• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

CED M2 Questions

D

dvdt

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 13, 2009
646
5
Dallas,TX
I really need a chronograph. I'm thinking of the CED M2 based off the reviews on here. I'll mainly use for rifle load development outside but covered shooting area. I'd also like to use this indoors for pistol, I was planning on buying the IR screens. Let's assume my range doesn't have a 110v outlet.

I have some of questions:


What kind of batteries do I need for this config?
Do I really need to spend $50 bucks on their rechargeable batteries?
Do I still need a 9V battery to power the CED M2 unit regardless of the IR screens?
I was planning on ordering from www.cedhk.com since it appears they have them in stock. Any bad experiences? Any other vendor I should check out?
Anyone have some pictures of this config ?
Anything special I need to mount this puppy to a tripod?

Thanks!
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

9v batteries for the "brain". My recommendation would be to remove the 9V after you download your data, and place it back in for next use. There is a bit of drain on those 9v if left in even with the unit off IME.

Not sure on the IR. However, I recall seeing some folks make a converter to run the IR off of a battery pack rather than 110v in cases where the range had no power nearby.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind of batteries do I need for this config?</div></div>

9V alkaline for the Display Unit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do I really need to spend $50 bucks on their rechargeable batteries?</div></div>

No.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do I still need a 9V battery to power the CED M2 unit regardless of the IR screens?</div></div>

Yes.

The IR screens run on a separate 12V DC source. You either:
1) Plug supplied adapter into AC wall outlet.
2) Buy CED's $50 12V rechargable battery pack.
3) Build/Buy your own 12V power (ex: cycle battery, disposible battery pack, pb-acid battery (radio shack). Some people even went from 12V battery --> DC-AC power inverter --> AC wall outlet plug (BACK to 12V DC) --> IR skyscreen. This is really unnecessary. A 12V sealed lead-acid battery and a battery tender (charger) would do the job better.
The top hits in GOOGLE provide a $21 solution.
http://www.amazon.com/1-2AH-SEALED-LEAD-BATTERY-UNIVERSAL/dp/B002CILA66
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G8A...TBK3AH0G0R5EW31

The only thing missing is a female (barrel) power plug if you don't want to hack-up your IR power cord. I can help you with that if you want.

Note that with lead-acid, you need to keep the cell charged. Other battery technologies won't care if they sit long periods discharged. I can substitute a battery too. Lead-acid is cheap and it works. They also have a high di/dt :p

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was planning on ordering from www.cedhk.com since it appears they have them in stock. Any bad experiences? Any other vendor I should check out?</div></div>

As you know, the CED website is vauge.

1) The CED shipping rates are high ($22).
2) The english speaking ability of lady on the phone sucked.
3) If you want IR, you have to buy the main set with the normal sky screens. The IR set does NOT come with the base or sensors. You cant just buy a dedicated base display unit and IR screens.
4) If you buy just the base display unit, it does'nt come with the data cable or CD.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone have some pictures of this config ?</div></div>

The main unit looks like a cheap promo gift (ex: alarm clock calculator) you get at a seminar or the free gift for ordering a knife set.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anything special I need to mount this puppy to a tripod?</div></div>

No. But cheap bipods while elevated will sway.

HTH
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

I shoot where there is no 110 power but my truck is always available. Can I take power from my truck battery?

DO NOT CONNECT THE IR TOPS DIRECTLY TO A 12 VOLT VEHICLE BATTERY. The battery's high current output will fry the circuitry and void your warrantee. The IR screens require no more than 12 to 13 volts and about 350ma. Radio Shack sells a 12 volt power converter for about $15 that will work with the IR Upgrade. Solder 25-50 ft. of double stranded speaker wire on the output side of the converter then a power plug on the end of the wire that will connect to the IR sensors Y cable. Make sure you match the polarity output of the 110v/230v power supply. Replace the 1 amp fuse in the converter with a 1/3 amp fuse so you do not overpower the IR emitters. I also suggest super gluing the voltage selection switch on the converter to 12v. Now if your truck is within 25-50 ft. of the screens, you are in business.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

Wow. Thanks Boomholzer. I appreciate your feedback.

It sounds like I'm headed to the rat shack to pick up a 12V battery and appropriate connectors.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

another place to purchase is shooter's connection

link--http://shootersconnectionstore.com/Chronographs-C331.aspx
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot where there is no 110 power but my truck is always available. Can I take power from my truck battery?

DO NOT CONNECT THE IR TOPS DIRECTLY TO A 12 VOLT VEHICLE BATTERY. The battery's high current output will fry the circuitry and void your warrantee. The IR screens require no more than 12 to 13 volts and about 350ma. Radio Shack sells a 12 volt power converter for about $15 that will work with the IR Upgrade. Solder 25-50 ft. of double stranded speaker wire on the output side of the converter then a power plug on the end of the wire that will connect to the IR sensors Y cable. Make sure you match the polarity output of the 110v/230v power supply. Replace the 1 amp fuse in the converter with a 1/3 amp fuse so you do not overpower the IR emitters. I also suggest super gluing the voltage selection switch on the converter to 12v. Now if your truck is within 25-50 ft. of the screens, you are in business. </div></div>

You can't destroy the skyscreens by connecting them to a power source that can supply high current. In the configuration sold by CED they won't draw any more current than they need to operate. According to CED this is about 350mA. You CAN destroy your sky screen by connecting them to a higher voltage source than what they are rated for. I would surmise that your vehicle battery charging system voltage is about 14.6 VDC. And thats probably enough to fry em, if CED did not build in an overvoltage device/regulator. Just get the skyscreens and get a small rechargeable sealed lead acid battery. like this one
BG micro -12v battery Get a charger from the same place charger One of these power jacks and your in business. There's probably cheaper ways too...
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot where there is no 110 power but my truck is always available. Can I take power from my truck battery?

DO NOT CONNECT THE IR TOPS DIRECTLY TO A 12 VOLT VEHICLE BATTERY. The battery's high current output will fry the circuitry and void your warrantee. The IR screens require no more than 12 to 13 volts and about 350ma. Radio Shack sells a 12 volt power converter for about $15 that will work with the IR Upgrade. Solder 25-50 ft. of double stranded speaker wire on the output side of the converter then a power plug on the end of the wire that will connect to the IR sensors Y cable. Make sure you match the polarity output of the 110v/230v power supply. Replace the 1 amp fuse in the converter with a 1/3 amp fuse so you do not overpower the IR emitters. I also suggest super gluing the voltage selection switch on the converter to 12v. Now if your truck is within 25-50 ft. of the screens, you are in business. </div></div>

You can't destroy the skyscreens by connecting them to a power source that can supply high current. In the configuration sold by CED they won't draw any more current than they need to operate. According to CED this is about 350mA. You CAN destroy your sky screen by connecting them to a higher voltage source than what they are rated for. I would surmise that your vehicle battery charging system voltage is about 14.6 VDC. And thats probably enough to fry em, if CED did not build in an overvoltage device/regulator. Just get the skyscreens and get a small rechargeable sealed lead acid battery. like this one
BG micro -12v battery Get a charger from the same place charger One of these power jacks and your in business. There's probably cheaper ways too... </div></div>

No offense, but I think these guys know what they are talking about:

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/CEDMQA.htm#A16

That's where my post came from.

You've got it backwards. Its amps thats will fry it like those guys said not voltage. Voltage is the pool of energy available, amperage is how much is transferred at a time.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

I was thinking about buying one but if that's how much they know about electronics, I think I'll have to pass.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xr650rRider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking about buying one but if that's how much they know about electronics, I think I'll have to pass. </div></div>

Who are you talking about, the guys from the link I posted are right, not the guy that thinks it's voltage that fries the electronics... voltage doesn't even get transferred, current does.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot where there is no 110 power but my truck is always available. Can I take power from my truck battery?

DO NOT CONNECT THE IR TOPS DIRECTLY TO A 12 VOLT VEHICLE BATTERY. The battery's high current output will fry the circuitry and void your warrantee. The IR screens require no more than 12 to 13 volts and about 350ma. ... </div></div>

You can't destroy the skyscreens by connecting them to a power source that can supply high current. In the configuration sold by CED they won't draw any more current than they need to operate. According to CED this is about 350mA. You CAN destroy your sky screen by connecting them to a higher voltage source than what they are rated for. I would surmise that your vehicle battery charging system voltage is about 14.6 VDC. And thats probably enough to fry em, if CED did not build in an overvoltage device/regulator. Just get the skyscreens and get a small rechargeable sealed lead acid battery. like this one
BG micro -12v battery Get a charger from the same place charger One of these power jacks and your in business. There's probably cheaper ways too... </div></div>

No offense, but I think these guys know what they are talking about:

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/CEDMQA.htm#A16

That's where my post came from.

You've got it backwards. Its amps thats will fry it like those guys said not voltage. Voltage is the pool of energy available, amperage is how much is transferred at a time. </div></div>

Here's a question for ya. Does your car or truck have a radio? Does that radio draw 400 - 500 amps? According to you if its connected to a vehicle battery that can supply 500 amps, it will draw it. How many amps is the fuse for your car radio? 10amps? If it draws 500 amps why doesn't the fuse blow?

And in regards to voltage and current, you have it exactly backwards. Think of electricty in a circuit like water in a pipe. Voltage is how much pressure is on the water and current is how big the pipe is. With the IR screens in question at 12v 350mA you have TINY pipe under a little pressure. But this whole discussion is governed by Ohms Law and in this case the formula for power: P(watts)=I(current)*E(voltage) in this case it 4.2watts. Put simply, if you exceed that amount of wattage by increasing your voltage you will release the magic smoke from your electronics.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

Current is actually how much water is flowing when the valve is opened. A bigger pipe has the "potential" to flow more water at a given pressure.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

I would'nt worry about the car battery. Maybe a potential issue while the vehicle was running due to the higher working voltage set by the voltage reg off the alternator.

If the bias point of the IR LEDS is so high that the ESR of the $50 battery sets the current (CC), the whole thing is a total POS. Since the run current is a stated 350mA, that is not the case.

 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot where there is no 110 power but my truck is always available. Can I take power from my truck battery?

DO NOT CONNECT THE IR TOPS DIRECTLY TO A 12 VOLT VEHICLE BATTERY. The battery's high current output will fry the circuitry and void your warrantee. The IR screens require no more than 12 to 13 volts and about 350ma. ... </div></div>

You can't destroy the skyscreens by connecting them to a power source that can supply high current. In the configuration sold by CED they won't draw any more current than they need to operate. According to CED this is about 350mA. You CAN destroy your sky screen by connecting them to a higher voltage source than what they are rated for. I would surmise that your vehicle battery charging system voltage is about 14.6 VDC. And thats probably enough to fry em, if CED did not build in an overvoltage device/regulator. Just get the skyscreens and get a small rechargeable sealed lead acid battery. like this one
BG micro -12v battery Get a charger from the same place charger One of these power jacks and your in business. There's probably cheaper ways too... </div></div>

No offense, but I think these guys know what they are talking about:

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/CEDMQA.htm#A16

That's where my post came from.

You've got it backwards. Its amps thats will fry it like those guys said not voltage. Voltage is the pool of energy available, amperage is how much is transferred at a time. </div></div>

Here's a question for ya. Does your car or truck have a radio? Does that radio draw 400 - 500 amps? According to you if its connected to a vehicle battery that can supply 500 amps, it will draw it. How many amps is the fuse for your car radio? 10amps? If it draws 500 amps why doesn't the fuse blow?

And in regards to voltage and current, you have it exactly backwards. Think of electricty in a circuit like water in a pipe. Voltage is how much pressure is on the water and current is how big the pipe is. With the IR screens in question at 12v 350mA you have TINY pipe under a little pressure. But this whole discussion is governed by Ohms Law and in this case the formula for power: P(watts)=I(current)*E(voltage) in this case it 4.2watts. Put simply, if you exceed that amount of wattage by increasing your voltage you will release the magic smoke from your electronics. </div></div>

OMG, this is high school physics if not middle school. Current is NOT how big the pipe is, that is resistance, current is the flow rate. Voltage is the pressure or how big the pool of water is, more voltage, more weight/force, more pressure. The equation we are talking about is V=IR, we are not talking about watts or power. The high voltage you are talking about damaging the circuit is meaningless without considering resistance, those two components translate into current, what is actually transferred and can damage the circuit.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

LEDs are non-linear.

Besides, I don't see what this lengthy Ohm's law discussion has to do with anything.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LEDs are non-linear.

Besides, I don't see what this lengthy Ohm's law discussion has to do with anything. </div></div>

The OP asked about what batteries can be used with the CED M2. I posted some information from this FAQ about the M2 http://www.shootingsoftware.com/CEDMQA.htm#A16. "Jumper" apparently did not agree with what the tech people who wrote that FAQ said and tried to explain it with his faulty physics logic, throwing out analogies that are just plain wrong and equations that are not relevant.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LEDs are non-linear.

Besides, I don't see what this lengthy Ohm's law discussion has to do with anything. </div></div>

The OP asked about what batteries can be used with the CED M2. I posted some information from this FAQ about the M2 http://www.shootingsoftware.com/CEDMQA.htm#A16. "Jumper" apparently did not agree with what the tech people who wrote that FAQ said and tried to explain it with his faulty physics logic, throwing out analogies that are just plain wrong and equations that are not relevant. </div></div>

Ok dude whatever you say. I guess I successfully made my own IR skyscreens for my CED Millenium just out of dumb luck.
P1010042.jpg


P1010048.jpg


DSC00001.jpg
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

dan RSI should have said that the vehicle's charging system could produce high enough voltage to fry the electronics. Some charging systems put out close to 15v which will fry them.

Jumper how's the project working out? Thanks for the info. I have got all the parts to make my own just haven't started yet. I am going to try a little different arrangement and see how it works.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

They work great. I tested them with a bunch of different ammunition and it would register every shot no matter where I placed it. I made sure to test them with some 69gr SMK's from my .223 because RSI says this caliber and the HPBT bullet profile is the hardest to detect. It got every one.

When you get around to putting yours together post some pics. And PM me if there is something I can help with.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jumper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boomholzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LEDs are non-linear.

Besides, I don't see what this lengthy Ohm's law discussion has to do with anything. </div></div>

The OP asked about what batteries can be used with the CED M2. I posted some information from this FAQ about the M2 http://www.shootingsoftware.com/CEDMQA.htm#A16. "Jumper" apparently did not agree with what the tech people who wrote that FAQ said and tried to explain it with his faulty physics logic, throwing out analogies that are just plain wrong and equations that are not relevant. </div></div>

Ok dude whatever you say. I guess I successfully made my own IR skyscreens for my CED Millenium just out of dumb luck.
</div></div>

I don't know about that but the info you stated about current is just wrong. Giving advice that could potentially damage someones equipment is not something I ignore.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dan RSI should have said that the vehicle's charging system could produce high enough voltage to fry the electronics. Some charging systems put out close to 15v which will fry them.

Jumper how's the project working out? Thanks for the info. I have got all the parts to make my own just haven't started yet. I am going to try a little different arrangement and see how it works. </div></div>

High voltage means nothing, it's the current that will damage the circuits. Voltage without resistance is only half the information needed. Voltage does not fry the electronics. Voltage does not get transferred from the battery to the IR screens, current does.
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
High voltage means nothing, it's the current that will damage the circuits. Voltage without resistance is only half the information needed. Voltage does not fry the electronics. Voltage does not get transferred from the battery to the IR screens, current does. </div></div>

I have to disagree with the above.

The load or the IR screens will have a bias point set by the working voltage. This will determine the current to some extent (depending on IR skyscreen design). Having a high-capacity, low ESR battery capable of high amperage doesn't automatically "inject" high current into a given load.

The voltage can set the load-current however in this case, Ohm's law will not get you the right answer. The result isn't linear. With LED's the best way to design the skyscreens is with constant current regulation into the LED's (load) with a wide acceptable range of input voltages. I doubt the CED design includes the added $ for the circuitry. The design is most likely a bank of IR leds with series resistances to limit the forward current.

Like I posted previously, I would not fear hooking the IR screens to a car battery. There could be something to the concern with the vehicle running. I have a trick 35A/hr sealed cell in a ammo-can I use for all sorts of small shit. It can source enough current to smoke 99% of consumer electronics.

Your theory is no different then replacing a 50mA 12V wall-wort with a 1A, 12V wall-wort. As long as the voltage regulation is in specification and the load or device doesn't have any transient issues on start-up (poor design); the added beef of the source is invisible to the load.

As to the dynamics of smoking electronics, the failure mode largely depends on the device. Very low current and high voltage (kV) can destroy many semiconductor devices.

I am a EE if it matters...
 
Re: CED M2 Questions

Boomholzer -

Thanks for the post, it was very informative. I tried to send you a PM but it looks like your inbox is full. So this post is a little off topic. But I have a question about regulating current and LED's. If I limit current with say, an LM317 constant current regulator, in a series LED array, how will fluctuating input voltage affect light output? The reason I ask, is I want to maintain as even a light output as possible as my battery discharges. Its been my experience that as the light conditions change on the non-IR CED skyscreens so does the velocity reading. My PM inbox still has room if you prefer to reply there.
smile.gif


Jumper
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Repair CED M2 chronograph sensor
Replies
0
Views
187
mendiola_loyola
M
B
SOLD Pulsar DFA75 with 10x32 Monocular
Replies
6
Views
345
Bmitchell448
B
J
SOLD Labradar with accessories
Replies
1
Views
303
combatgrunt84
combatgrunt84
nikonNUT
Night Vision PVS-14 black boxing question.
Replies
8
Views
197
Lowdown3
L
K
Helping a Newbie, Seating Question
Replies
21
Views
336
ktm131rob
K
Top Bottom
Back