- Thread starter Sniper King 2020
- Start date
Thank you. It's this kind of analysis that makes this such a great community. I only have two thoughts:
- Perhaps the sample size is a too small (this is easy to say when its somebody else burning their time and money on testing)
- I wonder if cumulative buildup in primer pockets (say 5 or more firings) would have had a more measurable effect? My thinking is that more crud would make it harder to ensure uniform primer seating depths and crush.
If you would have asked me before my testing I would have suggested a cleaning tool but now I can’t say that it’s worth it. I haven’t cleaned pockets since the test and I can’t tell any difference! A test is worth a thousand expert opinions! I love that saying…it’s on a sign in Lou Murdica’s tunnel.
1. Yes, it would be great to have massive resources to do this test with 50+ firings which is the brass life I can get out of a 0 free bore 6BR and 6PPC. I guess the safest interpretation would be that for 10 firings, you should be good without cleaning. You could be cautious and clean them after the 10th firing. Or, you can continue to not clean and observe if there is an obvious degradation of precision that is not accounted for by anything else and then clean them at that point to see if the precision comes back.
2. Yes, that is exactly what I thought going into this test but it appears that up to 10 firings, there is not enough degradation of precision to matter.
I thought that too especially after I started using a metal brush to clean pockets. I cleaned a set of brass with the metal brush for about 40 firings during one match season and then I measured all of the pockets to see if the wire brush made the pocket deeper and it didn’t. The pockets were the same size before and after 40 firings and cleanings. I applied light pressure when cleaning but I speculate that if you applied a lot of pressure and saw brass shavings after the cleaning that you would change the depth of the pocket.
I was actually thinking about the diameter in terms of hastening the stretching/loosening.
I use a power driven tool as opposed to a hand tool, so hence my concern. I think I’ll just stop cleaning the pockets now……
This is not the first time I have seen evidence that cleaning/not cleaning primer pockets made no difference...
But I can't NOT clean them. It's a compulsion at this point. Lol.
As far as brushing the pockets leading to loose pockets... I haven't seen it. I run the SS RCBS brush chucked in my lathe to clean them out... Some might say that's excessive... But loose pockets have not been an issue.
The only loose primer pockets I have dealt with were Federal brass... and a few others where I loaded hot and they were ruined.
But I heartily encourage folks to present any and all data when it comes to reloading.
Mike
Disclaimer: I haven't used any scientific methods to gauge whether or not primer pockets were loosening after cleaning... But to me it's kind of an, "If you know, you know" scenario. Purely anecdotal evidence. But I still have my face intact, so there's that.
But I can't NOT clean them. It's a compulsion at this point. Lol.
As far as brushing the pockets leading to loose pockets... I haven't seen it. I run the SS RCBS brush chucked in my lathe to clean them out... Some might say that's excessive... But loose pockets have not been an issue.
The only loose primer pockets I have dealt with were Federal brass... and a few others where I loaded hot and they were ruined.
But I heartily encourage folks to present any and all data when it comes to reloading.
Mike
Disclaimer: I haven't used any scientific methods to gauge whether or not primer pockets were loosening after cleaning... But to me it's kind of an, "If you know, you know" scenario. Purely anecdotal evidence. But I still have my face intact, so there's that.
I'm also using the RCBS brush, but in a cordless drill. While I don't go at it like I'm cleaning a head gasket off a SBC I do use some force.
My concern was I prime with a RCBS bench unit. If some pockets are dirty then others it stands to reason different amounts of force is needed to seat the primer. No?
Also is there any accurate way (less the Primal rights tool) to measure the depth of the primer.
Thanks and I'm enjoying your content!
My concern was I prime with a RCBS bench unit. If some pockets are dirty then others it stands to reason different amounts of force is needed to seat the primer. No?
Also is there any accurate way (less the Primal rights tool) to measure the depth of the primer.
Thanks and I'm enjoying your content!
My hypothesis is purely anecdotal conjecture and not based on data.
That said, I don’t think it is a stretch to wonder if grabbing brass by the necks and jamming them down on to a piece of spinning steel might impart a certain amount of stress via leverage et al. Thus, I started grabbing near the base allowing the neck of the brass to wobble free.
Further, I am not suggesting that this would loosen a pocket, in and of itself. Simply that my mental experiments and personal experience lead me wonder out loud, if this might add to the already cumulative affect.
The real point is, if cleaning pockets serves no purpose other than stroking an ocd ego, I can simply eliminate it. I don’t suffer that affliction.
That time is better spent shooting, which it appears, will undoubtedly yield better groups.
Can you put a link up to this tool? Thanks in advance
Replacement Brush For Primer Pocket Brush | RCBS
A build-up of residue in primer pockets can cause misfires. A couple of twists with the RCBS Primer Pocket Brush easily cleans out residue.
www.rcbs.com Yeah, this is one of those things where experience and judgment come into play as to whether it’s worth going down the rabbit hole to test. I used to clean with the RCBS brush too and was asked by a fellow BR shooter if I thought that it shaved off the ceiling part of the pocket. There was no concern for the pocket walls loosening things up because the tool gets the carbon off the ceiling, not the walls and I didn’t experience any unusual changes in seating force like you would when you blast a cartridge with a hot load. Anyway, I grabbed the brass that was fired about 40-60 times with the pockets cleaned after every firing with the RCBS brush and i ran the calipers into the pockets and they all measured to factory spec..I think .022 in 220 Russian Lapua brass. Like you mention, this isn’t the most controlled way of “testing” but I concluded based on my experience and this brief examination of the pockets that we were not digging into the ceiling of the brass. In my opinion, this is not something that I will spend time examining. I’d rather focus on the “big” variables so that I can understand the large effects in precision. Maybe when I retire, I will have time to delve into what I would consider the minutiae.
Thanks but I was referring to the Primal Rights tool to measure pocket depth. Sorry I was not clear.Replacement Brush For Primer Pocket Brush | RCBS
A build-up of residue in primer pockets can cause misfires. A couple of twists with the RCBS Primer Pocket Brush easily cleans out residue.
I use a large needle and use the 'pointy end' to flake crud out of the bottom corner. One swipe around and done.
Thanks! Tool looks great. Looks like you can measure faster with that tool relative to calipers and a modified Wilson case gauge micrometer.
Bryan, thanks for posting the video. Have read some statements that
have been made based on no more that empirical observation or someone said, rather than measured testing.
I will no longer make primer pocket cleaning a separate step in my reading process.
have been made based on no more that empirical observation or someone said, rather than measured testing.
I will no longer make primer pocket cleaning a separate step in my reading process.
