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Gunsmithing Can you headspacewith a fired case

LC 6.5 Shooter

Apollo 6 Creed
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Minuteman
May 29, 2018
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League City, TX
I have a savage rifle I put a 6.5 cm barrel on. I borrowed a go no go gauge to install barrel. After I gave the gauges back the barrel nut came loose. I have fired cases, can I just spin barrel on until it touches the fired case to headspace it again?
 
I'd be concerned about how your barrel nut came loose, but to answer your question, a fired case can get you close. First measure it with the correct comparator gauge to establish its length. SAAMI max headspace is 1.541". If your fired case is less than that, you should be fine. If anything, you are likely to end up with shorter headspace. Test fire one round, measure that case, you don't want it to be any longer than your fired case measurement.

And torque down that barrel nut.
 
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There are web sites where you can rent head space gages. I've used them before building mausers. You buy the gauge and when you send it back they keep a fee of the refund.
 
Go gage is all you need. Brass is easy to push back as you screw barrel on. You can fill a case with epoxy, this solves crushing shoulder, assuming you have a case that is correct size to begin with. Go gage's are relatively cheap, especially if it's in a caliber you shoot alot.
 
When I want to headspace to fired brass, I usually measure the shoulder of the brass and compare it to the headspace gauge, and calculate the final headspace gauge measurement I want for that brass. The goal is generally so the shooter doesn't have to adjust his shoulder bump on his die when changing barrels.
 
Just buy a go gage and a roll of scotch tape (1 layer of tape on the head of the go gage and you have a no go gage) and be done with it. With you asking about buying a no go, or trying to set headspace with fired brass seems to indicate some lack of knowledge of the process. Spend the money on the right tools the first time and learn to use them properly. Be safe.
 
+1 on go guage and scotch tape I’ve done dozens this way. A go guage isn’t a huge investment and easy to get rid of you don’t need. Headspace isn’t something to fuck around with.
 
Yes, you can do that for a go gauge for your chamber. Then cut a layer electrical tape for a field/no go since you are using a fired case.
 
+1 on go guage and scotch tape I’ve done dozens this way. A go guage isn’t a huge investment and easy to get rid of you don’t need. Headspace isn’t something to fuck around with.


Lets do a little experiment. I take a cartridge out of the box and fire it through a gun known to have a qualified HS dimension. Now, I size that case only I'm a goof and I have my die set way to close to the shell holder. Pick a number, it doesn't matter.

Later I pull the barrel and reinstall it. I use that case to set it back up. It may work fine, but the HS is now too tight because I used a case that was shoulder bumped too far. If I attempt to run OEM brass through it again, I'll likely have a problem.

Now, the inverse.

My gun was fuggered up from the start but I don't know it. The HS is too deep. I pull the barrel for whatever reason and now decide to stick it back on. I use one of those fired cases again as my gauge, and as you suggested, use a piece of tape to serve as the clearance.

The scotch tape I have in my office measures .0035" in thickness. With most HS gauges the difference between GO and NO GO is .004".

That would be issue number #1.

#2:

The HS value was already too long in this scenario, but we don't know it. I use my fired case as the gauge and add the tape. We know now that were at minium, +.0035" from the minimum accepted value. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker for sure. The issue is, we started with a chamber that was already too deep. -Then we added .0035" to whatever that is.

In the real world you can shoot this and in almost every circumstance it'll be fine. No "smile, wait for flash" episodes where your racing to the hospital to reattach your face. In this case, The Devil waits to rear its ugly face after you've gained some false confidence. (cause he's a dick like that)

The issue comes later as you attempt to size the brass. Firing it robbed material from the web feature on the case. It used that portion of the case to make it longer so that it could fill up the vacant area.

The details of how this works:

Case is sitting in chamber. Striker contacts primer, case begins to scoot forward until its stopped by either the throat or the shoulder. Primer is detonated and case begins to expand from the rise in pressure. Case body is now locked against chamber wall because it has "stiction" and quite a bit of square footage for contact. The head of the case is not seated against the bolt face. Pressure continues to rise...

Now its high enough so that the brass yields. It deforms like plastic. It stretches to fill the empty void. The web is where this stretching takes place because its not supported by anything. It literally hangs in space on the ass end of the barrel. Pressure is determined to find something for it to push against. The case head is searching for the face of the bolt. As a consequence, the web feature cross section is now thinner. -BUT, we don't know this. (yet)

Were done for the day, we go home, and we start prepping brass for the next outing. You set your dies up off the original setup, but its too short. -Again, you don't realize this. (yet, its coming...) So you bang away on shoulders, finish it up, and go back the following free moment to shoot.

Roulette wheel time. Maaaybe you get lucky and it works, maybe you start popping case heads like pimples. The brass will at some point give up the goods and show you the mistake you made in judgement. Its usually within 3 firings. Sometimes you get lucky and get 4.

When it fails, the head of the case splits from the case body. It makes a mess, fire checks the shit out of stuff, and usually murders the extractor. You get a face full of garbage and hopefully it ends there. I know of two instances where folks ended up in the ER with one of those poor souls being prepped for surgery.

$40 or so bucks on a HS gauge solves all of this. Anyone of us will spend at least that much this week on shitty drive through lunches.

Take it seriously and save your face, your gun, your sanity.

C.
 
Lets do a little experiment. I take a cartridge out of the box and fire it through a gun known to have a qualified HS dimension. Now, I size that case only I'm a goof and I have my die set way to close to the shell holder. Pick a number, it doesn't matter.

Later I pull the barrel and reinstall it. I use that case to set it back up. It may work fine, but the HS is now too tight because I used a case that was shoulder bumped too far. If I attempt to run OEM brass through it again, I'll likely have a problem.

Now, the inverse.

My gun was fuggered up from the start but I don't know it. The HS is too deep. I pull the barrel for whatever reason and now decide to stick it back on. I use one of those fired cases again as my gauge, and as you suggested, use a piece of tape to serve as the clearance.

The scotch tape I have in my office measures .0035" in thickness. With most HS gauges the difference between GO and NO GO is .004".

That would be issue number #1.

#2:

The HS value was already too long in this scenario, but we don't know it. I use my fired case as the gauge and add the tape. We know now that were at minium, +.0035" from the minimum accepted value. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker for sure. The issue is, we started with a chamber that was already too deep. -Then we added .0035" to whatever that is.

In the real world you can shoot this and in almost every circumstance it'll be fine. No "smile, wait for flash" episodes where your racing to the hospital to reattach your face. In this case, The Devil waits to rear its ugly face after you've gained some false confidence. (cause he's a dick like that)

The issue comes later as you attempt to size the brass. Firing it robbed material from the web feature on the case. It used that portion of the case to make it longer so that it could fill up the vacant area.

The details of how this works:

Case is sitting in chamber. Striker contacts primer, case begins to scoot forward until its stopped by either the throat or the shoulder. Primer is detonated and case begins to expand from the rise in pressure. Case body is now locked against chamber wall because it has "stiction" and quite a bit of square footage for contact. The head of the case is not seated against the bolt face. Pressure continues to rise...

Now its high enough so that the brass yields. It deforms like plastic. It stretches to fill the empty void. The web is where this stretching takes place because its not supported by anything. It literally hangs in space on the ass end of the barrel. Pressure is determined to find something for it to push against. The case head is searching for the face of the bolt. As a consequence, the web feature cross section is now thinner. -BUT, we don't know this. (yet)

Were done for the day, we go home, and we start prepping brass for the next outing. You set your dies up off the original setup, but its too short. -Again, you don't realize this. (yet, its coming...) So you bang away on shoulders, finish it up, and go back the following free moment to shoot.

Roulette wheel time. Maaaybe you get lucky and it works, maybe you start popping case heads like pimples. The brass will at some point give up the goods and show you the mistake you made in judgement. Its usually within 3 firings. Sometimes you get lucky and get 4.

When it fails, the head of the case splits from the case body. It makes a mess, fire checks the shit out of stuff, and usually murders the extractor. You get a face full of garbage and hopefully it ends there. I know of two instances where folks ended up in the ER with one of those poor souls being prepped for surgery.

$40 or so bucks on a HS gauge solves all of this. Anyone of us will spend at least that much this week on shitty drive through lunches.

Take it seriously and save your face, your gun, your sanity.

C.

Well put Chad! This is the precursor to people posting "anyone have a small-base die for 338LM because I can't rechamber once-fired brass from my Savage 110BA" trash.
 
A picture to go with Chad's post. Luckily I caught this during prep. All that brass is now scrap metal:

cKmUoaRwpI4w3CroYDxVT-uRXdtm9p_tEvA10IbfAPRqhE1Ca9Sae1YugKLB0AANDM3m32HQs0TGvUTAZwqZbcmwh2fUZlG_R6DnffBTKLsF_VGGd-_X-u5fkKcqQjYoAPDZ81fu6FmCDFwGXbyGitGDiw6gXXEwMT5fq5Zp25vuRQBPddljmT84FzOGTegn833rwjripz4RK0nCjxub-zSuxMjwwmoy45oflQlt6XxLkKPBSaxEhRJplq-Z0VWC2uVfXZrTND-B-Ssc4SF6_b9KFb8o1YitW-8TwQiR0F0-fx5MWWPvOhAEb0nw03PgNwOnLht0hOkHvzXjWUtkYOXPi_9RPaoQVk0Y54qj9LxRqO5UYma3WNBxeLvE9ek6top6TH22nW9v-urL9AEMCxDCl3xCqmH0WFaCpXAcz6qjiHslkYqNkScjUsSwLwMKpsfuD6oh-CoiSvyt7xrMDEIMGJxrc2YIvIUMiXFcCGhEw2b29w-Q9yH1ySFBPrjCIOVWHFjfXrYkk2a8FJogIr58J-J9CquOfauKOaSFE2pLU4ylIhJxVM-GaqGEDNT9wJ6-UijPtCbpyEs7ZokyMgjqNjUH6zqLz6a_--yzUL1Y225BHerT7bnG61uJj__8a3VDF1rtFHzts1Igr9FwFgydWM_PkDSZbzoSs97-8Xb-MDe5831zYmjv-bM63Lgkyf-3TYDP_CI6Un8eFK-qlmZ7P0qap_MUkQIuNyMU13Srg3VZaQ=w1024
 
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I did exactly as Chad described in the beginning of his post.

Long story short, my first loads were test loads and used a new bullet; and some reloading never-do's were ignored.

First round, pressure signs. Second round, stiff bolt. Third round, blown primer.

Familiarity may not breed contempt, but it sure can bring complacency.

I got off lucky; everything and everyone came out intact. No evidence of incipient head separations. The loads were pulled down, the brass was discarded, and a new batch was initiated. For all intents, whatever followed with that barrel was to be treated as initiating a new rifle.

The barrel was spun off and the gun was set aside. New H/S gauges arrived.

Everything (including loading dies) was set up again using proper gauges. The rifle shoots again, and the load got developed.

Age is supposed to breed wisdom. Sometimes, that's actually true.

Bottom line, buy and use the proper gauges, and be sure you know how to use them properly. H/S gauges and case gauges go together as a set. Chad may not know it; but from now on, he's my Guru.

Greg
 
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I have a savage rifle I put a 6.5 cm barrel on. I borrowed a go no go gauge to install barrel. After I gave the gauges back the barrel nut came loose. I have fired cases, can I just spin barrel on until it touches the fired case to headspace it again?
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Ya it works, and have done it few times . you can use use a piece of fired brass from that chamber to head space . have done it and just take plunger spring out . adjust thread the Barrel + /- . Let the bolt handle fall till feel just the 'tiniest amount' of resistance that will hold the bolt handle up on it's own . Never had any problems .
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