Casing very hard to press into die?

[Grizzdude]

Last night I cleaned up my new redding 338 lapua die S type FL and set it all up on my rock chucker(about 3 spins backed out from where it would just touch the shell holder). I took a casing, lubed it up and put soot on the shoulder. Put it in the die, went smooth but no marks. screw it down a full turn, Ths time the casing was feeling very tight almost like my table would break if I tried to shove it in. I completely disaseembly the die and reinstall it as a body die. This time i installed it all the way down to the shell holder as the instutions say (this should be to manufacturer spec right?), Same thing. when the ram is pushing up the casing and the shell holder is about 1/4" to 1/8" away it just gets real tight literally requiring like 75# of force and it still won't go in. Pulling it out was just as hard. The casing upon inspection never touched the shoulder, and it seems that right at the soulder line where it meets the casing it is getting little nick/rough spots. I've never seen this or heard about something like this. When I put the casing in the rifle I still feel resistance, not like a new loaded round that goes in with no resistance. So I was unable to bump the shoulder back at all. Could it be a faulty die? Thanks for your help

 

[milo 2.0]

Grizz,
Can we get a pic?
Also, if you have new unfired case, measure just above the base, then check a fired unsized one, let us know what the diff is.
I don't think Redding's QC is what it used to be, but it shouldn't be the die.

 

[Fuzzball]

You mean cases, "casings" are for deep wells and link sausages.

Try properly putting some sizing lube on the cases, especially the lower half, and try again.

 

[insight3b]

The larger cases are very difficult to size and require a lot of force. I would clean the die with brake cleaner and then sparingly lube the inside of the die with the same case lube you use to resize.

 

[wayno1]

don't forget to lube the inside of the neck a little if your expander is dry...

 

[Grizzdude]

The larger cases are very difficult to size and require a lot of force. I would clean the die with brake cleaner and then sparingly lube the inside of the die with the same case lube you use to resize.

That's pretty much what I did. I used frankfort case lube in the spray bottle. I sprayed the inside of die, let it dry. I've tried multiple times, lubing up the case and trying again. I've just never seen anyone have to put all their weight on the handle to get the case in the die. I would need a steel table and then If it did get it I don't think it would come out considering how much force I have to use to pop the case out of the die when it's still not all the way in. I'll get a few pics up in a bit. Milo I'll go measure just above the base on an unfired and fired round and I'll post that as well.

 

[milo 2.0]

Before you do get one to go in, back your die of atleast 1'4 turn, most Redding dies don't need to contact shellholder, save you from bumping your shoulder too far.

 

[Grizzdude]

Before you do get one to go in, back your die of atleast 1'4 turn, most Redding dies don't need to contact shellholder, save you from bumping your shoulder too far.

With it is backed out 2 turns is when it get's real tough, It doesn't even touch the shoulder to size it at that point. With soot on the shoulder it never shows any marks on the actual shoulder.

 

[338RUM runner]

Just my .02 but try some RCBS caselub 2 works great in my 50 BMG and they are tuff to size without it, Dillon caselub is also good.

 

[Grizzdude]

Clean everything thoroughly again lube and leave the soot out of the equation.

See how it goes. Carbon is not helping here.

Regards,

Steve

I have done this also, the past 20 tries has been without the soot. I do have some rcbs lube that I can try also. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[19Scout77]

Imperial...

 

[BruceN]

Imperial...

+1 on the Imperial.

Be real careful about cleaning EVERYTHING when you change between lubes. If you want to see a case get REALLY stuck then have some RCBS spray lube in your die and use Hornady spray lube on the case. Rubbing alcohol works good for cleaning.

 

[wayno1]

I also used some sizing wax on the neck, inside of neck.
Also pulled the die and took it apart.
Found a ring of brass inside the die, apparently when compressed a piece too hard and it somehow left brass in the die.

 

[judgedelta]

+2 on the Imperial. If it don't fit, don't foce' it.....

 

[milo 2.0]

Jeez Grizz,
The suspence is killing me??

 

[Grizzdude]

Jeez Grizz,
The suspence is killing me??

Ok so i set up the camera to make a little video to show you guys what I'm talking about. So I sprayed the die and case with lube, powered the camera, and it went in and sized smooth as butter. I then set the die to match my rifles chamber, So I go to size the next case, lube it up real good, and sprayed the inside of die again and up it goes..........and stays there. Stuck case. So I drilled and tapped it and pulled it out with a bolt washer and socket. That took a few hours right there. Weird because the die was really lubed and so was the case but it got stuck? I thought too much lube would dent the case? So now It's time to clean up the die and try again. It seemed once I sprayed a lot of lube on the case and die that first case resized very nicely, even the stuck case went all the way in no problem. Maybe the die needs to soak up a good amount of lube, the metal may be very dry and soaking up the lube possibly?

 

[Fuzzball]

Dies are not porous, they don't soak up anything. Get the case lubed correctly and all will be well.

Read and follow the lube instructions. Shake your spray lube so it's well mixed with the propellent, spray it on the cases and inside the die, allow the propellent to fully evaporate and your cases will all size like butter. If it takes a lot of pressure to get a case to go in, consider that difficulty as a hint that you just may not have gotten the lube correct.

You cannot get enough lube of any kind inside a case neck to help it enter a sizer smoothly and without sticking.

 

[milo 2.0]

First, did you replace the expander ball to the black one in the die box, not a big deal here. When you lube a case, lube the bottom of the case, the neck and shoulder realy don't need lube. When you run it up in the die, just work it in steps, go so far, back it out, spread lube with fingers, do it again. Don't just ram it up in there.
Did you take measurements?
I'm thinking you have grossly oversized chamber, and the base of the case is where it's sticking, only a measurement will tell you.

 

[Deadshot2]

When you first run a case into a sizing die, the expander ball has a nice big hole to fit in. When you run as sized case into the sizing die the case neck is a little smaller than the expander ball due to spring back from the first sizing. This can add to the force required, especially if you didn't re-lube the case for the second, third, etc trip through the sizing die.

If you're trying to trying to adjust the die for shoulder "bump" be sure to re-lube after every trip through. I've been known to even remove the de-priming rod and exxpander ball to make sure I don't knock any burrs off the neck while repeatedly adjusting the die while running a case in multiple times.

Did I mention, Re-Lube. Just be careful to make sure you don't put excessive lube on the neck or shoulder or you'll end up with dents.

Imperial Sizing Wax and Hornady Unique are great lubes for "High Pressure" sizing. Some have even used a little EP 90 gear oil, a very light film, to make tough sizing jobs a little easier.

 

[milo 2.0]

When you first run a case into a sizing die, the expander ball has a nice big hole to fit in. When you run as sized case into the sizing die the case neck is a little smaller than the expander ball due to spring back from the first sizing. This can add to the force required, especially if you didn't re-lube the case for the second, third, etc trip through the sizing die.

If you're trying to trying to adjust the die for shoulder "bump" be sure to re-lube after every trip through. I've been known to even remove the de-priming rod and exxpander ball to make sure I don't knock any burrs off the neck while repeatedly adjusting the die while running a case in multiple times.

Did I mention, Re-Lube. Just be careful to make sure you don't put excessive lube on the neck or shoulder or you'll end up with dents.

Imperial Sizing Wax and Hornady Unique are great lubes for "High Pressure" sizing. Some have even used a little EP 90 gear oil, a very light film, to make tough sizing jobs a little easier.

He's using a bushing die, unless his case mouths are dinged up, he doesn't need an expander, or lube on it.

 

[FLIGHT762]

The Frankford may be a good case lube, but I tried Cabela's similar lanolin/alcohol lube and it didn't work. Cabela's lube didn't have enough lanolin in it. Not nearly as well as Dillon lanolin/alcohol. I mixed in a little Dillon into the Cabela's and it helped. I don't have any experience with the Frankford lube.

If you don't have any Imperial wax, I've used Chapstick as a substitute yes, It actually works. Kiwi "Mink Oil" in the tin will also work. You are sizing a big case. Properly lubed cases using a Redding bushing die without the expander ball in, the cases should run smoothly in and out of the die. Try another lube.

That's my .02¢.

 

[NoFail]

I hear soap actually works well, like Dawn. Get soap film on your fingers and lube like any other. But first let the soap dry to a film like lube. I haven't tried it. I'm using the Frankford spray currently & it's working just fine in a Forster FL.

 

[P7id10t]

+2 on the Imperial. If it don't fit, don't foce' it.....

Crush it in there!

 

[former naval person]

Forget the spray you are using. I use home made spray, but when things get too tight, a mix, 50/50, of STP and anhydrous lanolin will do the deed. Warm up the two in a pan, stir them together, and let cool. Rub on the case with fingers or a stamp pad.

 

[Beyschaefer]

Clean your die again.. Apply Imperial Sizing Wax to the case sparingly, and away you go.
I've had spotty results with other lubes. some, no doubt, due to my using too much or too little, but I always have better luck judging how much Imperial I'm getting on the case.

 

[Grizzdude]

First, did you replace the expander ball to the black one in the die box, not a big deal here. When you lube a case, lube the bottom of the case, the neck and shoulder realy don't need lube. When you run it up in the die, just work it in steps, go so far, back it out, spread lube with fingers, do it again. Don't just ram it up in there.
Did you take measurements?
I'm thinking you have grossly oversized chamber, and the base of the case is where it's sticking, only a measurement will tell you.

Hi Milo, I haven't changed to the black expander ball, it looks really small compared to the regular one installed in the die? I took measurements, I don't remember the numbers but the base expanded about .004-.005 compared to a non fired new lapua case. I didn't think that was too much, what do you think? I'll have to look into getting some imperial wax, thanks a lot for the help and advise everyone!

 

[milo 2.0]

Grizz,
I'd have to say .005" is within range, much no, I don't have a .338, so nothing to compare. But going off a 7mm saum reamer specs, and measured new brass, it's 5 thou. You should try get the reamer specs, if brass is over that you'll know.
Do replace the ball unless the mouths are dinged up.

Be glad it's not the chamber, that's a bummer, I've had 4 oversized chambers on custom guns, it sucks. I really don't think it's your die, but I might be wrong.
Every thing you're going through is what happened to me with a .338 snipetac, getting the brass into the die was a job, the brass looked like birdseye maple when it came out, it would polish up though.
Like i said before, work it up slow, in steps, lubing as you go. If you ever figure out what it is, let us know.

You might throw this out in gunsmithing section, a smith can tell you for sure if 5 thou is too much, in my case no, but????

 

[milo 2.0]

Grizz,,
Aren't you the owner, or high up in Grizzly Manufacturing? If you are, chuck that die up and polish it with some scotchbrite or micro mesh.
And why aren't you building your own guns?

 

[Grizzdude]

Sure thing milo, I'll post here when I figure out what it is. I've been busy so I'm going to try to clean the die up tonight and try again. not affiliated with grizzly manufacturing, I wish I had a shop to make my own guns, hopefully in the future that can happen.

 

[milo 2.0]

A case of mistaken identity, sorry.

 

[fish30114]

I don't think that lube is your issue at all. Even without lube you should be able to get a case all the way into your die--getting it out might be a different issue without lube though. I second the imperial die wax suggestion, I use that or Unique case lube from Hornady. How is your expander set up? I suspect that could be your issue, if you have the expander up high in the die, it can be pinching your case at the neck shoulder junction. That could also account for the marks you are getting on your cases at that area. I agree with the suggestion of cleaning your die completely and polishing/turning down your expander, then use Imperial--screw all the secret recipes, although you can use some synthetic motor oil to get you by for now. be sure you have the expander assembly set low in the die, and then try things, and let us know how things go.
Good luck!

 

[Jhnmdahl]

I seem to recall my new dies being a little on the stiff side for the first 50-100 cases or so, which I attributed to annular rings on the inside of the die from being machined. The die looked a little shinier and operated more smoothly after being broken in (and with plenty of Imperial wax...).

John

 

[Grizzdude]

Good news guy's! I cleaned up the die this afternoon, and successfully sized about 20 cases. I followed the working it up in steps suggestion with plenty of lube. I'd give the case a little spin each time and after around 3 presses into the die it goes all the way in and back out very smooth. Thanks for all your help everyone!

 

[cmh2007]

Dude imperial is about the slickest stuff ever. I got a lot of 7.62 machine gun brass that i almost couldn't resize using RCBS, Lyman, or Hornady. Swapped to Imperial, and right in, then right out...