I recently had a rifle built using a schneider barrel on a remington action. the guy that built it is a friend of mine and said he had borrowed a chamber reamer from a guy and it was a close neck reamer. My problem is that the brass used to accomadate the chamber will not extract until fired and my brass is growing to 2.045 and shows pressure signs. But if I chamber a factory 308 round it is caught by the bolt and comes right out. I havent fired a factory round out of fear of my face getting shredded but am looking for advice. thankyou very much for the help.
Gunsmithing close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
- Thread starter kak88
- Start date
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
If the brass you are using is once fired from another rifle this could be causing you issue even with full length sizing. Set it aside and shoot fresh factory ammo or new virgin brass for that rifle only. The pressure signs could be because the load data you are using is too hot for that new barrel and chamber.
If this is the case and this is a new rifle, and it sounds like it is, you need to start fresh with a new reload formula for that rifle.
It could also be that your reloading procedure is a little off and the shoulder of that once fired brass needs to be bumped back.
You need to give more info on the re-loads and specifics on your set-up.
If the brass you are using is once fired from another rifle this could be causing you issue even with full length sizing. Set it aside and shoot fresh factory ammo or new virgin brass for that rifle only. The pressure signs could be because the load data you are using is too hot for that new barrel and chamber.
If this is the case and this is a new rifle, and it sounds like it is, you need to start fresh with a new reload formula for that rifle.
It could also be that your reloading procedure is a little off and the shoulder of that once fired brass needs to be bumped back.
You need to give more info on the re-loads and specifics on your set-up.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
First thing to do is find out the neck diameter of the reamer. Then measure the neck of a bunch your loaded rounds. You need at least .002" total clearance of your largest measured rounds, and .003" would be better. If you have less than this you need to either have your neck of your chamber opened up or you need to neck turn your brass for that ammount of clearance. If your having pressure and extraction peoblems do not shoot it anymore until you get this figured out! Tight neck chambers can be very dangerous if you don't have enough clearance. If the reamer really was a tight neck he should have stamped the neck diameter on the barrel.
First thing to do is find out the neck diameter of the reamer. Then measure the neck of a bunch your loaded rounds. You need at least .002" total clearance of your largest measured rounds, and .003" would be better. If you have less than this you need to either have your neck of your chamber opened up or you need to neck turn your brass for that ammount of clearance. If your having pressure and extraction peoblems do not shoot it anymore until you get this figured out! Tight neck chambers can be very dangerous if you don't have enough clearance. If the reamer really was a tight neck he should have stamped the neck diameter on the barrel.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
I was using virgin winchester match brass, and my load was 43.5 varget with 168 smk's. should have been well under max load. I have since tried to chamber the rounds in my other rifle and they extract fine. I am going to assume that the reason I am gettin the pressure signs is because the bolt does not have hold of the round until it is fired. thus kicking it onto the bolt face. only after the round is fired will it extract.
I was using virgin winchester match brass, and my load was 43.5 varget with 168 smk's. should have been well under max load. I have since tried to chamber the rounds in my other rifle and they extract fine. I am going to assume that the reason I am gettin the pressure signs is because the bolt does not have hold of the round until it is fired. thus kicking it onto the bolt face. only after the round is fired will it extract.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kak88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was using virgin winchester match brass, and my load was 43.5 varget with 168 smk's. should have been well under max load. I have since tried to chamber the rounds in my other rifle and they extract fine. <span style="font-weight: bold">I am going to assume that the reason I am gettin the pressure signs is because the bolt does not have hold of the round until it is fired. thus kicking it onto the bolt face. only after the round is fired will it extract.</span> </div></div>
That makes no sense. If the bolt closes on a loaded round then the bolt is doing its job, if not you have other issues.
You can't compare one rifle chamber with another, especially one cut with a match reamer.
Just because the loading book says it's under max load doesn’t mean it won't give you pressure signs.
If you are having problems extracting the fired case or having issues closing the bolt on virgin brass you either have hot loads for that chamber and or you have a tight match chamber.
You need to get the info on the reamer specs, especially if it is truly a tight neck reamer, and down load the powder charge and sneak up on the load for this rifle.
If you don't have a chrono you are handicapping yourself and don't rely on what the book says.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kak88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was using virgin winchester match brass, and my load was 43.5 varget with 168 smk's. should have been well under max load. I have since tried to chamber the rounds in my other rifle and they extract fine. <span style="font-weight: bold">I am going to assume that the reason I am gettin the pressure signs is because the bolt does not have hold of the round until it is fired. thus kicking it onto the bolt face. only after the round is fired will it extract.</span> </div></div>
That makes no sense. If the bolt closes on a loaded round then the bolt is doing its job, if not you have other issues.
You can't compare one rifle chamber with another, especially one cut with a match reamer.
Just because the loading book says it's under max load doesn’t mean it won't give you pressure signs.
If you are having problems extracting the fired case or having issues closing the bolt on virgin brass you either have hot loads for that chamber and or you have a tight match chamber.
You need to get the info on the reamer specs, especially if it is truly a tight neck reamer, and down load the powder charge and sneak up on the load for this rifle.
If you don't have a chrono you are handicapping yourself and don't rely on what the book says.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
the bolt is closing but not grabbing the round. The only rounds the rifle will eject unfired are factory size 308. think maybe the shoulder of chamber is too long and not letting the round stop in time to be grabbed by the extractor? then when fired the pressure pushes it onto the bolt?
the bolt is closing but not grabbing the round. The only rounds the rifle will eject unfired are factory size 308. think maybe the shoulder of chamber is too long and not letting the round stop in time to be grabbed by the extractor? then when fired the pressure pushes it onto the bolt?
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kak88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the bolt is closing but not grabbing the round. The only rounds the rifle will eject unfired are factory size 308. think maybe the shoulder of chamber is too long and not letting the round stop in time to be grabbed by the extractor? then when fired the pressure pushes it onto the bolt? </div></div>
Ok that makes a little more sense, you are having extraction issues caused by a possiable headspace issue. You could have a long headspace problem. You need to have that rifle checked before you do any more firing of live ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kak88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the bolt is closing but not grabbing the round. The only rounds the rifle will eject unfired are factory size 308. think maybe the shoulder of chamber is too long and not letting the round stop in time to be grabbed by the extractor? then when fired the pressure pushes it onto the bolt? </div></div>
Ok that makes a little more sense, you are having extraction issues caused by a possiable headspace issue. You could have a long headspace problem. You need to have that rifle checked before you do any more firing of live ammo.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
Your reloads may be too short in the shoulder giving you the excess headspace issue. You say that they are virgin brass...I suppose that means unfired factory brass. You assume that the brass is within specs...but you don't know. If you full length sized that virgin brass before loading it, you may have set the shoulder back too much for that particular chamber. You need both the rifle and the ammo checked for dimensions. JMHO
Your reloads may be too short in the shoulder giving you the excess headspace issue. You say that they are virgin brass...I suppose that means unfired factory brass. You assume that the brass is within specs...but you don't know. If you full length sized that virgin brass before loading it, you may have set the shoulder back too much for that particular chamber. You need both the rifle and the ammo checked for dimensions. JMHO
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
even my once fired brass will not work if I use my fl die set by the book. I have to back it off oppisite of the direction it says to get (once fired only) rounds to work. roughly quarter turn off shell holder. is this going to be a problem other than being a pain to fire form brass? I am going to try to fire form in another rifle then turn necks down and resize to said setting so they will work. does this sound reasonable?
even my once fired brass will not work if I use my fl die set by the book. I have to back it off oppisite of the direction it says to get (once fired only) rounds to work. roughly quarter turn off shell holder. is this going to be a problem other than being a pain to fire form brass? I am going to try to fire form in another rifle then turn necks down and resize to said setting so they will work. does this sound reasonable?
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
If the headspace is so long that when a case is chambered it does not get pushed into the bolt face I doubt it would even fire.
If the headspace is so long that when a case is chambered it does not get pushed into the bolt face I doubt it would even fire.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kak88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">even my once fired brass will not work if I use my fl die set by the book. I have to back it off oppisite of the direction it says to get (once fired only) rounds to work. roughly quarter turn off shell holder. is this going to be a problem other than being a pain to fire form brass? I am going to try to fire form in another rifle then turn necks down and resize to said setting so they will work. does this sound reasonable? </div></div>
No it doesn’t sound reasonable. You are doing too much dicking around with brass, working with more then one rifle, and loading technique trying to make it work.
You are asking more and more questions and none of us can see what you have or what you are doing. You need to have this rifle checked before you do anything questionable to your reloading to make things work in this one rifle, and you need the specs on the reamer the chamber was cut for.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kak88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">even my once fired brass will not work if I use my fl die set by the book. I have to back it off oppisite of the direction it says to get (once fired only) rounds to work. roughly quarter turn off shell holder. is this going to be a problem other than being a pain to fire form brass? I am going to try to fire form in another rifle then turn necks down and resize to said setting so they will work. does this sound reasonable? </div></div>
No it doesn’t sound reasonable. You are doing too much dicking around with brass, working with more then one rifle, and loading technique trying to make it work.
You are asking more and more questions and none of us can see what you have or what you are doing. You need to have this rifle checked before you do anything questionable to your reloading to make things work in this one rifle, and you need the specs on the reamer the chamber was cut for.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
HateCa you hurt his feelings and he posted again farther down with the same questions. I think he bumped the shoulder of the case back too far and the ejector holds the cartridge against the chamber shoulder just far enough out so the extractor won't engage the cannelure. If his resized cases won't engage and the factory loaded cases will, he has given himself excess headspace. The "tight neck" probably is a red herring in this mix since factory loaded ammo fits. I also think he needs to read up on what he is doing when he is "Adjusting the dies".
HateCa you hurt his feelings and he posted again farther down with the same questions. I think he bumped the shoulder of the case back too far and the ejector holds the cartridge against the chamber shoulder just far enough out so the extractor won't engage the cannelure. If his resized cases won't engage and the factory loaded cases will, he has given himself excess headspace. The "tight neck" probably is a red herring in this mix since factory loaded ammo fits. I also think he needs to read up on what he is doing when he is "Adjusting the dies".
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HateCa you hurt his feelings and he posted again farther down with the same questions. I think he bumped the shoulder of the case back too far and the ejector holds the cartridge against the chamber shoulder just far enough out so the extractor won't engage the cannelure. If his resized cases won't engage and the factory loaded cases will, he has given himself excess headspace. The "tight neck" probably is a red herring in this mix since factory loaded ammo fits. I also think he needs to read up on what he is doing when he is "Adjusting the dies". </div></div>
That could be but he says the re-loads chambers and extracts in other rifles and factory ammo loads and extracts in the new chamber, but the re-loaded brass won't work in the new chamber. I think there may be a few issues going on here and part of it is I don't think the OP has all the info to make a determination or give enough info on exactly what is going on, and is working in the dark a little bit. He needs to have someone check the rifle and look at his re-loading set up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HateCa you hurt his feelings and he posted again farther down with the same questions. I think he bumped the shoulder of the case back too far and the ejector holds the cartridge against the chamber shoulder just far enough out so the extractor won't engage the cannelure. If his resized cases won't engage and the factory loaded cases will, he has given himself excess headspace. The "tight neck" probably is a red herring in this mix since factory loaded ammo fits. I also think he needs to read up on what he is doing when he is "Adjusting the dies". </div></div>
That could be but he says the re-loads chambers and extracts in other rifles and factory ammo loads and extracts in the new chamber, but the re-loaded brass won't work in the new chamber. I think there may be a few issues going on here and part of it is I don't think the OP has all the info to make a determination or give enough info on exactly what is going on, and is working in the dark a little bit. He needs to have someone check the rifle and look at his re-loading set up.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
Exactly...HEY!!!not one of us has asked him about the extractor configuration. It could be that the only problem is with his extractor. Wouldn't we have egg on our faces if that were the only problem?
Exactly...HEY!!!not one of us has asked him about the extractor configuration. It could be that the only problem is with his extractor. Wouldn't we have egg on our faces if that were the only problem?
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
"Brass is growing to 2.045 and not working right."
Sounds long.
Have you tried go-no go headspace gauges?
New rig and load.
Are you using FL bushing type die?
Certain fl dies will take all dimensions down to min and make loose.
Try to set-up different dies for each gun.
Also, some brass may need more "prep work" than others.
Better to keep brass for each gun.
Trying to make work for all can lead to bad joo joo.
Many questions, just trying to help.
Try and figure it out one step at a time.
"Brass is growing to 2.045 and not working right."
Sounds long.
Have you tried go-no go headspace gauges?
New rig and load.
Are you using FL bushing type die?
Certain fl dies will take all dimensions down to min and make loose.
Try to set-up different dies for each gun.
Also, some brass may need more "prep work" than others.
Better to keep brass for each gun.
Trying to make work for all can lead to bad joo joo.
Many questions, just trying to help.
Try and figure it out one step at a time.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
TCA is right about bad jooooo...With a long chamber and short set dies the brass life will be extremely short also. Good brass now-a-days is expensive. A separate sizing die set up for each gun is a cheap investment over the life of a $600 barrel and the brass and bullets to shoot it out. JMHO
TCA is right about bad jooooo...With a long chamber and short set dies the brass life will be extremely short also. Good brass now-a-days is expensive. A separate sizing die set up for each gun is a cheap investment over the life of a $600 barrel and the brass and bullets to shoot it out. JMHO
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
I dicked with the rifle again yesterday and tried a bunch of different things turning neck farther etc. almost acts like the round is sticking at times. bout to give up on it gonna take it somewhere. also i was premature in saying a factory size round would work,apparently I grabbed the only reload I have that the neck has thinned enough to fit. I guess I have loaded it enough times that it has thinned out. and as far as setting my die I think I have that under control former naval person. I might be a hillbilly but I am capable of reading instruction. lol.
I dicked with the rifle again yesterday and tried a bunch of different things turning neck farther etc. almost acts like the round is sticking at times. bout to give up on it gonna take it somewhere. also i was premature in saying a factory size round would work,apparently I grabbed the only reload I have that the neck has thinned enough to fit. I guess I have loaded it enough times that it has thinned out. and as far as setting my die I think I have that under control former naval person. I might be a hillbilly but I am capable of reading instruction. lol.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
You can go to Brownells and get some low melting point metal and do a chamber cast and verify the neck. Or find the reamer and measure it.
You can go to Brownells and get some low melting point metal and do a chamber cast and verify the neck. Or find the reamer and measure it.
Re: close neck 308 extractor problems. Help!
I am to the point that I think I am going to get the barrel rechambered with a reamer that will allow me to use factory rounds if I want. Be alot less hassle that way. unless a good smith finds that there is an easy fix.
I am to the point that I think I am going to get the barrel rechambered with a reamer that will allow me to use factory rounds if I want. Be alot less hassle that way. unless a good smith finds that there is an easy fix.
