Canadian Ranger rifles in the Arctic need replacements, don’t work in the cold

stanley_white

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  • Feb 24, 2008
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    Canadian Ranger rifles in the Arctic need replacements, don’t work in the cold

    By Emma Tranter

    Department of National Defence says replacements will cost $8-10M

    Rifles issued to the Canadian Rangers in Canada’s Arctic don’t work properly in the cold — and it’s going to cost millions to fix.

    C-19 rifles were distributed to the Rangers, who serve the Canadian Armed Forces in the North, in 2017.

    Canada’s Department of National Defence (DND) told CBC News in an email that extreme cold led to the stocks — a part of a gun attached to the barrel and firing mechanism that provides structural support — expanding and contracting. Something the department said Rangers noticed during testing in 2019.

    “Following reports from Canadian Rangers after extended field usage in extreme climatic conditions leading to cycles of expansion and contraction in the stock,” Alex Tétreault, a senior communications adviser with DND, wrote.

    “This was not observed during initial operational capability training; it only became apparent in the last two months before the end of deliveries.”

    Those stocks now need to be replaced and the department estimates that will cost between eight to $10 million.

    The department said the C-19 rifle “remains an effective and accurate weapon” and that some of the rifles are still working properly and don’t need replacements.

    The procurement process for the new stocks is underway and the delivery of the new stocks will be phased over three years.
     
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    Seems to me the c19 has a quality issue, not a wood issue. Shitty laminate glue, or shitty outer finish, etc.
     
    Jeez…..8-10$million? How many Canadian Rangers are there?

    I’ve no clue what a C-19 is. It looks like a Tikka CTR in a laminate stock and iron sights, but for $10 million, please tell me it’s something way fancier!
     
    Bite your tongue!

    View attachment 8711894



    Seems to me the c19 has a quality issue, not a wood issue. Shitty laminate glue, or shitty outer finish, etc.
    You think, the Canadian ARMY might ask the FINNs........ How they can get a gun to work in the cold.
    WWI cough
    WWII cough
     
    $8million at $1000/stock, and this is a high estimate for a wood laminate stock, would mean they have 8000 rifles. They have about 5000 Rangers. Someone is getting fucked on the deal. Even replacing with a chassis with plastic skins is stretching it for $1000.

    Well, it is Monopoly money north of the border so maybe $1000 is about right. IDK.
     
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    You would have thought that the finns would know how to make a rifle that can survive arctic weather.

    [edit] Never mind, it’s actually built by colt canada under license. I think they were selling them at 4K CAD per unit which is insane for what it is.
     
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    I doubt if it is a lubrication problem.

    Cold rifles brought into warm areas form condensation on all surfaces, and when they go back out the condensation freezes if they were not wiped down properly. Even a cold wood stock got wet, and I wonder if that's what happened to these rifles. Moisture everywhere, expanding and contracting.

    When I lived in Two Rivers (Fairbanks), we had a humidifier running constantly. The first winter we didn't have one, and wood furniture inside got so dry the wood split. I remember one night we thought we heard a rifle shot in the house, and when we investigated, the leg on grandma's 1923 dresser had split longwise. When I told the story at work, all the sourdoughs said to get a humidifier. Been up in the way north a few times, never saw natives with humidifiers. They might have been there, but I never saw any.

    When we went hunting, we kept a rifle in the RV or tent for bear defense. But the rifles we were hunting with stayed outside for the most part, or were wiped down and light oil on surfaces every night before bed. Bolts and any springs got graphite, but if any moisture got in there, the graphite became a gray sludge.

    Rifles going from cold to hot and back a lot are prone to problems.

    Ever ask yourself why the Rangers are using peep sights vs. scopes? Peeps don't freeze.

    In Fairbanks, the temps ranged from a high (when I lived there) of 92* F to a low of -62* F. That's hard on equipment.
     
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    I doubt if it is a lubrication problem.

    Cold rifles brought into warm areas form condensation on all surfaces, and when they go back out the condensation freezes if they were not wiped down properly. Even a cold wood stock got wet, and I wonder if that's what happened to these rifles. Moisture everywhere, expanding and contracting.

    When I lived in Two Rivers (Fairbanks), we had a humidifier running constantly. The first winter we didn't have one, and wood furniture inside got so dry the wood split. I remember one night we thought we heard a rifle shot in the house, and when we investigated, the leg on grandma's 1923 dresser had split longwise. When I told the story at work, all the sourdoughs said to get a humidifier. Been up in the way north a few times, never saw natives with humidifiers. They might have been there, but I never saw any.

    When we went hunting, we kept a rifle in the RV or tent for bear defense. But the rifles we were hunting with stayed outside for the most part, or were wiped down and light oil on surfaces every night before bed. Bolts and any springs got graphite, but if any moisture got in there, the graphite became a gray sludge.

    Rifles going from cold to hot and back a lot are prone to problems.

    Ever ask yourself why the Rangers are using peep sights vs. scopes? Peeps don't freeze.

    In Fairbanks, the temps ranged from a high (when I lived there) of 92* F to a low of -62* F. That's hard on equipment.
    Frequently taking the rifles in and out of climate controlled spaces is what came to mind when reading the article between the lines.
     
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    I doubt if it is a lubrication problem.

    Cold rifles brought into warm areas form condensation on all surfaces, and when they go back out the condensation freezes if they were not wiped down properly. Even a cold wood stock got wet, and I wonder if that's what happened to these rifles. Moisture everywhere, expanding and contracting.

    When I lived in Two Rivers (Fairbanks), we had a humidifier running constantly. The first winter we didn't have one, and wood furniture inside got so dry the wood split. I remember one night we thought we heard a rifle shot in the house, and when we investigated, the leg on grandma's 1923 dresser had split longwise. When I told the story at work, all the sourdoughs said to get a humidifier. Been up in the way north a few times, never saw natives with humidifiers. They might have been there, but I never saw any.

    When we went hunting, we kept a rifle in the RV or tent for bear defense. But the rifles we were hunting with stayed outside for the most part, or were wiped down and light oil on surfaces every night before bed. Bolts and any springs got graphite, but if any moisture got in there, the graphite became a gray sludge.

    Rifles going from cold to hot and back a lot are prone to problems.

    Ever ask yourself why the Rangers are using peep sights vs. scopes? Peeps don't freeze.

    In Fairbanks, the temps ranged from a high (when I lived there) of 92* F to a low of -62* F. That's hard on equipment.

    Adding to this, some model 1917s were converted from peep sights to standard irons because even the rear peep would fill with ice and snow and they couldn't see through it
     
    Do we know for sure these C19 rifles are Tikkas? Tikka is a Finnish company, Finland has very similar weather conditions to Canada, so it's a bit hard to believe the rifles are at fault- could it be the Canadistanis screwed up the specs?
     
    Aren’t the contract guns made under license in Canada? It’s been a minute but I seem to remember that.

    Might be why the test guns worked great. Finland isn’t known for its tropical vibes.
     
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    Aren’t the contract guns made under license in Canada? It’s been a minute but I seem to remember that.

    Might be why the test guns worked great. Finland isn’t known for its tropical vibes.
    Pretty sure you are correct on this, licensed to be manufactured in Canada. One would think it would be made to the same specs but you never know. For instance, what if the stocks are being manufactured in Canada and some regulation required a different adhesive for the laminate? Just a hypothetical scenario.