Changing my reloading process. Please critique

[bllistc]

I'm reloading .308 for an LMT MWS. I've been using a forster full length sizing die and have had pretty good accuracy (0.75 - 1.0 MOA ) but it is not always consistent and my SD's tend to be in the mid teens. I just got a redding type S full length bushing die and will set neck tension to 0.002. Here's my planned process

4x fired Lapua brass
Fed 210M primer
42.5gr varget
175gr SMK


1) Dry tumble brass
2) Lube and de-prime with Lee universal decapping die
3) Resize with redding S-type die, neck tension set at 0.002
4) Tumble for 15-20 mins to remove lube
5) Anneal
6) Trim to 2.005" if needed
7) Prime cases
8) Charge with chargemaster lit
9) Seat bullets to 2.815" (Mac mag length)

Thoughts/critiques?

 

[straightshooter1]

I'm reloading .308 for an LMT MWS. I've been using a forster full length sizing die and have had pretty good accuracy (0.75 - 1.0 MOA ) but it is not always consistent and my SD's tend to be in the mid teens. I just got a redding type S full length bushing die and will set neck tension to 0.002. Here's my planned process

4x fired Lapua brass
Fed 210M primer
42.5gr varget
175gr SMK


1) Dry tumble brass
2) Lube and de-prime with Lee universal decapping die
3) Resize with redding S-type die, neck tension set at 0.002
4) Tumble for 15-20 mins to remove lube
5) Anneal
6) Trim to 2.005" if needed
7) Prime cases
8) Charge with chargemaster lit
9) Seat bullets to 2.815" (Mac mag length)

Thoughts/critiques?

I'd highly recommend you do you're annealing before you do any dry tumbling (cleaning) as the heat from the annealing leaves an oxidized residue that increases seating pressure (the neck grip has more resistance to letting loose of the bullet when fired). Of course, instead, you can always lube the neck or bullet (like with a dry lube) before seating to overcome this issue.

My particular procedure is to decap as the first order of business, then anneal followed by dry tumbling with medium grain rice as a media. Keeping the seating resistance low helped with my consistency and lowered my SD's.

 

[30cal user]

1)de-prime with Lee universal decapping die
2) Dry tumble brass
3)Anneal
4)Resize with redding S-type die, neck tension set at 0.002
5)Trim to 2.005" if needed
6)Tumble for 15-20 mins to remove lube
7) Prime cases
8) Charge with chargemaster lit
9) Seat bullets to 2.815" (Mac mag length)

 

[jet_lagged]

You want on anneal prior to sizing, not afterward, or you will not have any neck tension.

 

[bllistc]

Ah ok. I didn't realize that about annealing. @straightshooter1 do you think the second cleaning cycle to get the lube off would also work for getting the oxidation layer off the brass from annealing?

Thanks for the replies fellas.

 

[straightshooter1]

Ah ok. I didn't realize that about annealing. @straightshooter1 do you think the second cleaning cycle to get the lube off would also work for getting the oxidation layer off the brass from annealing?

No.

If your resizing process as put lube onto the inside of the neck, then the second cleaning cycle will leave a little bit of that lube covering the inside neck surface, which will mitigate the issue some. The oxidation layer will remain under what's left of the lube.

If your resizing process does not put any lube onto the inside of the neck (only the outside), then the second cleaning cycle will deposit a very small amount of lube on the inside surface of the neck. It helps. . . a little.

In any case . . . why not anneal first, since you're going to do it anyway, then clean the brass so that the oxidation (which is also on the outside of the neck and shoulder) doesn't find a way to interfere with any resizing process despite the lube? It just seems most logical to me to do the annealing first so any negative things about annealing will be taken care of by the rest of the prep process and take advantage of positive things annealing brings to the table.

 

[bllistc]

No.

If your resizing process as put lube onto the inside of the neck, then the second cleaning cycle will leave a little bit of that lube covering the inside neck surface, which will mitigate the issue some. The oxidation layer will remain under what's left of the lube.

If your resizing process does not put any lube onto the inside of the neck (only the outside), then the second cleaning cycle will deposit a very small amount of lube on the inside surface of the neck. It helps. . . a little.

In any case . . . why not anneal first, since you're going to do it anyway, then clean the brass so that the oxidation (which is also on the outside of the neck and shoulder) doesn't find a way to interfere with any resizing process despite the lube? It just seems most logical to me to do the annealing first so any negative things about annealing will be taken care of by the rest of the prep process and take advantage of positive things annealing brings to the table.

Gotcha. I'm using the annealeez and they recommend against annealing with dirty cases to prevent residue buildup on the wheels. Not sure how much it will actually affect the function so I'll try it as you said.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Gotcha. I'm using the annealeez and they recommend against annealing with dirty cases to prevent residue buildup on the wheels. Not sure how much it will actually affect the function so I'll try it as you said.

I would never anneal a case with carbon buildup on the outside of the neck. Tumble it off first. Carbon can act as an insulator, maybe not even annealing the necks. Being you have flame, you can view the difference between a clean case and one with carbon buildup on it.

 

[straightshooter1]

Gotcha. I'm using the annealeez and they recommend against annealing with dirty cases to prevent residue buildup on the wheels. Not sure how much it will actually affect the function so I'll try it as you said.

I actually use an Annealieez too, so that's a good point about dirty cases running through such a machine. I reload bolt guns only and the cases never really get dirty (going directly from chamber to ammo box) except around the necks from the firing. If my cases were being ejected into dirt or whatever, I'd probably do a quick cleaning with a dry tumbler too. Then after annealing, I'd do a thorough cleaning to take care of the oxidation before any further case prep.

 

[mcm308]

What is your goal? Whats not consistent? Primer pockets uniformed? Flash holes deburred? You say trim cases to 2.005 if needed but are they all equal length?

 

[Petrov]

Did you neck turn your brass? Is there an expander button in your sizing die?

 

[Rhed]

Deprime
Wet tumble
Anneal
Size
Trim
Debur/chamfer
Prime
Drop
Seat

 

[Carlos Danger]

De-prime
Vibrasonic clean
Oven dry
Light tumble with corn and light car polish
Anneal
Lube
FL size
Quick ultrasonic to remove lube
Oven dry
Trim
Debur / chamfer necks
Bronze brush necks
Prime, charge, seat

 

[bllistc]

What is your goal? Whats not consistent? Primer pockets uniformed? Flash holes deburred? You say trim cases to 2.005 if needed but are they all equal length?

SDs are usually around 15 for me but have been as high as 25 at times. I’d like to get it in the single digits. Occasionally, I’ll get groups on paper up to 1.5 MOA. I’m not an amazing shooter by any means but getting multiple groups like that when I know I applied the FOM right and got a good trigger pull makes me think it is because of my reloading process. I’ve been using a full length sizing die with expander ball and I recently read it can increase runout.

Primer pockets are deburred and all cases are 2.005 +/- 0.001”.

 

[bllistc]

Did you neck turn your brass? Is there an expander button in your sizing die?

I don’t neck turn yet but I’ve been looking into it. Might add that at some point. The full length Forster die I’ve been using up to now has the expander ball but I won’t be using the bushing die with the expander ball.

 

[Dthomas3523]

For me with fired brass (I neck turn virgin brass).

-Wipe off (have brass catcher so no dirt)
-Anneal with AMP
-Lube/size/decap (over size neck so I can use mandrel) usually a non bushing die without the expander ball will size neck down enough
-Use .002 under pin gauge to determine which mandrel to use for .002 (spring back varies)
-Mandrel
-Spot check every 10th or 20th case with pin gauge
-Trim/chamfer/deburr

The prime/powder/seat

I use a 21st century hydro press and a 21st century arbor press. The first 5-10 I use the hydro to see about where my seating pressure is. Then switch to the non hydro. It’s possible to blow a hose if your psi is too fast. At this point I want to turn and burn without having to make sure I don’t get a pressure spike. So I’ll go to non hydro, and unless something feels weird I’ll run every 10th or 20th round on hydro just to do spot QC check.

Wipe lube off or toss loaded rounds into media for a few.

 

[Petrov]

I don’t neck turn yet but I’ve been looking into it. Might add that at some point. The full length Forster die I’ve been using up to now has the expander ball but I won’t be using the bushing die with the expander ball.

So your necks are not perfectly even and when you use a bushing you push those imperfections in the inside where the bullet seats.
You can use whidden bushing does with custom sized expander button to work the brass a minimal amount.

 

[bllistc]

Hmm. I just looked at their site. Where do you find the custom expander? And this might be a stupid question but how would you decide what expander to use vs the standard one that comes with the die?

 

[straightshooter1]

Hmm. I just looked at their site. Where do you find the custom expander? And this might be a stupid question but how would you decide what expander to use vs the standard one that comes with the die?

Depends on the thickness of the neck walls of your particular brass and the amount of neck tension you're after. Just have to do a little math to figure which expander gives you the neck tension you want. Some people buy a set of pin gauges and use them for expanding.

 

[dzander]

just a fyi Lapua has small primer 308 brass. It may help you get more consistent velocities.
Not sure about that ,its been awhile since I loaded .308's But out of a Model 10 Savage with the small primer brass I got pretty tite groups.
Might be something to try.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hmm. I just looked at their site. Where do you find the custom expander? And this might be a stupid question but how would you decide what expander to use vs the standard one that comes with the die?

I get the 21st century mandrels. They come in .0005 increments. I get about a full .003 under in those increments.

I buy pin gauges off amazon (like $2 each). For whatever neck tension I want. So, if I want .002 on a 6mm I get a .241 pin. Or for .0015 I get a .2415.

Then I mess with mandrels and check with pin gauge. Currently I’m seeing about .001 spring back (and since using mandrel, the spring back goes inside). So I use a .242 mandrel to get a perfect fit on the .241 pin gauge.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

My process is...

Decap
Ultrasonic clean
Anneal
Lube/size
Dry tumble
Prime, powder, seat

I'm single digit SDs with ES of like 17 with 308 Jag brass, CCI primers IMR4064, using 175 Nosler CCs, SMKs, and 178 Hornady BTHP. That is with a Lee FL die or my Forster FL die. I seat with a Forster Micro seater.

It all shoots about half MOA in my factory Howa 1500.