This is the first time I have gone the NFA route. When you go to pick up your can or cans, do you still have to go through the stupid CO background check and pay the additional $10 fee that is in effect? Or do simply show the stamps and leave.
Suppressors Colorado question on tax stamp/background check $10
- Thread starter trav_o
- Start date
I believe that for a NFA purchase in your own name, you will not need to go through the background check. NFA already performed one on you during the approval process. However, if you purchased as a trust (or LLC?), then the trustee would be required to go through the background check before being able to take possession for the trust.
The answer is yes, you are required to get a background check.
Colorado statutes define a "firearm" for the purposes of the background check requirement by reference to 18 U.S.C. § 921 (a) (3) (C), which classifies "silencers" as "firearms" in federal law.
"CRS 24-33.5-424. National instant criminal background check system - state point of contact - grounds for denial of firearm transfer - appeal - rule-making - unlawful acts
(1) For purposes of this section:
(a) "18 U.S.C. sec. 922 (t)" means 18 U.S.C. sec. 922 (t) as it exists as of March 7, 2000, or as it may be amended.
(b) "Firearm" has the same meaning as set forth in 18 U.S.C. sec. 921 (a) (3), as amended."
18 U.S.C. § 921 (a) (3)
(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
an antique firearm.
And there is another hidden danger for silencer and SBS, SBR and machine gun owners in Colorado:
"18-12-102. Possessing a dangerous or illegal weapon - affirmative defense
(1) As used in this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means a firearm silencer, machine gun, short shotgun, short rifle, or ballistic knife.
(2) As used in this section, the term "illegal weapon" means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife, or switchblade knife.
(3) A person who knowingly possesses a dangerous weapon commits a class 5 felony. Each subsequent violation of this subsection (3) by the same person shall be a class 4 felony.
(4) A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a class 1 misdemeanor.
(5) IT SHALL BE AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon."
In Colorado suppressors, machine guns, SBS and SBRs are all classified as "dangerous weapons."
The capitalized words in section (5) are the danger.
An "affirmative defense" in Colorado law means that the act proscribed is technically a crime, but that IN COURT upon presentation of an affirmative defense (and the requisite proofs), the judge is required to dismiss the charges.
However, for the cop on the street, it's still a crime for which they can ARREST you and take you to jail, charge you, force you to post bond, and appear in court...where the charges will be dismissed. But you can end up spending the weekend (or more) in jail, particularly if a hostile DA (like Denver and Boulder) decide to hammer you and petition to deny bail.
Also, your NFA item will be seized and put into evidence, where it will stay until ALL opportunities for appeal, on both the part of the defendant and the prosecution, are exhausted, and even then you have to go to court many times to get a court order to return the item. Police agencies hostile to NFA rights have been know to "lose" silencers and other NFA items in their property system, and they not infrequently end up with the SWAT team. Police will also obstruct your attempts to get your legal NFA weapons back many times, depending on the jurisdiction.
In most places in Colorado you're safe if you have a photocopy of your NFA paperwork with you, but there are places which are notorious for taking it to the max, particularly Denver.
The real kicker is that the law specifies that the possessor of a "dangerous weapon" must have "valid permit and license for possession of such weapon."
Colorado has no law establishing a licensing or permitting system for "dangerous weapons." Now in most cases law enforcement and the courts appear to recognized the NFA paperwork as the functional equivalent of a "permit and license" but it's an open question whether a hostile DA might decide to make an issue of the fact that the NFA paperwork is nothing more than evidence that the required tax has been paid.
I don't think there's much danger in reality, except in situations where LE or the DA are hostile to NFA items, but it's worth noting.
For this reason, I think it's prudent to ALWAYS have at least a photocopy (I'm going to laminate mine...and I was just thinking of having an image of it engraved on the tube by laser...) with the NFA item at all times. Because while it is true that as a tax document you are not required to show it to local LE, under Colorado law that will probably just get you arrested because of the "it's a crime with an affirmative defense" structure of the law. You can be arrested even if you DO show them the paperwork, and it's entirely LEGAL for the cop to do so, so don't argue with him or resist him if he decides to run you through the mill because you WILL LOSE that battle and just get extra charges piled on...like resisting arrest.
Colorado's concealed carry law used to have this "affirmative defense" language before the revisions and "shall issue" law was enacted, and it was not at all unusual for CCW permittees to be arrested in Denver for illegal CCW, only to be released at arraignment. The DPD actually had the gall one time to arrest two off-duty State Patrol officers for CCW. This precipitated a bit of a war between DPD and the State Patrol until it was resolved by the higher-ups. At that time the ID for the State Patrol did not EXPLICITLY say that it served as a CCW permit, which is what DPD used as an excuse to invoke the law.
So the advice for NFA owners in Colorado is a) be really, really nice and professional if questioned by a cop; b) stay the hell OUT of Denver with your NFA items; c) don't resist an arrest; and d) get with your state legislators and demand a change to the law so that it says "it shall not be an offense under this section if the person has a valid NFA registration and tax stamp OR ACCURATE FACSIMILE THEREOF in his possession when in possession of a dangerous weapon and presents said documents upon the demand of a peace officer."
That's my non-lawyer's non-professional ex-cop's advice. And it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
Colorado statutes define a "firearm" for the purposes of the background check requirement by reference to 18 U.S.C. § 921 (a) (3) (C), which classifies "silencers" as "firearms" in federal law.
"CRS 24-33.5-424. National instant criminal background check system - state point of contact - grounds for denial of firearm transfer - appeal - rule-making - unlawful acts
(1) For purposes of this section:
(a) "18 U.S.C. sec. 922 (t)" means 18 U.S.C. sec. 922 (t) as it exists as of March 7, 2000, or as it may be amended.
(b) "Firearm" has the same meaning as set forth in 18 U.S.C. sec. 921 (a) (3), as amended."
18 U.S.C. § 921 (a) (3)
(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
an antique firearm.
And there is another hidden danger for silencer and SBS, SBR and machine gun owners in Colorado:
"18-12-102. Possessing a dangerous or illegal weapon - affirmative defense
(1) As used in this section, the term "dangerous weapon" means a firearm silencer, machine gun, short shotgun, short rifle, or ballistic knife.
(2) As used in this section, the term "illegal weapon" means a blackjack, gas gun, metallic knuckles, gravity knife, or switchblade knife.
(3) A person who knowingly possesses a dangerous weapon commits a class 5 felony. Each subsequent violation of this subsection (3) by the same person shall be a class 4 felony.
(4) A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a class 1 misdemeanor.
(5) IT SHALL BE AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon."
In Colorado suppressors, machine guns, SBS and SBRs are all classified as "dangerous weapons."
The capitalized words in section (5) are the danger.
An "affirmative defense" in Colorado law means that the act proscribed is technically a crime, but that IN COURT upon presentation of an affirmative defense (and the requisite proofs), the judge is required to dismiss the charges.
However, for the cop on the street, it's still a crime for which they can ARREST you and take you to jail, charge you, force you to post bond, and appear in court...where the charges will be dismissed. But you can end up spending the weekend (or more) in jail, particularly if a hostile DA (like Denver and Boulder) decide to hammer you and petition to deny bail.
Also, your NFA item will be seized and put into evidence, where it will stay until ALL opportunities for appeal, on both the part of the defendant and the prosecution, are exhausted, and even then you have to go to court many times to get a court order to return the item. Police agencies hostile to NFA rights have been know to "lose" silencers and other NFA items in their property system, and they not infrequently end up with the SWAT team. Police will also obstruct your attempts to get your legal NFA weapons back many times, depending on the jurisdiction.
In most places in Colorado you're safe if you have a photocopy of your NFA paperwork with you, but there are places which are notorious for taking it to the max, particularly Denver.
The real kicker is that the law specifies that the possessor of a "dangerous weapon" must have "valid permit and license for possession of such weapon."
Colorado has no law establishing a licensing or permitting system for "dangerous weapons." Now in most cases law enforcement and the courts appear to recognized the NFA paperwork as the functional equivalent of a "permit and license" but it's an open question whether a hostile DA might decide to make an issue of the fact that the NFA paperwork is nothing more than evidence that the required tax has been paid.
I don't think there's much danger in reality, except in situations where LE or the DA are hostile to NFA items, but it's worth noting.
For this reason, I think it's prudent to ALWAYS have at least a photocopy (I'm going to laminate mine...and I was just thinking of having an image of it engraved on the tube by laser...) with the NFA item at all times. Because while it is true that as a tax document you are not required to show it to local LE, under Colorado law that will probably just get you arrested because of the "it's a crime with an affirmative defense" structure of the law. You can be arrested even if you DO show them the paperwork, and it's entirely LEGAL for the cop to do so, so don't argue with him or resist him if he decides to run you through the mill because you WILL LOSE that battle and just get extra charges piled on...like resisting arrest.
Colorado's concealed carry law used to have this "affirmative defense" language before the revisions and "shall issue" law was enacted, and it was not at all unusual for CCW permittees to be arrested in Denver for illegal CCW, only to be released at arraignment. The DPD actually had the gall one time to arrest two off-duty State Patrol officers for CCW. This precipitated a bit of a war between DPD and the State Patrol until it was resolved by the higher-ups. At that time the ID for the State Patrol did not EXPLICITLY say that it served as a CCW permit, which is what DPD used as an excuse to invoke the law.
So the advice for NFA owners in Colorado is a) be really, really nice and professional if questioned by a cop; b) stay the hell OUT of Denver with your NFA items; c) don't resist an arrest; and d) get with your state legislators and demand a change to the law so that it says "it shall not be an offense under this section if the person has a valid NFA registration and tax stamp OR ACCURATE FACSIMILE THEREOF in his possession when in possession of a dangerous weapon and presents said documents upon the demand of a peace officer."
That's my non-lawyer's non-professional ex-cop's advice. And it's worth exactly what you paid for it.
Sounds complicated, just move to AZ!
Too fricking hot in the summer. Nice in the winter though. I'm thinking of Snowbirding it to get some trigger time this winter.
Ahhhh, the outsiders view of AZ... hot its not! Except for the evil places below 5000ft. Just a swag, but half of AZ is above 6000ft. I am way down south at 5200ft and we are 15-20 degrees cooler than Phoenix and 10-15 degrees cooler than Tucson most of the time. The northern half of the state is almost all about 7000ft. Our climate is quite similar to the CO front range. I lived in the Springs for some time and have good comparative experiences. I will go as far as saying that the hunting and shooting out here beats CO. Ewwh, I said it. Minus the big mountain beauty, AZ is nice.
This sounds like you speak from experience. I appreciate this info and do try to avoid Denver as much as possible. From the look of things on The FORM 4 wait times thread I will be getting my stamps some time next year. I submitted the back in April. Some great FYI! Thanks. If your ever down here in Chaffee County Look me up.
Well, yes, there is that...but Flagstaff, Sedona and the like, up where the country is really pretty is so damned expensive these days.
Used to be a cop, and I keep track of this subject as a journalist. It's way better since the shall issue law came in, but you still can't own an "assault weapon" if you're a resident of Denver County or the City of Denver.
Our idiot Supreme Court decided that "home rule status" trumps the state Constitution when it comes to Denver.
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