me, this is all just another part of my 'normal'.

My Wife has engaged VRSA, involving a months-long hospitalization for what was initially taken to be Cellulitis. She was comatose and subject to continuous dialysis in ICU for in excess of 3 weeks, spent additional weeks recuperating and regaining her faculties, and was finally then sent to a nursing home and as well as an orthopedic rehab facility. Her psychological recovery is complete, but she still walks with cane/roller assistance. A major part of her continuing debility is a direct result of her body's own out of control immune response. The origin of her infection remains unknown, with some vague reference to shellfish.

Including the above and my two Lymphomas, we two have accrued and managed (with immense help from Medicaid) over $1M in medical expenses since 1991.

Greg
 
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